The role of Women in D&D (opinions wanted)

[ripx187]

So, there is this article written by Cecilia D'Anastasio. I thought that she was just another blogger, but I guess that I was wrong. I was talking to my family about an article that she had posted up, and how others have reacted to it, but my oldest son automatically knew who she was. It caught me off guard as he doesn't play. It also disturbed me as apparently she is a big deal. She is one of those Pop Culture "Journalists", she is put on panels to discuss games and claims to be an expert of the cultures which suround them. People also listen to what she has to say, which is horrifying. She is one of those, to use a radio term, Shock Jocks.

This isn't the first time that I have seen her pop up on my feed. She is a strange case, she claims to be a player of D&D, yet also says that D&D is a mens club full of rapists, pornography, and racism and has elected herself to be the voice of reason. This was fine when I thought that she was just another blogger, but now that I know her actual position on the totem pole, it puts her body of work into a new light, and also answers some of the questions about the bizarre opinions I've recieved on other forms of social media in the last few years.

Dungeons & Dragons Wouldn’t Be What It Is Today Without These Women

This article, if one removes the personal digs and the generalizing, is otherwise a great read! There were things in here that I had never known before. I believe that she interviewed these people, but she may have just collected quotes from other sources, I don't know. It is a very small, and select sampling of women who were involved in D&D early on.

Of great interest to me was more information about the Greyhawk Setting map, which was no doubt the greatest product that TSR ever put out. It was beautiful! The quality of the map was incredible, printed on vinyl which has put up with spills, and abuse for ages and still pretty enough to hang on the wall! I, like many Dungeon Masters, love maps, and I can't think of a single one which is as sought after and dearly loved as Darlene's map.

What I found shocking was the general opinion of the ladies who are in this piece. Is this spun? Are these quotes that have been taken out of context? I don't know.

My wife and I had a very lengthy discussion about D&D and the culture which surrounds it, her folks had caught the bug back in the 70's and would host huge regular sessions. We are the custodians of many of the relics, we have character sheets and a large collection of beautifully painted miniatures which we proudly display in a china cabinet in our livingroom. We also have their original books which we fuss over and protect. My Mother-in-law was just as caught up in the bug as my father-in-law. Women did play those games, and they enjoyed them.

I think that the biggest problem that D'Anastasio has is her age, like many people she tries to apply todays rules to the past. She has no idea that Gygax, and D&D are products of the 50s and 60s, not the 70s when they were published. There were gender roles, and they were enforced by both men and women. Not to say that there was no arm-candy back then, but I've got to tell you, the toughest woman that I ever knew was my grandmother. Soft women had no place on the farm, she had to be strong, independant, and was the moral compass of our family, D'Anastasio and her would not had gotten along at all! D'Anastasio's low opinion of women is something that turns me off of her writing. I digress, to get back on point, my wife suggested that I bring this article to the attention of you fine people, she and I are interested in what you have to say.

At my own table, women are welcome. I don't like girlfriends at the game, there is a difference. Currently, the men do out number the women, but they hold their own. Besides my wife there are two other women who are regulars, but there have always been women at the table. We play a team based game, and women process things differently than men do, they take the story into different places. I wouldn't want to play a men's only game, and it has nothing to do with sex; it never did. A great player is a great player.

That said, I do utilize adult themes, and I want the players to feel things. If the game calls for it, I do try to make the players uncomfortable. I want you to hate my villains, they aren't nice people; I don't want you to hate me! But imersion is the point, isn't it? We don't focus on mechanics and rules, and I'll play dirty pool, if I know that you have a problem with spiders, I'm using that. That is part of the game.

Anyway, I'm out of time to elaborate further, but I am interested if there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. What role to women play in the game. Is it sexist to play a Conan like character? Who were some women that you feel brought elements to the game which helped you define what it is?

[captaincrumbcake]

This is a difficult topic for me to comment on in as brief a manner as I prefer, without sounding flippant. But, for me, I don't really care about what any particular person of, or a, group that has a clear and contrasting agenda to my own, thinks or has anything to say about anything I enjoy or do; that includes games.

So with that up front, for everyone to see where I am and where I'm coming from, I'll briefly conclude.


The role of women in D&D. What is it? In regards to the making of it? That's in the record, somewhere. 

Anyway, I'm out of time to elaborate further, but I am interested if there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. What role to women play in the game. Is it sexist to play a Conan like character? Who were some women that you feel brought elements to the game which helped you define what it is?

The line that shouldn't be crossed is to put things in one's campaign/game/adventure solely for the purpose of making your player/s feel uncomfortable. Slavery, slave-trade, human traffiking, Racism, Sexism, ism, ism, isms, have existed throughout the history of Mankind. If they exist in your world for no reason except to discomfort others, you're running a lousy game.

What role do they (women) play in the game? That's vague. What role do males play? Town drunk, blind cripple, beggar, leper, murderer, thief, village idiot, bully, pimp, drug dealer...etc. A lot of unsavory roles that no one seems to give a squawk about. The roles the players take within the construct of their characters is for them to decide. Everything else is for the referee, and should have a reason for being, it there at all.

Is it sexist to play a Conan like character? Try allowing female players to run a Bayonetta like character in your game and watch the responses. 

As to the last question. Possibly Mary Shelly.

[xizallian]

This is a joke, how does someone so steeped in ignorance become an "expert". She doesn't know enough about D&D to even know that Kim Mohan is one of those old guys she hates so much. Sorry, I'm normal, I like men, especially my husband, I guess that disqualifies my having an opinion according to people like her. 

I do not believe that she plays D&D or if she has, she needs to find some new friends to play with. But at least we blonds now have proof that brunettes can be airheads too!

I have never encountered any issues as a woman who plays D&D. Of course the women in my family were not raised to put up with being treated like that in the first place or to have anything to do with men who want to treat women like that. There is nothing wrong with looking your best, although I would never doll myself up for a D&D game, there is a time and place for most things. I won't bother wasting my time reading anything else by this "expert."

[scottanderson]

This - the Marxist deconstruction of the hobby on the basis of biology - is a divisive and dangerous idea meant to destroy the hobby.

[Mighty Darci]

I ignore people who can't get basic facts right. Pop Culture "Journalists" are to be ignored the same way all inflated ego closed minded know-it-all's are to be ignored. I know of her and have long ignored her. If you are going to publish articles that purport to be serious journalism you should start by doing the research, which she obviously did not. As xizallian said, if you think " D&D is a mens club full of rapists, pornography, and racism" then you need to find a new group to play with and choose your friends more wisely.

[scottanderson]

Journalists as a profession are very bad, very dumb people. Whenever you read a story by a journalist about a subject you know a lot about, the journalist will seem uninformed and stupid. It will be obvious they got everything wrong in the story. Just about every time.

So you can safely assume that on topics you don't know as much about, they probably got everything wrong as well.

[bravewolf]

Cecilia,
You're breakin' my heart
You're shaking my confidence daily...

^^

[Admin Pete]

I don't really have anything much to add to what xizallian and Mighty Darci said. That pretty much covers it from A to Z. What little I do have to add is one it is not really an age thing, it is an upbringing thing. Obviously there are young people that have made an effort to understand things in context which would include their parents and grandparents generation. Putting things in the relevant context is something that is taught/learned.

The second is this on the subject of what you play. IMO it is not sexist to play a Conan type, especially if you understand Conan and his character. I know nothing about Bayonetta and a quick Google did not tell me much. Generally you can play what you want. Just don't be a jerk. Don't game with jerks. I don't play with racists, I really don't know anyone like that these days that I can think of, definitely not among my friends. No one ever brings pornography into any game I have been a part of and what people do behind closed doors is their business and there is no rape in my game and I wouldn't game with someone who tried to do that in game.

What your game includes beyond the above really has to do with people's personal boundaries. For many their are things you talk about with your spouse or with your best friend, but you have no interest in bringing those subjects in your game with your broader circle of friends. From posts I have seen various places, some people's personal boundaries are a lot different from mine and most of the people I have played OD&D with over the years. So on many things of what your game looks like YMMV, this is not a one size fits all hobby.

Edit: I will add one thing, I have read a few other response articles and they did mention a lot of women that were involved in early D&D that the above referenced article did not mention and of course they knew who Kim Mohan is.

[ripx187]

I think that there is some validity to the subject that she is writing about, but because of her personal arrogance, she can't write about it and be taken seriously. I'm sure that professional women within the industry did get the shaft, but that may have been due to standard office politics of the era.

As far as private games go, they are all different. All players are different too, but there are risks that we take. These risks apply not just to women, but to the younger crowd as well. People can take advantage of others, and I do believe that we do a terrible job of policing ourselves. We aren't exempt from predators, and while I know that there are a lot of decent people who won't sit idle while somebody is getting worked over . . . but there are too many in this hobby that will do anything to avoid confrontation and just do nothing.

The role of women in gaming goes beyond characters. They are leaders, innovators, muses, artists. Are they properly recognized? I think that they are now, however, if they were properly compensated for their efforts is a different subject altogether.

It does feel that men have an easier time getting new ideas accepted and that women either take supportive roles or are forced to stay in them. I think that the greatest influence that women have had on my game personally, is in regards to story. I've pulled back on story-based gaming, but it has been said over and over again that the players (both male & female) want to know that this is going some place. They like reoccurring characters, they like slippery villains, they like having things going on in the background. They like long-term story arcs, and being able to walk around in a storybook world which reacts to them.

This, I have found, can be accomplished without forcing the players to play a linear story. I know that many DMs have a hard time grasping these theories, they translate into terrible modules, but the idea isn't creating a scripted game, the idea is to have a script running in the background which must be written and rewritten as the game progresses. My players love to be challenged by a railroad designed into the game, and it is their job to get off the tracks.

Some can credit other sources for the interactive story, but to me personally, it was Laura Hickman. She is co-credited with her husband, Tracy, but it was this format which got me started. The modules required a lot of cooperation from the players, but the principles, once separated and broken down into their basic components, showed a very advanced approach to game design and theory. Not settling for JUST Dungeons & Dragons, but constantly redefining it, and molding it to fit a larger vision. Creating worlds where there is something going on, a meta-plot which stays in the background. Defined objects that have meaning and history.

Laura taught me the joy of background. She gave me the courage to redefine old ideas and not be afraid to put elements of myself into the mix. It has taken a long time to find a good combination of old and new, but the effect that it has on the game is amazingly satisfying for everyone. I think that it is a warmer, and more personal game than just enforcing the same rules all the time.

My wife yells at me when I stray too far from this path. She reminds me that she and the other players can go anywhere to play Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, it is my mind that everybody enjoys crawling around in. The men who play are of the same opinion, but we don't talk to each other like that.

Perhaps it wasn't Laura who started me on this path, she just gave me something solid that I could study. It was the DM who was my best friend and years later would become my wife that taught me this lesson. She would run games with no Boxed-Setting, and only the memories of the world that she had played in when she was a little girl to guide her. Her games were way more advanced and personal than the rest of the club members. It went beyond just exploring castles and dungeons, there was stuff going on, she would beat us up and we'd have to crawl our way back up from the agony of defeat. NOBODY was doing that at the time. The YOU WIN! Games had already taken hold. She could infuriate you, but you never felt discouraged. This came naturally to her. Me? Not so much. Adding emotional and psychological elements into the game without causing harm, that is a skill them men (or at least I) had to develop over time.

Emotion. That is the magic element right there. Tragic villains with motivations beyond just because they are evil. NPCs with nuanced emotional ranges beyond those found in the average cocktail weenie. These are elements which I learned from playing under and developing games for female players. I don't think that I would have ever gotten there by just running games for a group of guys, and the guys who do learn to play this style have a very difficult time going back.

[Gene M.]

My group is composed of five women and three men. Age range is from mid-20s up to 40. The women find things like the amazon in Men & Magic and the cover of the Ready Ref Sheets charmingly 70s but not offensive in any way. What (for example) Gygax may have thought of women never comes into our gaming sessions, and I don't see how it could or why it should. Politically some of us are left-wing but none of that really pertains to playing D&D. I think we all have enough of a sense of humor and perspective not to go apoplectic at something being from the 1970s.

I'm interested in politics but have never found a need to bring that into D&D. I'm happy to talk about D&D and game with people of many different stripes so long as everybody is polite. I mean, somebody I agreed with 100% on politics but who was lousy to other people at the table wouldn't be welcome either. The point is to have fun. If I want to do politics, I'll go to a meeting or something. I think people tend to blow the political implications of cultural products way out of proportion.

[Admin Pete]

Jul 2, 2017 13:28:09 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

Snipped for largely in agreement.

Jul 2, 2017 13:28:09 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

 I think that the greatest influence that women have had on my game personally, is in regards to story. I've pulled back on story-based gaming, but it has been said over and over again that the players (both male & female) want to know that this is going some place. They like reoccurring characters, they like slippery villains, they like having things going on in the background. They like long-term story arcs, and being able to walk around in a storybook world which reacts to them.

This, I have found, can be accomplished without forcing the players to play a linear story. I know that many DMs have a hard time grasping these theories, they translate into terrible modules, but the idea isn't creating a scripted game, the idea is to have a script running in the background which must be written and rewritten as the game progresses. My players love to be challenged by a railroad designed into the game, and it is their job to get off the tracks.

I here want to note that I think I have now grasped some confusion that has existed for a long time.

A living campaign world with "hooks" (opportunities for adventure) everywhere, with recurring NPC's, slippery, crafty villains, lots of stuff going on all around them, the thing that generates all the rumors they hear from other places, all the things that make is living is a sandbox in its purest and best realized form. There is no railroad at all by design. The options the players have is very broad and are only narrowed by decisions that they make. People in general seem to have no understanding of what a sandbox is and don't give sandboxes the credit they deserve.

A story game is completely linear and completely scripted and exists only as a railroad and their is no way off the railroad ever. The things your players say that they like are not possible in a story game, they are only possible in a sandbox. In story games there are no decisions to make, once the players are allowed to make decisions it ceases to be a story game.

Long-term story arcs are what exists in novels, in a sandbox those are not story arcs they are the living breathing world where everyone including the NPC's are making decisions not following a script. A storybook world cannot react to the players, a living sandbox world can react to the players. The challenge for players is when they make decisions that don't work at so well, they make new and better decisions going forward - that is what getting off the tracks their decisions created (not the ref) and moving forward is. That is the challenge your players love. A living sandbox continuously reacts to every thing, it is not a case of written and re-written, it is time moving forward as it does in the real world without any script. A sandbox does go someplace, but it is the interaction between the players and the sandbox that takes it someplace, and there are infinite possible outcomes. In a story game only one outcome exists. If multiple outcomes are possible you have deviated from a story game.

Jul 2, 2017 13:28:09 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

Adding emotional and psychological elements into the game without causing harm, that is a skill them men (or at least I) had to develop over time.

Emotion. That is the magic element right there. Tragic villains with motivations beyond just because they are evil. NPC's with nuanced emotional ranges beyond those found in the average cocktail weenie. These are elements which I learned from playing under and developing games for female players. I don't think that I would have ever gotten there by just running games for a group of guys, and the guys who do learn to play this style have a very difficult time going back.

You are talking here about a living world, a pure sandbox. I have never played or reffed without women in the game. One of the most fun adventures I ever ran had no treasure and was entirely emotional and psychological from beginning to end. The players unanimously agreed that treasure would have ruined it.

[Admin Pete]

Jul 2, 2017 19:12:02 GMT -5 Gene M. said:

My group is composed of five women and three men. Age range is from mid-20s up to 40. The women find things like the amazon in Men & Magic and the cover of the Ready Ref Sheets charmingly 70s but not offensive in any way. What (for example) Gygax may have thought of women never comes into our gaming sessions, and I don't see how it could or why it should. Politically some of us are left-wing but none of that really pertains to playing D&D. I think we all have enough of a sense of humor and perspective not to go apoplectic at something being from the 1970s.

I'm interested in politics but have never found a need to bring that into D&D. I'm happy to talk about D&D and game with people of many different stripes so long as everybody is polite. I mean, somebody I agreed with 100% on politics but who was lousy to other people at the table wouldn't be welcome either. The point is to have fun. If I want to do politics, I'll go to a meeting or something. I think people tend to blow the political implications of cultural products way out of proportion.

This is great, and very on point.  Might we entice you to share about your game down in the campaigns forum (not required) we love to hear about people campaigns. Have an Exalt!

[robkuntz]

Jun 30, 2017 19:24:12 GMT -5 xizallian said:

This is a joke, how does someone so steeped in ignorance become an "expert". She doesn't know enough about D&D to even know that Kim Mohan is one of those old guys she hates so much. Sorry, I'm normal, I like men, especially my husband, I guess that disqualifies my having an opinion according to people like her. 

I do not believe that she plays D&D or if she has, she needs to find some new friends to play with. But at least we blonds now have proof that brunettes can be airheads too!

I have never encountered any issues as a woman who plays D&D. Of course the women in my family were not raised to put up with being treated like that in the first place or to have anything to do with men who want to treat women like that. There is nothing wrong with looking your best, although I would never doll myself up for a D&D game, there is a time and place for most things. I won't bother wasting my time reading anything else by this "expert."

I have to agree.  The author's POV is about her ideology.  Next she'll be condemning the old model train collectors of the day (and now, hey Gronan!?) as being misogynistic! Or football, baseball, et al. Wargames had even fewer women participants.  Why?  For the vary fact that the majority of women did not like, back then, playing with little toy soldiers.  I used to get that myself at 13 years of age.  Girlfriends would ring me at home hoping to get me to the YMCA dances (an excuse/cover to go outside on the nearby railroad tracks and neck).  I would say that I couldn't come as I had this game to go to at Gary's.  Game?  Over them?? They were astounded and disappointed but when I invited one to a game she declined.  Girls can be as literal-minded about their wants as boys are, you see.  It's not about feminism or chauvanism, it's about different interests and interest levels that seem natural to the genders.

[captaincrumbcake]

Rob--

I used to get that myself at 13 years of age. Girlfriends would ring me at home hoping to get me to the YMCA dances (an excuse/cover to go outside on the nearby railroad tracks and neck). I would say that I couldn't come as I had this game to go to at Gary's. Game? Over them?? They were astounded and disappointed
....

at 13? Invited to necking sessions by girls...and you turned them down?

Were you a MGTOW ahead of the times? 

[robkuntz]

Jul 3, 2017 9:52:58 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Rob--

I used to get that myself at 13 years of age. Girlfriends would ring me at home hoping to get me to the YMCA dances (an excuse/cover to go outside on the nearby railroad tracks and neck). I would say that I couldn't come as I had this game to go to at Gary's. Game? Over them?? They were astounded and disappointed
....

at 13? Invited to necking sessions by girls...and you turned them down?

Were you a MGTOW ahead of the times? 

I had no problem since second grade with girls, they were aways chasing after me, it seems.

[captaincrumbcake]

Jul 3, 2017 10:39:56 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

Jul 3, 2017 9:52:58 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Rob--


at 13? Invited to necking sessions by girls...and you turned them down?

Were you a MGTOW ahead of the times? 

I had no problem since second grade with girls, they were aways chasing after me, it seems.

Big feet, huh?

[robkuntz]

Jul 3, 2017 20:00:43 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Jul 3, 2017 10:39:56 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

I had no problem since second grade with girls, they were aways chasing after me, it seems.

Big feet, huh?

Hmm.  A little OT don't you think??

[mormonyoyoman]

Jul 3, 2017 9:52:58 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Rob--

I used to get that myself at 13 years of age. Girlfriends would ring me at home hoping to get me to the YMCA dances (an excuse/cover to go outside on the nearby railroad tracks and neck). I would say that I couldn't come as I had this game to go to at Gary's. Game? Over them?? They were astounded and disappointed
....

at 13? Invited to necking sessions by girls...and you turned them down?

Were you a MGTOW ahead of the times? 

I fail to understand what MonGoose Traveller Off-World has to do with Yaquinto's Mythology Close Assault dances?

[Admin Pete]

Jul 4, 2017 9:12:56 GMT -5 mormonyoyoman said:

Jul 3, 2017 9:52:58 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Rob--


at 13? Invited to necking sessions by girls...and you turned them down?

Were you a MGTOW ahead of the times? 

I fail to understand what MonGoose Traveller Off-World has to do with Yaquinto's Mythology Close Assault dances?

As do we all, as do we all!

[captaincrumbcake]

Jul 4, 2017 8:38:10 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

Jul 3, 2017 20:00:43 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Big feet, huh?

Hmm.  A little OT don't you think??

Of course. What would a controversial thread be without a derailing?

But, seriously, you were the one that brought up teenage girls, necking and whotnot. So, if I'm going down in flames, you ain't gettin out of this! 

[Admin Pete]

Jul 4, 2017 11:25:22 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Jul 4, 2017 8:38:10 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

Hmm.  A little OT don't you think??

Of course. What would a controversial thread be without a derailing?

But, seriously, you were the one that brought up teenage girls, necking and whotnot. So, if I'm going down in flames, you ain't gettin out of this! 

Thanks for the suggestion, that will be two demerits for each of you!

[robkuntz]

Jul 4, 2017 11:25:22 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

Jul 4, 2017 8:38:10 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

Hmm.  A little OT don't you think??

Of course. What would a controversial thread be without a derailing?

But, seriously, you were the one that brought up teenage girls, necking and whotnot. So, if I'm going down in flames, you ain't gettin out of this! 

I brought it up in context with the topic, you are the one who isolated it into a sup-topic.  Nice try though...

[mormonyoyoman]

If there's gonna be derailments of threads, I'll remind you each that derailing threads is MY job. And the pay is lousy!

[Mighty Darci]

Jul 4, 2017 13:45:45 GMT -5 mormonyoyoman said:

If there's gonna be derailments of threads, I'll remind you each that derailing threads is MY job. And the pay is lousy!

Admin Pete, doesn't mormonyoyoman deserve a raise? After all, he is very good at the job.

[Mighty Darci]

Jul 3, 2017 4:28:41 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

For the vary fact that the majority of women did not like, back then, playing with little toy soldiers.

Some of us had a GI Joe and a Barbie, poor Ken, he couldn't compete.

[ripx187]

Admin Pete Thank you for such high praise! I was always told that it wasn't a TRUE sandbox, that my games were too linear. I do know that even though the world is open, the style of game that we play each session is mixed up and varied so that the game doesn't get stale, these elements are my choices. I don't want the players doing the same thing every time, if one game focuses on role-play, then the next will focus on action or exploration. The DM's role means something to the game. I trump the dice. I try not to manipulate too much, but if play stops, then as DM, I feel it is my turn to create change or offer options, I try to make sure that these options maximize the players ability to get back into the game. I also make demands upon the players; I expect them to be heroes.

In regards to the Ravenloft, my favorite Hickman module, many people said that it was closed, but I was able to run it in an open fashion. I edited it to fit my table, but I have ran into terrible modules which were just "This happens, and then this, and then this; BAM BAM BAM", and those are no fun at all. Many folks fault Laura & Tracy Hickman with the popularity of BAM BAM modules, and while they were presented that way, they could be reformated. It wasn't as long or as open as your classic examples, but it was rich in atmosphere and the main villain, Straud the Vampire, defied the strange D&D MM listing of the monster and brought a more classical take on it. It defined my game.
 

[Admin Pete]

As long as the players have real choices and options, if they decide to pursue a more linear track (a pure sandbox will have some just as real life does) that is up to them, but make sure they have other options along the way. Players can choose to paint themselves into a corner and then they pay the price. TPK's can and should happen if the players make bad decisions. Good decisions can lead to a long life or not. Bad decisions lead to death. If play stops, sum things up and then ask, "What do you want to do?" Players who start with spoon feeding have to be taught and it is up to the players to make decisions. Some times it is a random monsters and the decision should be run or talk, or, or, or...



You provide the environment and the players act and react and you as the ref do the same. I do not see any separation between role-play, action and exploration and other items. They are like a good eggnog, many ingredients throughly mixed and delicious.

[Jame Rowe]

Jul 4, 2017 14:22:46 GMT -5 Mighty Darci said:

Jul 4, 2017 13:45:45 GMT -5 mormonyoyoman said:

If there's gonna be derailments of threads, I'll remind you each that derailing threads is MY job. And the pay is lousy!

Admin Pete , doesn't mormonyoyoman deserve a raise? After all, he is very good at the job.

300,000 times of 0 is still ZERO!

[mormonyoyoman]

[Admin Pete]

I love Schoolhouse Rock. They should have kept making them. What a great way to teach and to entertain. I was in my last year of high school when they came out and I only remember seeing six of them. (I was without a TV for over 20 years, I just never bought one) Just checked that it had longer run that I knew and there are 64 episodes, IMO that ought to be hundreds of episodes.