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Post by robkuntz on Apr 13, 2017 13:28:30 GMT -5
Heh. You guys are something else...  Right out of Alice in Wonderland... |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 13, 2017 13:31:08 GMT -5
BTW: Here is the first of several reviews on the way, this one by the imminent Paul J. Stormberg: Howdy All, I just got done reading a fantastic book: Dave Arneson's True Genius by Robert J. Kuntz! I was fortunate enough to get an advanced reading copy of the book (actually a whole lot of them because I volunteered to help with stateside fulfillment) and I must say I am beside myself with excitement! Rob has discussed his intensive research with me over the last several years and I was thrilled by the conclusions he drew but reading it all laid out for the first time is simply stunning. In fact I read it cover to cover before bed and exclaimed, "Wow! Wow!" My wife seeing I had just read the last page and flipped closed the book she said, "Pretty good, huh!" I nodded and she smiled and turned out the light to go to sleep. I quickly sat up out of bed and she asked, "What I was doing!?" I said, putting on my slippers, "I am going to read it again!" As I read through it again, she asked if I was ever coming to bed and I said, "I have to finish reading it!" And I did... The roleplaying game has been around now for over 45 years and many attempts have been made to define it. Rob has done what hasn't been done before. He has analyzed and identified the true genius of Dave Arneson's creation from the perspective of a game designer. Rob explores and demonstrates how Dave broke with two millennia of game design. The book is three linked essays titled: From Vision to Vicissitude: The Rise and Reversal of Arneson's RPG Concept, Dimensionality in Design: An Examination of Dave Arneson's System of Systems Thinking, and Debunking the Chainmail/Braunstein "Derivation" Claims. In these three essays Rob lays out just what Arneson created before ever showing the game to Gary Gygax and explains just why it is such a phenomenal leap, not only in game design, but in systems thinking. He also presents the event horizon of Arneson's genius leap and the lost opportunity and loss of historical significance of what had happened. Rob includes several vignettes that showcase what both Dave and Gary knew and how Gary changed his thinking on the phenomenon in order to monetize the idea. It is an incredible look into the minds of both Dave and Gary. The last essay is Rob's dissection of Arneson's design-leap and demonstrably proves how both Chainmail and Braunstein are related to Dave's creation but in no way have any relationship to Dave's genius systems thinking that becomes the first fantasy roleplaying game. In addition to these distinct essays the book has a section of sample text from Rob's forthcoming book A New Ethos in Game Design: The Paradigm Shift Created by Dungeons & Dragons, 1972-1977. Given the chapter samples, I can not wait to get that book too! This book goes way beyond just a roleplaying audience and is a fantastic read for any type of gamer (board, computer, video, wargamer, etc.), game designers of all walks should be required to read this!, social scientists, historians, teachers, and just about anyone who has ever had experiences with roleplaying in everyday life -- gaming, training, education, acting, you name it! I think Rob said they were going to start offering it on Thursday (but it looks like it might already be available!) through his Three Line Studio store at: www.threelinestudio.com/store/I can't wait until some more people have read it so I can partake in the discussions with the thoughts brimming on my mind! Futures Bright, Paul |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 13, 2017 14:01:54 GMT -5
After reading his review, I even more want to read this book. I am especially looking forward to this part:
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 13, 2017 14:32:25 GMT -5
According to the sales figures for over 12 hours we expect this baby to break the sound barrier in a week. Great response so far! Thanks to everyone here (and there) that's spreading the good word. Huzzzah!
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 13, 2017 15:46:31 GMT -5
According to the sales figures for over 12 hours we expect this baby to break the sound barrier in a week. Great response so far! Thanks to everyone here (and there) that's spreading the good word. Huzzzah! Huzzzah! Indeed! Fantastic! |
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Post by ripx187 on Apr 13, 2017 16:19:35 GMT -5
I posted it on my blog and to all of the places that I hang out in.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 13, 2017 16:30:54 GMT -5
Someone heeds to shake Havard and his crew up. He has been dead silent and I don't know know how to contact him. Arneson is his hero and he was looking forward to the book.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 13, 2017 19:33:38 GMT -5
Someone heeds to shake Havard and his crew up. He has been dead silent and I don't know know how to contact him. Arneson is his hero and he was looking forward to the book. I posted the press release over at The Comeback Inn. I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it. |
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Post by ripx187 on Apr 13, 2017 19:51:21 GMT -5
Wow, I filtered just two links that I posted through my blog and it is getting good numbers; you Robert are getting slammed! I'm gonna be madder than a wet hen if I don't have a chance to get my copy before they sell out.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 13, 2017 20:29:39 GMT -5
Wow, I filtered just two links that I posted through my blog and it is getting good numbers; you Robert are getting slammed! I'm gonna be madder than a wet hen if I don't have a chance to get my copy before they sell out. Don't worry, he will keep printing copies to fill all the orders. Let's make him print more than he ever imagined he would need to.  |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 14, 2017 6:50:11 GMT -5
I am resharing my blog post about 3 times a day on google+ to my circles (4600 people) extended circles and to the public. I also posted it to my facebook page.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 14, 2017 7:17:03 GMT -5
I am resharing my blog post about 3 times a day on google+ to my circles (4600 people) extended circles and to the public. I also posted it to my facebook page. A good idea as the feed gets pushed down. We are adopting staged information drops, reviews, updates and so forth, including an extensive supporting article which will launch Three Line Studio's company blog. I am working on the article today and it will be comprehensive regarding my time, both personal and professional, that I shared with Dave Arneson. It will be a base for another work on the man and that period in time involving some others that have been overlooked, a time (1969) in which we met and became instant friends. |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 14, 2017 7:24:36 GMT -5
Wow, I filtered just two links that I posted through my blog and it is getting good numbers; you Robert are getting slammed! I'm gonna be madder than a wet hen if I don't have a chance to get my copy before they sell out. Don't worry, he will keep printing copies to fill all the orders. Let's make him print more than he ever imagined he would need to. Heh. One can only hope. The book is already receiving attention from game/play theorists and academics. A well established professor from UIUC who is initimately involved with IS and Play Theory, ordered it yesterday. This will give TLS, as we had projected with the book, expanding market avenues for it and its follow-up materials. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 14, 2017 7:49:20 GMT -5
I am resharing my blog post about 3 times a day on google+ to my circles (4600 people) extended circles and to the public. I also posted it to my facebook page. A good idea as the feed gets pushed down. We are adopting staged information drops, reviews, updates and so forth, including an extensive supporting article which will launch Three Line Studio's company blog. I am working on the article today and it will be comprehensive regarding my time, both personal and professional, that I shared with Dave Arneson. It will be a base for another work on the man and that period in time involving some others that have been overlooked, a time (1969) in which we met and became instant friends. Let me know and I will re-share links on my blog. Let me know if there are any select quotes that you would like to me to use. Quotes and comments are a good thing. |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 14, 2017 9:03:27 GMT -5
A good idea as the feed gets pushed down. We are adopting staged information drops, reviews, updates and so forth, including an extensive supporting article which will launch Three Line Studio's company blog. I am working on the article today and it will be comprehensive regarding my time, both personal and professional, that I shared with Dave Arneson. It will be a base for another work on the man and that period in time involving some others that have been overlooked, a time (1969) in which we met and became instant friends. Let me know and I will re-share links on my blog. Let me know if there are any select quotes that you would like to me to use. Quotes and comments are a good thing. Will do and thanks. Having a historical moment here in remembering the rampant pettiness that exists in this industry today, this mainly in connection to the attitudes regarding Arneson. I am incorporating some of that into the article though the actual breadth of it transcends this, which of itself is a passing note, however noteworthy. I will cull some passages from the book that convey different slices of its matter and pass them to you via e-mail. |
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Post by tetramorph on Apr 14, 2017 11:08:35 GMT -5
robkuntz, looking forward to reading this once the semester is out. Congratulations.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 14, 2017 12:02:05 GMT -5
robkuntz , looking forward to reading this once the semester is out. Congratulations. Very good of you Tetramorph to give it a look. In all it's a gigantic step to doing Arneson's ultimate contribution to us the justice and recognition it deserves. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 5:15:28 GMT -5
I don't have anything more to contribute other than to say that I'm really excited for this. Hopefully this will usher in a new wave of the 'OSR' that finally gives Arneson and Blackmoor their due.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 15, 2017 7:22:44 GMT -5
I posted this on my blog back in October 2016:
I am not sure that I stated the historical parts completely accurately and I am assuming that the new book will help me correct that. I think reading it now from 6 months later that there are things that I could have stated better. I think this book will lead to at least some people having that light bulb moment and there will be for some a reset that will lead to new original good stuff.
If I were to rewrite it, I would likely say something to the effect that something outside the OSR (using the Renaissance tag) would be the impetus of a reall Cultural Re-Birth and then talk about the new book and the book that will follow it and the impact they can and should have.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 15, 2017 11:16:48 GMT -5
Ordered. Does that make me a fanboy? |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 15, 2017 11:24:37 GMT -5
Ordered. Does that make me a fanboy? Yep. Of Arneson. I'm just the researcher and messenger. |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 15, 2017 12:09:59 GMT -5
The Great Svenny has ordered the book. Yet another GREAT omen!
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 15, 2017 22:04:30 GMT -5
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 15, 2017 22:30:55 GMT -5
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 16, 2017 4:34:18 GMT -5
The Review that preceded the SoBM review of DATG was written by Paul Stormberg and is posted after my critique of SoBM review. I have critical issues with SoBM's review (and they are my friends). For one, even though I have delineated in readily available systems knowledge that Arneson created a new and transcendent system, that fact is never mentioned in the review! In fact, unless my eyes deceive me, never is the word system (probably referenced 50 or more times in the work while open and closed systems are being compared and Arneson's system's architecture is being explained IN DETAIL), well, never is the word system mentioned once! Further I never discard Chainmail and Braunstein in my assessment as is suggested; I merely place them in accordance to where they belong though scientific comparison of their overt system's to what Arneson transcended to arrive at his. Thirdly, the book's content is summarized on the back cover and mentions all of this as well as being summarized in the category listings for the book's back matter: Design Philosophy* Systems Theory* RPG History. Arneson's historical leap is predicated on inventing a new systems architecture and I explain that in depth and list the sundry impacts that it achieves. But... No mention of systems at all! The very core information which is the book's defining central matter! Very strange. As well, I never discard mechanics as if they did not exist; these too are placed within the organizational stream of Arneson's new system and I explain their functions and their mutability. I find this review, overall, severely lacking in perspective and in some many places as it glosses major, and defining, parts of the work. What follows is Paul Stormberg's review. He is not a game designer, per se, but has been exposed to game designers and their thoughts for some time and has created his own long-standing campaign world like many D&Ders have (so maybe the design qualities inherent to OD&D and the playing and manipulating of its different complexes allow those doing so a better insight into the matter that I have forwarded in DATG, just a guess).. Howdy All, I just got done reading a fantastic book: Dave Arneson's True Genius by Robert J. Kuntz! I was fortunate enough to get an advanced reading copy of the book (actually a whole lot of them because I volunteered to help with stateside fulfillment) and I must say I am beside myself with excitement! Rob has discussed his intensive research with me over the last several years and I was thrilled by the conclusions he drew but reading it all laid out for the first time is simply stunning. In fact I read it cover to cover before bed and exclaimed, "Wow! Wow!" My wife seeing I had just read the last page and flipped closed the book she said, "Pretty good, huh!" I nodded and she smiled and turned out the light to go to sleep. I quickly sat up out of bed and she asked, "What I was doing!?" I said, putting on my slippers, "I am going to read it again!" As I read through it again, she asked if I was ever coming to bed and I said, "I have to finish reading it!" And I did... The roleplaying game has been around now for over 45 years and many attempts have been made to define it. Rob has done what hasn't been done before. He has analyzed and identified the true genius of Dave Arneson's creation from the perspective of a game designer. Rob explores and demonstrates how Dave broke with two millennia of game design. The book is three linked essays titled: From Vision to Vicissitude: The Rise and Reversal of Arneson's RPG Concept, Dimensionality in Design: An Examination of Dave Arneson's System of Systems Thinking, and Debunking the Chainmail/Braunstein "Derivation" Claims. In these three essays Rob lays out just what Arneson created before ever showing the game to Gary Gygax and explains just why it is such a phenomenal leap, not only in game design, but in systems thinking. He also presents the event horizon of Arneson's genius leap and the lost opportunity and loss of historical significance of what had happened. Rob includes several vignettes that showcase what both Dave and Gary knew and how Gary changed his thinking on the phenomenon in order to monetize the idea. It is an incredible look into the minds of both Dave and Gary. The last essay is Rob's dissection of Arneson's design-leap and demonstrably proves how both Chainmail and Braunstein are related to Dave's creation but in no way have any relationship to Dave's genius systems thinking that becomes the first fantasy roleplaying game. In addition to these distinct essays the book has a section of sample text from Rob's forthcoming book A New Ethos in Game Design: The Paradigm Shift Originated by Dungeons & Dragons, 1972-1977. Given the chapter samples, I can not wait to get that book too! This book goes way beyond just a roleplaying audience and is a fantastic read for any type of gamer (board, computer, video, wargamer, etc.), game designers of all walks should be required to read this!, social scientists, historians, teachers, and just about anyone who has ever had experiences with roleplaying in everyday life -- gaming, training, education, acting, you name it! I think Rob said they were going to start offering it on Thursday (but it looks like it might already be available!) through his Three Line Studio store at: www.threelinestudio.com/store/I can't wait until some more people have read it so I can partake in the discussions with the thoughts brimming on my mind!
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 6:55:44 GMT -5
Bill Hoyt, an esteemed member of Arneson's group/Minneapolis gamers just ordered the book! Bill and I are old friends and it was Bill who turned me onto CSASmith's story, "The Seven Geases". I have a few stories about Bill, god bless him and his outgoing, talkative personality, and that are included in my unpublished memoirs.
EDIT: In fact Bill Hoyt is seen in the clip for Secrets of Blackmoor DOC, right up front, laughing about killing Arneson; then it's David Wesely in the second scene, then me in the third as I was talking about the immersion aspect of the game.
Secrets of Blackmoor CLIP at youtube Link:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 12:07:32 GMT -5
Save a copy for me, I'm short of cash until I get my first Social Security check in early May!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 12:11:30 GMT -5
By the way, after decades of computer programming I'm really eager to read your thoughts on systems in gaming. I've seen a gazillion suggested rule changes for D&D over the years, but very few people approach the changes in terms of "What effect will this have in actual play?"
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 12:14:55 GMT -5
Save a copy for me, I'm short of cash until I get my first Social Security check in early May! I'll mail a copy and you can pay when you can, how about that old friend? That way you can read it and get involved with/without the SS angle. PM me your address and I'll forward it to Paul Stormberg. Note whether you want it Priority mail (5 bucks more. but much faster delivery, some people here got it in two days!) or media mail ( slower delivery time) in the private message.  |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 12:42:44 GMT -5
By the way, after decades of computer programming I'm really eager to read your thoughts on systems in gaming. I've seen a gazillion suggested rule changes for D&D over the years, but very few people approach the changes in terms of "What effect will this have in actual play?" "What effect will this have in actual play?" Or, in systems terminology, what effect(s) will be generated by perturbing the current system state? Will it cause instability in the current system (or not), i.e., disequilibrium? And, more importantly with Arneson's model, by being diametrically changed that it no longer produces (AS-IS) the same system qualities as its initial condition demonstrated... |
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Right out of Alice in Wonderland... 
