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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 1, 2018 13:09:59 GMT -5
Has anyone run a Bronze Age Fantasy campaign be it for OD&D, the various Basic D&D rules, AD&D (either edition) or even RuneQuest (either via the Glorantha setting or the default presumed setting in the setting agnostic later editions) or via the Bronze & Blood Roleplaying in Mythic Mesopotamia RPG?
Because of my renewed interest in Glorantha and my long time interest in Mesopotamian & Hellenic histories and cultures I've been contemplating developing a setting inspired by such cultures but only so much as to inform the feel of the setting as I am not a fan of running or playing in historical based fantasy settings. I could just convert Glorantha to OD&D (or its clones) but I actually enjoy setting creation & don't want to fuss reading through a ton of Glorantha lore to do it. This is still in the ruminating stage of "Do I want to do it, will I find players to play in it so it is a worth while project?".
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 1, 2018 13:41:46 GMT -5
Dungeons & Dragons can already do this. All you need is to refigure the items list and find a map that you like. Historical games can be as fun or as not fun as you want them to be. If you are familiar with the time period than you can do it. As a reference point, I was learning about 1890's during my Masque of the Red Death campaign and having a blast doing it! I fudged what I had to, especially with 5-mile HEX maps of specific areas. I chose what places and features NEEDED to be on there, estimated or actually just moved them where I wanted them to be and just filled in the rest. I didn't know much about Europe, but I leaned towards that highly stylized cold-war cloak and dagger kind of stuff that only existed in my head, and it really came to life. Just because it is historical doesn't mean that we can't have it be fictional too. We have to edit things down.
Players might like it! It is a change of pace from typical fantasy, and it really does make learning fun!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 1, 2018 13:44:14 GMT -5
Another thing I really like about Bronze Age settings is the focus on City-States & empires are often small and largely weak only lasting until the next ruler can't hold onto their dominions for a variety of reasons. I also like how the setting could be run in a Human Centric Sword & Sorcery style or magic filled world that is populated by non-human races like in RuneQuest & Glorantha.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 1, 2018 13:47:55 GMT -5
Dungeons & Dragons can already do this. All you need is to refigure the items list and find a map that you like. Historical games can be as fun or as not fun as you want them to be. If you are familiar with the time period than you can do it. As a reference point, I was learning about 1890's during my Masque of the Red Death campaign and having a blast doing it! I fudged what I had to, especially with 5-mile HEX maps of specific areas. I chose what places and features NEEDED to be on there, estimated or actually just moved them where I wanted them to be and just filled in the rest. I didn't know much about Europe, but I leaned towards that highly stylized cold-war cloak and dagger kind of stuff that only existed in my head, and it really came to life. Just because it is historical doesn't mean that we can't have it be fictional too. We have to edit things down. Players might like it! It is a change of pace from typical fantasy, and it really does make learning fun! Sounds very intriguing. That is one of the things I did like about 2e AD&D is that TSR did give DMs plenty of resources to use for a variety of Historical settings. The same things goes for the various editions of RuneQuest as they gave you a ton of historical supplements to work with.
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Post by mao on Aug 2, 2018 12:44:59 GMT -5
On my old to do list was Bronze age Superheros
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 2, 2018 13:08:28 GMT -5
Dungeons & Dragons can already do this. All you need is to refigure the items list and find a map that you like. Historical games can be as fun or as not fun as you want them to be. If you are familiar with the time period than you can do it. As a reference point, I was learning about 1890's during my Masque of the Red Death campaign and having a blast doing it! I fudged what I had to, especially with 5-mile HEX maps of specific areas. I chose what places and features NEEDED to be on there, estimated or actually just moved them where I wanted them to be and just filled in the rest. I didn't know much about Europe, but I leaned towards that highly stylized cold-war cloak and dagger kind of stuff that only existed in my head, and it really came to life. Just because it is historical doesn't mean that we can't have it be fictional too. We have to edit things down. Players might like it! It is a change of pace from typical fantasy, and it really does make learning fun! Sounds very intriguing. That is one of the things I did like about 2e AD&D is that TSR did give DMs plenty of resources to use for a variety of Historical settings. The same things goes for the various editions of RuneQuest as they gave you a ton of historical supplements to work with. I don't think that it was just 2e, this stuff is hidden in all versions of the game. Medieval fantasy was the default but with a bit of work one can take any D&D system and simulate anything from prehistoric campaigns to science fiction space operas. I've used the system to play 1890's Victorian era and had a really great campaign in France based off of the book The Three Musketeers.
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 2, 2018 13:09:46 GMT -5
On my old to do list was Bronze age Superheros That would be a trip Mao!
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Post by mao on Aug 2, 2018 13:11:29 GMT -5
On my old to do list was Bronze age Superheros That would be a trip Mao! Yea, would not it?
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Post by Jakob Grimm on Aug 2, 2018 13:43:47 GMT -5
I don't think that it was just 2e, this stuff is hidden in all versions of the game. Medieval fantasy was the default but with a bit of work one can take any D&D system and simulate anything from prehistoric campaigns to science fiction space operas. I've used the system to play 1890's Victorian era and had a really great campaign in France based off of the book The Three Musketeers. Do you still have anything written up on how you did both of these? I think we would all like to see that, those sound like a whole lotta fun.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 2, 2018 13:54:42 GMT -5
Sounds very intriguing. That is one of the things I did like about 2e AD&D is that TSR did give DMs plenty of resources to use for a variety of Historical settings. The same things goes for the various editions of RuneQuest as they gave you a ton of historical supplements to work with. I don't think that it was just 2e, this stuff is hidden in all versions of the game. Medieval fantasy was the default but with a bit of work one can take any D&D system and simulate anything from prehistoric campaigns to science fiction space operas. I've used the system to play 1890's Victorian era and had a really great campaign in France based off of the book The Three Musketeers. True but it was with 2e AD&D when actual Viking or Crusades historically oriented books were published instead of just articles or supplements from other companies. And locally they didn't carry much outside D&D, White Wolf, Palladium Books, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Rolemaster and Warhammer based games at the time 2e was out; except Ars Magica & Pendragon I think. Oh Rolemaster had some but I didn't find those until my 30s. Also at the time I was not a big non-fiction reader, it took me until my 30s to start reading academic works on other cultures so unless it was in a book I wasn't interested.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Aug 4, 2018 18:40:20 GMT -5
In a practical sense of both weapons and armor, how big is the difference between bronze, iron and steel?
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 4, 2018 19:22:37 GMT -5
In a practical sense of both weapons and armor, how big is the difference between bronze, iron and steel? Both iron & Steel can hold an edge better and give a bit more protection. But the key aspect of Bronze Age fantasy is more cultural in nature, city-states over kingdoms, often centered around the cult of the city's patron deity. Think ancient Mesopotamia & ancient Hellenic city states prior to roman dominion. Instead of Knights, Clerics (in the blunt weapon variety) & flashy magic-users you have nomadic warrior tribesmen, soldiers of the city-states, mercenaries, dangerous and sorcerers using corruptive magics, priests of the various city and minor cults holding immense power - basically Sword & Sorcery but since it is fantasy you can have non-human races too. Basically what you get with Glorantha.
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Post by Keyone1234 on Aug 5, 2018 0:22:27 GMT -5
In a practical sense of both weapons and armor, how big is the difference between bronze, iron and steel? Both iron & Steel can hold an edge better and give a bit more protection. But the key aspect of Bronze Age fantasy is more cultural in nature, city-states over kingdoms, often centered around the cult of the city's patron deity. Think ancient Mesopotamia & ancient Hellenic city states prior to roman dominion. Instead of Knights, Clerics (in the blunt weapon variety) & flashy magic-users you have nomadic warrior tribesmen, soldiers of the city-states, mercenaries, dangerous and sorcerers using corruptive magics, priests of the various city and minor cults holding immense power - basically Sword & Sorcery but since it is fantasy you can have non-human races too. Basically what you get with Glorantha. I think I could really enjoy a Bronze Age themed game more than a Middle Ages theme. Thank you for spelling that out, I had not considered that before.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 5, 2018 1:00:38 GMT -5
Keyone1234 said: Have you ever played RuneQuest or any of games used to run Glorantha (such as HeroQuest & Hero Wars) Keyone123? It is a Bronze Age influenced setting. I am partial to Bronze Age style settings because of my interest in Mesopotamian history, culture & religion; as well as Ancient Hellenic and Hittite cultures as well. Though I'll always have a soft spot for Middle Ages based fantasy settings like Forgotten Realms, Eberron & Greyhawk I've grown to prefer Bronze Age style games or science fantasy. Though I am not sure I'll want to use RuneQuest to run games I do think I might want to incorporate some of their character generation stuff to help add the right kind of flavor I'd be looking for in a Bronze Age influenced campaign.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 5, 2018 18:08:15 GMT -5
I might come up with a setting called World of Beš-Mûg (Pr. Besh-Moog) based around this idea of a Bronze age inspired fantasy world, though initial central setting would be based upon the Iškar Peninsula where a collection of City-States resides. Just a thought as I've been brainstorming ideas as I've been watching videos on RuneQuest & Glorantha. I may even look into creating some house rules inspired by RuneQuest & possibly the OD&D supplements for Delving Deeper or the Big Brown Book.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 5, 2018 18:12:37 GMT -5
I gotta say, RuneQuest is a cool name for a game. I didn't know if was a bronze age basis game. One of many I have never really looked at.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 5, 2018 18:25:31 GMT -5
Runequest was initially created to be used with the Glorantha setting which was inspired by Bronze age mythology & cultures. But it can be used for any kind of fantasy, especially the RQ3e by Avalon Hill and Mongoose's versions & its Legend offshoot. RuneQuest 6 by Design Mechanisms and its Mythras replacement are largely generic in nature.
Chaosism has decided to rejoin Glorantha to RuneQuest and the new edition is designed to facilitate the setting tropes within the mechanics from what I heard. If you want to run RQ without the Glorantha focus your best bet is Legend or Mythras or Classic Fantasy a Mythras offshoot aimed at "traditional" fantasy RPG tropes of Dungeon Delving compared to standard RQ play.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 5, 2018 19:00:05 GMT -5
Runequest was initially created to be used with the Glorantha setting which was inspired by Bronze age mythology & cultures. But it can be used for any kind of fantasy, especially the RQ3e by Avalon Hill and Mongoose's versions & its Legend offshoot. RuneQuest 6 by Design Mechanisms and its Mythras replacement are largely generic in nature. Chaosism has decided to rejoin Glorantha to RuneQuest and the new edition is designed to facilitate the setting tropes within the mechanics from what I heard. If you want to run RQ without the Glorantha focus your best bet is Legend or Mythras or Classic Fantasy a Mythras offshoot aimed at "traditional" fantasy RPG tropes of Dungeon Delving compared to standard RQ play. Thanks for the info, I will keep that in mind.
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Post by mao on Aug 6, 2018 9:20:46 GMT -5
I was going to do an Athens and Sparta thing. The PCs would be demi gods of a city state caught in the middle That would be a fun thing, you'll have to write that up and post it someday once you have cleared your plate of the current stuff. Maybe, I have so many projects I could do, I'll keep this in mind as the forum lacks super hero stuff
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Post by El Borak on Aug 6, 2018 9:26:17 GMT -5
That would be a fun thing, you'll have to write that up and post it someday once you have cleared your plate of the current stuff. Maybe, I have so many projects I could do, I'll keep this in mind as the forum lacks super hero stuff Happy to be of service. Why don't we clone you and then we could get the benefit of all of it. I don't know where you get the energy from, but if you could bottle it, I'd buy.
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Post by mao on Aug 6, 2018 9:33:00 GMT -5
Maybe, I have so many projects I could do, I'll keep this in mind as the forum lacks super hero stuff Happy to be of service. Why don't we clone you and then we could get the benefit of all of it. I don't know where you get the energy from, but if you could bottle it, I'd buy. I am the "house wife" of the family, so I can pop on as I go about my daily chores, As to my creative output, I usual focus on one project, but my muse has been all over the place. i hope this creative streak continues.
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Post by Admin Pete on Aug 6, 2018 9:41:43 GMT -5
Happy to be of service. Why don't we clone you and then we could get the benefit of all of it. I don't know where you get the energy from, but if you could bottle it, I'd buy. I am the "house wife" of the family, so I can pop on as I go about my daily chores, As to my creative output, I usual focus on one project, but my muse has been all over the place. i hope this creative streak continues. As do we all!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 9, 2018 14:16:26 GMT -5
I might come up with a setting called World of Beš-Mûg (Pr. Besh-Moog) based around this idea of a Bronze age inspired fantasy world, though initial central setting would be based upon the Iškar Peninsula where a collection of City-States resides. Just a thought as I've been brainstorming ideas as I've been watching videos on RuneQuest & Glorantha. I may even look into creating some house rules inspired by RuneQuest & possibly the OD&D supplements for Delving Deeper or the Big Brown Book. I am questioning this project, as what I want is found in Glorantha so I am not sure why I should reinvent the wheel so to speak. Instead I might use World of Beš-Mûg & Iškar Peninsula in a setting inspired by Vance (with nods to Leiber, Lovecraft & Moorcock). It is still in the brainstorming stage in any case. Though I love crafting my own settings there is something about Glorantha that has always intrigued me and the newest edition of RQ and the various posts on the chaosium blog and their video series just sings to me. That said I could always change my mind but I am leaning heavily towards running RQ & Glorantha to scratch my Bronze Age and complex games itch; while focus on a largely Vancian inspired setting and OD&D rooted system that will better cater to the setting and its tropes.
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Post by Q Man on Aug 12, 2018 16:34:12 GMT -5
Do you still have anything written up on how you did both of these? I think we would all like to see that, those sound like a whole lotta fun. I think this question got overlooked in a flurry of posting. I am interested in the answer too!
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Post by Jakob Grimm on Aug 18, 2018 15:18:44 GMT -5
I don't think that it was just 2e, this stuff is hidden in all versions of the game. Medieval fantasy was the default but with a bit of work one can take any D&D system and simulate anything from prehistoric campaigns to science fiction space operas. I've used the system to play 1890's Victorian era and had a really great campaign in France based off of the book The Three Musketeers. Do you still have anything written up on how you did both of these? I think we would all like to see that, those sound like a whole lotta fun. I think this question got overlooked in a flurry of posting. I am interested in the answer too! Hey ripx187 , we're still interested in the 1890's Victorian era and the Three Musketeers thing that you did.
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 18, 2018 15:43:46 GMT -5
Sorry Jakob Grimm, it isn't all that exciting. For the Victorian Campaign, I used a commercial product called Masque of the Red Death, it uses the 2nd Edition AD&D rules, and lots of homebrewing! I ignored all that stuff about the Red Death for the most part, as we wanted to play the long game with it. The handbook that came with the box set and that map of the world was really awesome! Even with the three supplements for the setting, it is extremely bare bones, which I like. There is lots of research for the DM to do, so it is very hands on. For the 1620's France game, we made it up. We used light arms and light armour. Muskets were so slow that they really didn't factor into play all that much, but we based them off of the Arquebus, but with less of a chance of them exploding on you.
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 19, 2018 13:35:00 GMT -5
The 1620's game was a big experiment. I had played a fighter, and the rules said that if I built a fortress I'd get a small army; however, no DM wanted to go there. My roommate at the time had an idea which would simulate a specific historical period and we could play the war game. We both did our research and decided that we wanted to play in that specific time so we adjusted weapons, totally got rid of magic and monsters, drew up some semi-accurate map and I rolled up a 10th level character.
The game was played with one DM and one Player. I had a couple of henchmen, one of which would be played by another guy if he happened to come over. It was a blast! The first part was exploring the character and the city, the second was a story where the local lord had, unbeknownst to me, been replaced by an imposter who was bent on my demise, as my character was a rogue musketeer who had been stripped of my title, which was okay with me as it allowed me more free time for drink and romance. I think that I was a bit of a spy as well, but that wasn't high on my list of things to do. I was a reluctant hero, which are always the best kind, right?
We played city adventures for about a month, then I was able to figure out who was trying to kill me. I still had no idea that the man was an imposter, not until I got arrested for killing his daughter (which I didn't do), and brought before him so that he could order my execution. He was a classic villain and had made a mistake of some kind, I don't remember what it was as the game was a really long time ago but I figured it out and was able to turn the Lord's men on my side. I managed to escape and turn the people against him, leading a revolt and exposing him which of course led to a very complex sword fight.
For the sword fight, we wanted to try out a new system that my DM had come up with that was much slower but more accurate. I wasn't aware of what was going on behind the screen nor exactly what this system was, but I had to be very specific and the rounds and turns were not used. We were both high level but the majority of my hits were actually countered and when one of us did score a hit it was physical, not deducted from the hp system. It was a long fight and scary! I had come to love this character and was later told that the villain was of a higher level than myself. The system would be impractical for group play, but since it was just the two of us we had more leeway. I eventually managed to kill him, and the guy's loyal co-conspirators did their best to take me out but I had won, and unfortunately was arrested and brought before the King of France where I had to prove that the real lord had been murdered. Worse! The King made me Lord of the territory. Well, my character hated it and tried to refuse, but I was overjoyed!
The final stage of the game was the war game. Neither of us knew what we were doing. We had no books and no experience beyond playing RISK. We collaborated on this phase, I drew up a castle, and we had to figure out how many men to each side. I had to defend the castle from the enemy (whoever had been rich and bold enough to murder a lord and put the villain in his place). We were poor as dirt (hence all of the D&D playing) had no miniatures and we had been playing on a card table so we had no space either. We used the map of the castle, cut up little pieces of paper to represent men, and went at it just making up rules as we went. We didn't use scale or anything, and I think that we eventually discarded the physical game and just ended up using our imagination because it was easier.
If I remember correctly, the original terms for me winning was to survive so many turns before the King's men would arrive, the DM's army was HUGE! But during the course of the game I ended up routing the enemy due to my crazy high CHA. We did use the Morale system of AD&D, as well as the other AD&D core systems to decide combat. Each piece of paper also started out representing 1 person, but we changed it as I was just wiping them out to fast, and we discovered that it was definitely a game that was in the player's favour. We had a blast! And we learned a lot about the game. We never played that way again, the two of us had a falling out cause the guy was crazier than I suspected, but the game itself was one of the best that I ever experienced and has become what I strive to simulate today.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 19, 2018 14:23:54 GMT -5
Wow, I'd loved to have watched that campaign as a spectator.
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Post by Traveroark on Aug 19, 2018 15:34:15 GMT -5
however, no DM wanted to go there. That is terrible, I have no idea why so few DMs are willing to play out the domain game part. We had no books and no experience beyond playing RISK. Using the Risk mechanic is not a bad way to go with battles, especially if you don't have the minis anyway.
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 20, 2018 14:49:34 GMT -5
however, no DM wanted to go there. That is terrible, I have no idea why so few DMs are willing to play out the domain game part.We had no books and no experience beyond playing RISK. Using the Risk mechanic is not a bad way to go with battles, especially if you don't have the minis anyway.TSR endorsed and published books about hard krieggspiel, and those are complicated and not really compatible with the verbal style that many of us use. I also think that publishers both underestimate their audiences and are just as stuck in the ideas of hard krieggspiel traditions. Many users who had left the hobby in favor of games like World of Warcraft returned because of something that they called "the end game." Levels meant something in table-top RPGs that was totally abandoned by WoW. They wanted to shift away from always young and never getting anywere real. They came back for a domain game which has been working its way into the games. As far as RISK goes, I totally agree. I think that it would make a great passive system to run in the background to create movement.
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