Melee combat example

[makofan]

TRAVELLER MELEE COMBAT AS UNDERSTOOD BY ME
All errors/corrections and discussion points are super-welcome. This is from Starter Traveller

Two PC's, Clint and Sly, are playing poker in a seedy cantina with three other gents - Fred, Slick and Stooge. It is a private game. Guns had to be left at the door with the bouncers.

Clint: 9CA (Str/Dex/End) Brawling-1 Gambling-4 Tactics-1 wears Mesh under his poncho
Sly: A8A Brawling-2 Tactics-1 Blade-3, has a sheathed Blade and Jack armor
Fred: 878 Brawling-1, has a sap and no armor
Slick: 696 Gambling-2 Body Pistol-1, derringer and Cloth (kevlar) vest
Stooge: 969 Brawling-1 Blade-1, blade and no armor

Beverage bottles, ash trays and e-cigars, and poker chips crowd a table of five players in a retro joint in Muskatoon spaceport. The game has been going for a while, for very high stakes, and now it is time to see who is winning money. Clint and Sly are teaming up, so Clint rolls with a +4 DM, needing an 8+ to win. I will subtract Slick's Gambling 2, giving a final DM of +2. Roll is 9+2=11, Clint wins 5000 CR, enough money for a normal person to live on for a year. As he is Gambling 4 he needs to roll to see if he is suspected of cheating (8- to avoid). He rolls a 9 and Slick accuses him of cheating, and they are going to beat the money out of him. Slick reaches for his hideout gun, Fred and Stooge get off their chairs, Fred pulling out a sap and Stooge a Bowie knife. Sly flips over the table to impede people, and grabs a bottle off the table (he does not wish to kill anybody so does not draw his commando knife). Clint gets ready to punch Fred

COMBAT STARTS
There is no surprise, as each party is aware of the other.

Combat round is movement (state intentions) then simultaneous resolution, followed by morale phase.

Movement and combat is abstracted to range bands. Since a range band is 25 metres, everybody is in the same range band and is considered close or short range (GM will need to adjudicate). GM has option to go to map-based combat. Here it is pretty clear that Fred and Clint are in Close contact, Stooge and Sly are in Close contact, and Slick is at Short range to Clint and Sly

A character may walk one movement band or run two movement bands. If he moves two movement bands, he may not attack. A character can Evade (make no attacks but get a -DM to be hit), Close Range, Open Range or Stand (not move). Characters need 8+ after modifiers for a successful attack causing damage

Clint chooses to Stand, attack Fred
Sly chooses to Stand, attack Stooge
Fred chooses to Stand, attack Clint
Stooge chooses to Stand, attack Sly
Slick chooses to Stand, Draw and attack Clint

GM rules on the fly that Sly's table flip was a great tactic, and on an 8+ will knock Slick off his chair and stop him from getting a shot off that turn.He gives Sly a +1 DM for his Tactics skill. Sly rolls 7+1=8 success and Slick will get his gun out but not get a shot off this round. GM rules that a sap will use Brawling skill and Club damage, as will Sly's beer bottle.
 
MECHANICS
It doesn't matter what order combat is resolved in, as it is simultaneous.
Clint, Brawling +1, Hands vs no armor +1, Hands at Close Range +2, Advantageous Str (9+) +1 = DM +5
Fred's defense is Brawling -1, so Clint gets +4. He rolls 2+4=6 MISS
With a 10 End, he now has 9 more full Str swings he can take this combat

Fred, Brawling +1, Club vs Mesh -2, Club at Close Range +1, Advantageous Str (8+) +2 = DM +2
Clint's defense is Brawling -1, so Fred gets +1. He rolls 7+1=8 HIT for 2D=7 damage
Fred, End 8, can make 7 more full Str swings this combat
GM rolls randomly for STAT affected (first blood rule) and gets Str.
Clint is now 2CA. For attacking purposes he is still Str 9

Sly, Brawling +2, Club vs no armor +0, Club at Close Range +1, Advantageous Str (8+) +2 = DM +5
Stooge's defense is Blade -1, so Sly gets +4. He rolls 6+4=10 HIT for 2D=7 damage
Sly, End 10, can make 9 more full Str swings this combat
GM rolls randomly for STAT affected (first blood rule) and gets Dex.
Stooge's Dex is 6-7=0, and 1 pt is taken off a randonly rolled stat (End)
Stooge is 908 and unconscious
Sly's bottle breaks and is now treated as a dagger due to its jagged edge

Stooge, Blade +1, Blade vs Jack +0, Blade at Close Range +1, Advantageous Str (9+) +1 = DM +3
Sly's Defense is Brawling -2, so Stooge gets +1. He rolls 9+1=10 HIT for 2D=5 damage
GM rolls randomly for STAT affected (first blood rule) and gets Str.
Sly is now 58A. For attacking purposes he is still Str A

Morale: Side has taken 25%+ losses, needs 7+ to stand, rolls 11

DESCRIPTION
Sly flips over the table, cards and poker chips scattering everywhere, sending Slick to the floor before he can finish drawing a gun from his shoulder holster. The noise draws attention, as patrons of this fine emporium look around at all the money scattered on the floor. Clint launches a wild swing at Fred, misses, and gets whapped across the face with a vicious sap slap. Meanwhile Stooge opens up a cash in Sly's side, but comes too close to Sly's reach. Sly's smash is so strong it breaks the beer bottle in his hand, and sends Stooge unconscious. Sly notices Clint in trouble, and Slick drawing a bead on him with an illegal pistol. This fight isn't over yet!

Clint chooses to Stand, attack Fred
Sly chooses to Evade
Fred chooses to Stand, attack Clint
Slick chooses to Stand, shoot Sly

MECHANICS
It doesn't matter what order combat is resolved in, as it is simultaneous.
Clint, Brawling +1, Hands vs no armor +1, Hands at Close Range +2, Advantageous Str (9+) +1 = DM +5
Fred's defense is Brawling -1, so Clint gets +4. He rolls 12+4=16 HIT for 1D=3 damage
With a 10 End, he now has 8 more full Str swings he can take this combat
GM rolls randomly for STAT affected (first blood rule) and gets Str.
Fred is now 578

Fred, Brawling +1, Club vs Mesh -2, Club at Close Range +1, Advantageous Str (8+) +2 = DM +2
Clint's defense is Brawling -1, so Fred gets +1. He rolls 3+1=4 MISS
Fred, End 8, can make 6 more full Str swings this combat

Sly dodges behind the upturned table

Slick can not hit the concealed and covered Sly. His bullet thunks into the table. He has 5 shots left

Morale: Side has taken 25%+ losses, needs 7+ to stand, rolls 6

DESCRIPTION
Clint launches a glancing blow on Fred, and Slick misses his shot as Sly dives under cover. The two thugs decide to cut their losses and flee, leaving their helpless compatriot behind. Clint and Sly gather up as many chips as they can, and then hightail it before the authorities come. Clint's Str recovers to halfway between 2 (current) and 9 (normal), rounded down so he is Str 5 until he gets Medical care

[makofan]

Now, you may see some problems with the mechanics here. Even if Clint was Brawling-5, he could not get a quick knockout of his foe, as hands do only 1D damage. Some people use a house rule and add Brawling skill to Hands damage. Others like the way you can have a long, drawn out fight.

You can't kill somebody with a blade thrust. Max you can do is 12 damage, and the average healthy human can take 21. Some people house rule a critical hit when you roll 4 or more points higher than your needed dice score. Some add 2D, some double the damage. In game terms, usually a PC just wants to drop a character (unconscious is as good as dead) and so the game mechanics work well enough for them

Combat is simultaneous, so characters can kill each other in the same round. Some people don't like this and add an initiative system. Others see this as a warning not to get into firefights unless you have surprise or cover!

On the Weapons Table, Foil does 1D damage (even daggers do 2D!). I like to make a house rule that a foil's damage dice is equal to the skill level, so somebody with Foil-3 does 3D damage. Now there is a point to becoming a good dueller!

[ffilz]

Hmm, melee weapons really got borked from 1977 to 1981...

In 1977:

Dagger 2D-3
Foil 1D+4
Cutlass 2D+4

Note that there are some errata covering weapons:

Page 17, Blades and Polearms and Guns tables (correction): The –DMs listed for the Cutlass and the Submachinegun
are incorrect. They should be Cutlass, 6–, Submachinegun, 5–. These are correct on the Weapons table on page
45.

Page 46, Weapons Matrix (correction): The modifier for Dagger against Combat armor should be –7 instead of –
5. The modifier for Foil against Combat armor should be –6 instead of –8. The modifier for Carbine against Ablat
should be –1 instead of +1. The modifier for Rifle against Cloth should be –3 instead of –2; the modifier for Rifle
against Reflec should be +2 instead of +3, and the modifier for Rifle against Combat should be –5 instead of –4.
A footnote is missing for Ablat armor: Each time that laser fire hits ablat armor, it decreases the ablat’s DM by 1.

Page 47, Range Matrix (correction): The modifier for submachineguns at Long range should be –3 instead of –6.
Claws wound inflicted should be 2D; Cutlass wound inflicted should be 3D; Body Pistol wound inflicted should be 2D
(note that cutlass and body pistol are listed correctly on page 17).

If you don't have the consolidated errata, let me know, and I will e-mail it to you.

I'd be in favor of switching dagger and foil damage based on 1977...

Some kind of increased damage for higher skill in melee would be interesting. We shouldn't see much higher than level 3 or so given basic character generation (except maybe from Supplement 4 Barbarians, but then maybe they deserve a serious edge...), so maybe one extra damage die per skill > 1 or something might be interesting.

Frank

[makofan]

Great points Frank. Can you send me the 1977 damage chart - I remember liking it better (Body pistol was 3D-3 IIRC)? Also, consolidated errata would be awesome. I am very happy any time I can jump back to 1977

[ffilz]

Nov 2, 2016 9:14:15 GMT -5 makofan said:

Great points Frank. Can you send me the 1977 damage chart - I remember liking it better (Body pistol was 3D-3 IIRC)? Also, consolidated errata would be awesome. I am very happy any time I can jump back to 1977

The big challenge with 1977 damage is how do you apply a -3 to the damage dice distribution system...

Do you have Special Supplement 4 - The Lost Rules? That has all the damages


Weapon           (1977) (TTB) (for kicks, a more fair conversion to straight dice)
Hands            1D     1D    1D
Claws            1D+3   1D    2D
Teeth            2D–3   2D    1D
Horns            2D–5   2D    1D
Hooves           2D–6   2D    1D
Stinger          3D–6   3D    1D
Thrasher         2D+2   2D    3D
Club             2D–3   2D    1D
Dagger           2D–3   2D    1D
Blade            2D     2D    2D
Foil             1D+4   1D    2D
Cutlass          2D+4   3D    3D
Sword            2D+1   2D    2D
Broadsword       4D     4D    4D
Bayonet          3D     3D    3D
Spear            2D+2   2D    3D
Halberd          3D     3D    3D
Pike             3D     3D    3D
Cudgel           2D     2D    2D
Body Pistol      3D–8   2D    1D
Automatic Pistol 3D–3   3D    2D
Revolver         3D–3   3D    2D
Carbine          4D–8   3D    2D
Rifle            3D     3D    3D
Automatic Rifle  3D     3D    3D
Shotgun          4D     4D    4D
Submachinegun    3D–3   3D    2D
Laser Carbine    4D     4D    4D
Laser Rifle      5D     5D    5D

The last column is a better approximation based on average damage. Note that 2D-6 really is almost 0D, but that isn't very fun...

On allocation of dice, one could either distribute the negative amount across all the dice evenly, or one could eliminate the largest dice first, or the smallest dice first.

Frank

[makofan]

I do not have SS4. Worth the $2?

I am going to have to think about damages. I used to take the -3 off the biggest dice

[ffilz]

Nov 2, 2016 10:30:48 GMT -5 makofan said:

I do not have SS4. Worth the $2?

I am going to have to think about damages. I used to take the -3 off the biggest dice

SS4 is definitely interesting reading. I've got the CD-ROM so didn't have to spend extra for it. $2 is pretty cheap though... It doesn't list all the differences (even all the ones that are significant), thus my comparison document, but the items it does have it has full text for.

Taking the negative damage DMs off the biggest dice definitely allows the target the most flexibility in assigning damage.

Darn, all my efforts to put spaces in to line up the columns didn't work...

Frank

[makofan]

OK, I'll pick it up. For lining up, putting the spaces in works if you use the CODE tag (usually)

[erisred]

I lost my first attempt at this post, so I'll try again...

First, the columns lined up fine for me.

Second, I was perplexed by the 77 damage rules for a few days, then decided to basically do what GDW did a few years later and refigure them. My results look like your third column with a few differences.

First, I decided that the three, then five, classes of slug pistol were:

• Body Pistol -> ~.22 cal doing 1d (as per book)
  
  
• Auto Pistol -> ~9mm firing supersonic rounds doing 2d with better penetration and range
  
  
  • +1/+2/-3/-5/-7
    
  • and being better against armor: Mesh 0, Cloth -2, Reflec 0, CbtArm -4List item 2
  
  
• Revolver -> ~.45 cal Colt, heavy slugs traveling at subsonic speed doing 3d damage with lower penetration and range than Autos, but better "stopping power."
  
  
• +1/+2/-4/-6/no
  
• and per book against armor
  
  

[li]Snub Pistol (revolver) -> ~6 mm doing 2d and 6 rounds, but in every other way like a body pistol

[/li][li]Snub Pistol (automatic) -> ~6 mm doing 2d and 15 rounds, but in every other way like a body pistol[/li][/ul]

Second, I changed how SMG's and Shotguns worked.

• SMG's were just like Body Pistols with the inclusion of a "burst" mode the player could call. The player could call for 1 shot, 3 round burst, or 5 round full auto and:
  
  
  • Each round was rolled separately using the Body Pistol stats
  • Each hit did 1d, as per Body Pistol
  
  
• Shotguns had two round types: Slug and Pellet
  
  
  • Slug is 4d and is treated as per book
  • Pellet is treated like a 4 round burst from an SMG (4 separate chances to hit, each hit doing 1d damage)
  
  
  

Of course, later on, I stopped using CT personal combat, replacing it with homebrewed rules that drew from GURPS, MT, TNE, T4, BITS...etc. I ended up with GURPS like for damage Hit Points (STR+END+DEX) rather than taking from each Stat, > 1/2 HP unconscious. Armor also changed to be more GURPS like. To Hit went to a BITS like task system. It was a true kludge...that I winged most of the time.

Now, it's most like that found in the new Cepheus Engine. Heck! Actually, my CT is almost all Cepheus Engine now. With tweeks, of course..  I truly do recommend Cepheus Engine over any version of Traveller for mechanics.

[hogscape]

The problem with 1977 damage listings for weapons is that it doesn't sit well with the idea of "each die being a separate group of hits". I used the '77 set for a long while but didn't really play the rules as written; it wasn't until I tried playing canon games that I reverted to the '81 set.

However, all of my combats tend to be decided in the first round so it's neither here nor there really.

[tetramorph]

makofan, from your other games, I am pretty used to just telling you what I want my character to do and you work out the mechanics behind the scenes.

I trust you.

Can I assume I can do this here? Or is some knowledge of the particular mechanics necessary so I don't say stupid things or make stupid mistakes?

[makofan]

Basically use common sense. You have a rifle, he has a sword. What would you do? He has a submachinegun and you have a knife. There is cover five feet away. What do you do?