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Post by Admin Pete on Oct 29, 2016 17:04:59 GMT -5
Hey ripx187, great post, I now have a much better idea of what you do, how you do it and why. That is pretty cool! Our approaches are very different and that is good thing! Different approaches provide variety and as we share about our games, new ideas are created from the sharing. Yeah, I have no problem with a complete stranger in the game. I have pre-made characters and if someone unexpected shows up I just hand them a sheet. If someones character dies, I just hand them a sheet and work them back in or promote an NPC to PC and keep going. I work new people in the game in a wide variety of ways. The creative process for me is also a lot of fun. I love to spend time thinking things out and I also love to just wing it and create on the fly. I have said this and it is true - there are four or six or nine portals in the air in front of the players and I see nine completely different worlds on the other side, hanging in space and just waiting to be visited. If I ever get the chance I would like to ref for eight to ten hours a day for as many days in a row as possible. I don't really care where they stop at the end of a game, we just pick it up there when we start again. |
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 29, 2016 17:05:22 GMT -5
From that Hill Canton's interview I did many moons ago: "If you want to gauge the extent to which you have mastered story try winging an entire adventure as EGG and I did countless times (and as I instructed the participants to do in my workshop at this past NTRPGCON). Scripting an adventure and running it thereafter is not as telling in promoting such improvisational story matter; it’s only when you’re at the crossroads of doubt and choice, this is where you’ll find whether you are a true “story-crafter” or a mere “story-repeater”." "So there are no tricks, no shortcuts. You either master story--and thereafter know how, when and why to insert its elements into the forming adventure--or you don’t." That is what makes you a master. Man. This stuff is gold! I think that every DM thinks that he is doing a good job, but like a horrible singer, we really need to be told what is going on. Are we as good as we think we are, or are we caterwauling and people are being polite about it. When ever we start a brand new game, we have generally picked a theme, but that first game is always improvised. The first time that I done this was for my Gothic Earth campaign, it started as a murder mystery in a big mansion, I made up names, and the mansion rooms as we went. I had a player writing details down, which she gave to me after the game was over. We had a great time! I did have to change the order of the mansion rooms to draw a map in physical form, but this has been repeated over and over whenever they go back to the mansion. Rooms shift and change. It works, this place is haunted. I didn't intend for it to be like Steven King's Rose Red, but it works. The idea of shifting rooms (or settings, mini or otherwise) is a good concept that I use as well. Especially since 1973 via my Lost City of the Elders. I don't see much granular extrapolation like that in design, it's mainly straight forward (i.e., linear) so I encourage you to stay on that path and to expand upon it as differing avenues of expression present themselves. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Oct 29, 2016 17:13:13 GMT -5
As far as drawing, my skills are minor at best and my maps are rough, very rough. I would love to have about six good map artists and talk to all them at the same time for the whole day every day for a month and I would have enough hexes mapped and dungeons drawn to last me forever. I can see the whole thing the dungeons, the landscape, rivers, mountains, deserts, hills, islands of every stripe. I can see it all, if I could draw like say Necromancer does I would have stacks of maps enough for a dozen refs. |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Oct 29, 2016 21:40:06 GMT -5
What are people doing who don't map? They're engaging their memories and instincts and imagining in a different way. I like that "They're engaging their memories and instincts and imagining in a different way." |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Oct 29, 2016 21:47:25 GMT -5
My dad always worked a lot of overtime, so he didn't have time to "prep", but he could spin gold from straw when it came to running a D&D game or making up a story to tell to us kids. He told the old stories (his own versions) from Grimm and Andersen, The 1001 Nights and many others, but he also made up as many of his own too. My dad valued (values) every minute he could spend with the family and his friends.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 29, 2016 22:18:59 GMT -5
Hill Canton's interview of many years ago Isn't she running for President in America this year? |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Oct 29, 2016 22:51:26 GMT -5
Hill Canton's interview of many years ago Isn't she running for President in America this year? No, you are mistaken! What is America and what is a President, is that some new setting and class in D&D?  |
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 30, 2016 0:33:58 GMT -5
Hill Canton's interview of many years ago Isn't she running for President in America this year? Running for Prison, you mean... |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 30, 2016 2:15:05 GMT -5
Not to change the subject, but just to change the subject - How did fantasy player characters get graph paper, and would they know what it was if they got it?
"Gnorts the Barbarian stared at the blue-squared paper in his hand. 'Wizard stuff,' he muttered as he tossed it into the fire."
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 30, 2016 2:27:34 GMT -5
Not to change the subject, but just to change the subject - How did fantasy player characters get graph paper, and would they know what it was if they got it? "Gnorts the Barbarian stared at the blue-squared paper in his hand. 'Wizard stuff,' he muttered as he tossed it into the fire." For an abstract thinker like yourself this smacks of too much investment in the real... |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 30, 2016 9:39:09 GMT -5
Am always embarrassed by how literally my mind makes images, but it did help me win 1st Runner Up in the National Pun-off of 1983.
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 30, 2016 12:39:43 GMT -5
Thanks tetramorph, this is new information to me. I had never heard of this game, but this really looks like fun! Thank you for introducing it to me. Man vs. Nature is a passion of mine. I especially love Non-Fiction tales of survival, it is one that I think of often. I do incorporate this into my games when I can, but it isn't anything that I have real mechanics for. If I decide that this becomes an issue, the nature of the game changes until this is resolved. I have never been completely happy with my current system, and this board game sounds fascinating on so many levels. I don't have a "gaming budget" but, maybe I can ask Santa to bring me one for Xmas? |
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Post by tetramorph on Oct 30, 2016 14:41:12 GMT -5
I am less concerned with you seeing a copy of Outdoor Survival and more eager for you to have and read a copy of the original edition of D&D. That is our focal point of topic on this forum. Perhaps, ripx187, you could skip stopping by McDonalds, or whatever, twice in a row and make a sandwich at home? That should give you the $10 you need to work with to get the original edition rules (see link in my previous post, above). |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 30, 2016 15:15:56 GMT -5
I own that book, and you are correct that I should give it a reread with a fresh mind, and I plan too.
As far as 10$ go, I've got another hobby, I garden and that one puts food on the table. I've got my own house, and that instantly becomes a very demanding hobby. I've got two boys, those are expensive. The gov. always wants more than it's share. My wife and I are middle class, but we still have no money. It sucks, but every cent is accounted for, these are hard times friend!
BTW, McDonalds is toxic, never put that stuff in your body.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 15:29:23 GMT -5
No, you are mistaken! What is America and what is a President, is that some new setting and class in D&D? ....I think I love you. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 15:37:19 GMT -5
As far as keeping the game entertaining, there is some learning by doing. Some things I have thought were good ideas, weren't. But it's not hard for the aggregate experience to be much more good than bad.
In my experience, think up some interesting situations and interesting people and just leave them lying around and see what happens when the PCs interact with them.
My take on world design, to quote myself from elsewhere (in broad brush strokes):
"The way I like to play, and ref, is to provide several adventure hooks. The players may choose some, all, or none.
The OD&D books talk about going to taverns and inns and buying drinks, etc, to look for rumors. It's exactly the opposite from "A stranger approaches you in an inn."
But the situation is that there is a WORLD. So if my players investigate, they find:
* a caravan going to Far Khitai is hiring guards
* a mercenary band is recruiting for a skirmish in West Nowhereistan
* the Temple of the Eager Virgin reports that somebody has stolen the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness and is offering a reward
* the King is offering a reward for the head of the notorious highwayman Celerus the Nutpuncher
* the village of Post Hole has been attacked by gargoyles and three sheep killed
So what do you do?
Note that there is NO RIGHT ANSWER!!! So if the players decide to take off after Celerus the Nutpuncher, they could never find him, they could fight him and get punched in the nuts, they could throw in with him and join his Squeaky Men, or one of the PCs could punch HIM in the nuts and declare that SHE is the new Celerus the Nutpuncher! Like Dread Pirate Roberts, only with more nut punching.
Or, the PCs could say, "Sod this, we're going to hire a boat and look for the Island of Concupiscent Redheads to find the friendly and gentle Huge-Hootered Winklekisser."
Or the female PCs could say "To hell with you, WE're going to sail to the Island of Male Swimmers and Gymnasts who Cook and Give Foot Rubs."
Or something else."
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 30, 2016 16:47:59 GMT -5
To simplify this, Gary and I referred to it as rumor sheet. Sure there's no right answer, as whatever rumor is followed gives you leeway to create the matter for it along the way. But there's player agency and investment in having chosen, and that's the best part, because the DM can only be part of the blame for a bad outcome and not for all of it. I'll post a sample rumor sheet when I am not so busy, but it's similar Gronan's presentation with some added modifiers. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 30, 2016 17:23:27 GMT -5
Isn't she running for President in America this year? No, you are mistaken! What is America and what is a President, is that some new setting and class in D&D? In my Great Honk campaign, yeah. (GREAT response, Mighty Darci!) |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 30, 2016 17:36:42 GMT -5
To complicate this, I was always blessed with players who thought along these lines:
- What use would be the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness?
- Even if there is a use for the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, why in Nardna Pasta would someone steal them, or it?
- "the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness" is too stupid a name. There must be some reason for this nonsense.
For no reason other than being unable to stop wondering about the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, they would set off to recover them or it.
The most outlandish rumor seems to be the one they take seriously. This also applies to the internet and to politics. (Earth really wouldn't be believable as a fictional setting.)
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 30, 2016 18:15:18 GMT -5
mormonyoyoman, I have found that one should never discuss topics which involve politics, religion, or the great pumpkin.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 30, 2016 18:50:03 GMT -5
Especially the Great Pumpkin!!
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Post by Admin Pete on Oct 30, 2016 19:23:31 GMT -5
Especially the Great Pumpkin!! Yeah! No hating on the Great Pumpkin allowed! |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Oct 30, 2016 20:47:54 GMT -5
No, you are mistaken! What is America and what is a President, is that some new setting and class in D&D? ....I think I love you. Ahh! @gronanofsimmerya, that is so sweet!  It is also great to hear those words, when the guy has no idea what I look like! It also reminds me of a story my dad told me. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 22:47:12 GMT -5
To complicate this, I was always blessed with players who thought along these lines: - What use would be the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness? - Even if there is a use for the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, why in Nardna Pasta would someone steal them, or it? - "the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness" is too stupid a name. There must be some reason for this nonsense. For no reason other than being unable to stop wondering about the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, they would set off to recover them or it. The most outlandish rumor seems to be the one they take seriously. This also applies to the internet and to politics. (Earth really wouldn't be believable as a fictional setting.) If you ask what use the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness are, you are a single male. Every female player who has heard of them wants them. Rumor has it that Robliar is trying to recover the Golden Hootercups so that he can trade it back to the Temple of the Eager Virgin in exchange for the Peener of Vecna. And never use the phrase "too stupid a name" around me. I'm the guy who, when Phil Barker said "This dungeon is stupid. What do all these monsters eat?" put a McDonald's on the seventh level of the dungeon. |
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 31, 2016 2:42:22 GMT -5
mormonyoyoman , I have found that one should never discuss topics which involve politics, religion, or the great pumpkin. It was a Communist Manifesto to not discuss religion or politics/ As for Pumpkins, that sounds like "sweet" potato "revenge." (i.e., a "Pun-Kin"). |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 31, 2016 6:29:23 GMT -5
And never use the phrase "too stupid a name" around me. I'm the guy who, when Phil Barker said "This dungeon is stupid. What do all these monsters eat?" put a McDonald's on the seventh level of the dungeon. You're right; that is & nbsp. The 7th level is reserved for Dominators Pizza. McDonald's is always on the 666th level. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 31, 2016 6:31:20 GMT -5
It was a Communist Manifesto to not discuss religion or politics/ As for Pumpkins, that sounds like "sweet" potato "revenge." (i.e., a "Pun-Kin"). This is true. I saw it on YouTuber. |
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 31, 2016 7:59:54 GMT -5
To complicate this, I was always blessed with players who thought along these lines: - What use would be the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness? - Even if there is a use for the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, why in Nardna Pasta would someone steal them, or it? - "the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness" is too stupid a name. There must be some reason for this nonsense. For no reason other than being unable to stop wondering about the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness, they would set off to recover them or it. The most outlandish rumor seems to be the one they take seriously. This also applies to the internet and to politics. (Earth really wouldn't be believable as a fictional setting.) If you ask what use the Golden Hootercups of Eternal Perkiness are, you are a single male. Every female player who has heard of them wants them. Rumor has it that Robliar is trying to recover the Golden Hootercups so that he can trade it back to the Temple of the Eager Virgin in exchange for the Peener of Vecna. And never use the phrase "too stupid a name" around me. I'm the guy who, when Phil Barker said "This dungeon is stupid. What do all these monsters eat?" put a McDonald's on the seventh level of the dungeon. James Goodfellow had a Joke Middle Earth campaign where Moria had a McDonalds and a flying hamburger-saucer with Ronald throwing toxic and explosive food. He also had Galadriel in a "one piece" bathing suit, which piece, top or bottom, depending on her whim each particular day... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 14:40:33 GMT -5
Remember when your wizard in Ram's Horn fireballed Ronald McDonald on his flying hamburger? It made your wizard Lawful, too.
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Post by robkuntz on Oct 31, 2016 14:49:07 GMT -5
Remember when your wizard in Ram's Horn fireballed Ronald McDonald on his flying hamburger? It made your wizard Lawful, too. Yes! Maybe the flying hamburger was yours and Jimmy liked it so much when he heard it that he mimicked that for his ME Joke campaign. You may have been the distant inspiration for his erstwhile shenanigans. |
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It is also great to hear those words, when the guy has no idea what I look like!