Wizards and Clerics Attacking

[captainjapan]

Pg. 42 (absolute page numbering) Fighting Capabilities: Magic-Users and Clerics will not increase their fighting abilities as they progress, but Fighting Men will increase theirs (as well as their saving throws (see CHAINMAIL) at the 13th, 17th, and 21st levels by +1.



Pg. 49 Generally CHAINMAIL rules will apply as modified by the following:



Pg. 51 Fantasy vs. Fantasy: Because of the vast number of fantastic creatures and levels of men, a matrix to show hits is totally impractical (we know because we tried, but with 70 or more categories it becomes too unwieldy to handle). We therefore recommend that a system utilizing a 20-sided die (increments of 5%) be adopted. the basis for this will be the assumption that a man will require a score of 19 (90%) or better to hit an opponent in plate mail and shield.



Pg. 52 Magic-Users fight as men until the 7th level (enchanter) is attained. Hero -1 = 3rd level Fighter; Hero +1 = 5th level fighter; Wizard 1 = -1 = 6th level Fighter; and Wizard = 7th level.



Clerics fight as men until they attain 6th level. Thereafter, they fight as 3rd level (Warrior), 4th Level (Hero), and 5th Level (Swashbuckler) Fighters respectively for Curé, Abbé, and Patriarchs.

It seems like Clerics and Magic-Users are more disadvantaged in the draft version of the rules. When Gary increased the Attack Matrix from 9 Fighter levels to 16+ Fighter levels and made 1st level Fighters equivalent to Normal Men, did that give a significant combat boost to the Clerics and Magic-Users? It looks that way.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Feb 20, 2024 22:26:43 GMT -5 captainjapan said:

Pg. 42 (absolute page numbering) Fighting Capabilities: Magic-Users and Clerics will not increase their fighting abilities as they progress, but Fighting Men will increase theirs (as well as their saving throws (see CHAINMAIL) at the 13th, 17th, and 21st levels by +1.

Pg. 49 Generally CHAINMAIL rules will apply as modified by the following:

Pg. 51 Fantasy vs. Fantasy: Because of the vast number of fantastic creatures and levels of men, a matrix to show hits is totally impractical (we know because we tried, but with 70 or more categories it becomes too unwieldy to handle). We therefore recommend that a system utilizing a 20-sided die (increments of 5%) be adopted. the basis for this will be the assumption that a man will require a score of 19 (90%) or better to hit an opponent in plate mail and shield.

Pg. 52 Magic-Users fight as men until the 7th level (enchanter) is attained. Hero -1 = 3rd level Fighter; Hero +1 = 5th level fighter; Wizard 1 = -1 = 6th level Fighter; and Wizard = 7th level.

Clerics fight as men until they attain 6th level. Thereafter, they fight as 3rd level (Warrior), 4th Level (Hero), and 5th Level (Swashbuckler) Fighters respectively for Curé, Abbé, and Patriarchs.

It seems like Clerics and Magic-Users are more disadvantaged in the draft version of the rules. When Gary increased the Attack Matrix from 9 Fighter levels to 16+ Fighter levels and made 1st level Fighters equivalent to Normal Men, did that give a significant combat boost to the Clerics and Magic-Users? It looks that way.

Yeah, that is quite a change from what was published. It would, IMO, not be a big deal for Magic-Users, but it would really nerf the Cleric Class not to advance in fighting prowess. I think I would prefer this for Magic-Users even.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Feb 20, 2024 22:26:43 GMT -5 captainjapan said:

Pg. 52 Magic-Users fight as men until the 7th level (enchanter) is attained. Hero -1 = 3rd level Fighter; Hero +1 = 5th level fighter; Wizard 1 = -1 = 6th level Fighter; and Wizard = 7th level.

Clerics fight as men until they attain 6th level. Thereafter, they fight as 3rd level (Warrior), 4th Level (Hero), and 5th Level (Swashbuckler) Fighters respectively for Curé, Abbé, and Patriarchs.

This is interesting, Magic-Users make their first improvement as fighters at 7th level and Cleric make their first improvement at 6th level. I like this quite a bit. If I were going to change this, I might make it 8th and 5th respectively.

[Morose]

Feb 20, 2024 22:26:43 GMT -5 captainjapan said:

Pg. 42 (absolute page numbering) Fighting Capabilities: Magic-Users and Clerics will not increase their fighting abilities as they progress, but Fighting Men will increase theirs (as well as their saving throws (see CHAINMAIL) at the 13th, 17th, and 21st levels by +1.

Pg. 49 Generally CHAINMAIL rules will apply as modified by the following:

Pg. 51 Fantasy vs. Fantasy: Because of the vast number of fantastic creatures and levels of men, a matrix to show hits is totally impractical (we know because we tried, but with 70 or more categories it becomes too unwieldy to handle). We therefore recommend that a system utilizing a 20-sided die (increments of 5%) be adopted. the basis for this will be the assumption that a man will require a score of 19 (90%) or better to hit an opponent in plate mail and shield.

Pg. 52 Magic-Users fight as men until the 7th level (enchanter) is attained. Hero -1 = 3rd level Fighter; Hero +1 = 5th level fighter; Wizard 1 = -1 = 6th level Fighter; and Wizard = 7th level.

Clerics fight as men until they attain 6th level. Thereafter, they fight as 3rd level (Warrior), 4th Level (Hero), and 5th Level (Swashbuckler) Fighters respectively for Curé, Abbé, and Patriarchs.

It seems like Clerics and Magic-Users are more disadvantaged in the draft version of the rules. When Gary increased the Attack Matrix from 9 Fighter levels to 16+ Fighter levels and made 1st level Fighters equivalent to Normal Men, did that give a significant combat boost to the Clerics and Magic-Users? It looks that way.

captainjapan this is really interesting. While I think Clerics should increase in fighting ability, just not as fast as fighters, I like having Magic-Users never increase in fighting ability. That would be a really good way to play it IMO.

I also think that 1st level Fighters should be one step above normal men. They are Veterans after all.