The Minimal Dungeon

[robertsconley]

A couple of years back I created a  dungeon for my local game store group, the J Squad at Gold Star Anime in Edinboro PA.  I decided to do an experiment I call a minimal dungeon. The idea came to me through reading various discussions about Blackmoor, El Raja Key, Tegal Manor, Greyhawk, etc. Whenever you see part of notes they look ludicrously minimal aside from a few detailed setpieces. Something like Kitchen - 5 Orcs HD1 HP 5,5,4,3, Treasure 100 GPs in a sack on the table.
 So what going on here? Especially when we hear that many of these places were huge sprawling megadungeons. When we see official releases of mega dungeon many times is it is a fairly large box or thick book. More often we just don't see anything at all. I am thinking that everybody's expectations got skewed when the most of the early modules were tournament modules. 

In tournaments you need make things clear to make sure the module is fairly run for everybody. Which make sense since in part it is a competition between teams. However I don't think we need that level of detail at our tabletop. Yes if you are publishing you will need to devote some words to teach the referee how you designed the module and how it works in actual play. But beyond a certain point extra verbiage is probably excess weight. But where is that point? Where does it quit being something that save you time in running a fun session? When does it changes into something little better than what you get from having a computer randomly generate a dungeon? I don't know at this point but hopefully what I did will enlighten people to what would be a good answer.

The dungeon I will be using is this


Full Size Scan

It from an old composition book of graph paper that has a dozen of my earliest dungeons (the ones that survived). The original key is long lost so I reused the map and wrote up a new key.

After some reading and consideration I decided to use the Moldavy random dungeon content as the foundation. For the content I decided to use the original version of Gygax's Monster and Treasure assortments. For the upper levels that I am detailing today I am drawing from the 3rd level charts. 



So I roll up 24 locations according to Moldavy's chart and came up with this.




1a  - Empty
1b  - Monster, Treasure, No
1c  - Empty
1d  - Monster, Treasure, Yes
1e  - Trap, Treasure, Yes
1f  - Empty
2   - Monster, Treasure, No
3   - Special
4   - Monster, Treasure, No
5   - Special
6   - Empty, Treasure, No
7   - Monster, Treasure, Yes
8a  - Empty
8b  - Trap, Treasure, No
9a  - Empty
9b  - Special
10a - Monster, Treasure, No
10b - Monster, Treasure, Yes
10c - Special
10d - Special
10e - Monster, Treasure, No
10f - Monster, Treasure, Yes
10g - Monster, Treasure, No
10h - Special

#1 - Elven House
1a Entrance Chamber
Empty

1b Ruined Living Room
5 Orcs: HD 1; HP 3x7, 2 x 3; AC 6[13]; Atk 1 spear (1d6); Move 9; Save 17; CL/XP 1/15; Special: None.

1c Empty Room with debris

1d Room with debris 
Resting in this room is the warleader of the Orcs.
Orc Warleader: HD 4; HP 12; AC 6[13]; Atk 1 spear (1d6+2); Move 9; Save 17; CL/XP 1/15; Special: None.

1e, ruined bedroom.
Spike Trap 2d6 damage. A board with a spike is rigged to swing across the door opening
On the remains of a dressed is a jeweled box with over 1,000d treasure and paralyzation needle trap Save or be paralyzed for 24 hours.

1f Bedroom Closet
Empty

Note: Since this locale is a ruined elven temple is found in an orc infested forest, having an orc lair is an easy call.
Note: I make sure to include a one line brief description of the room. I think most referee can adlib the rest.


2 – Meditation Chapel
13 Giant Centipede (small, lethal): HD 1d2hp; AC 9[10]; Atk 1 bite (0 + poison); Move 13; Save 18; CL/XP 2/30; Special: poison bite (+4 save or die).
Note: To me the Mediation Chapel is an elven thing where they go to commune and relax. The 13 giant centipedes can be nasty if the party not smart about taking them out.

3 – Ancient Well
An overgrown well untended for generations, withered flowers and pitted bowls of rotten food are found in niches. If a new fresh offering is made the pixies living in there will grant a +1 bless lasting for 1d6 days to the entire party.
Note: The first special. Set it up as a boon for the party.

4 – Amphitheater
An ancient elven wight lives in room at the bottom of the Amphitheater. The room was used to store props and as a changing room.
Wight: HD 3; HP 18; AC 5[14]; Atk 1 claw (1hp + level drain); Move 9; Save 14; CL/XP 5/240; Special: Drain 1 level with hit, hit only by magic or silver weapons.
Note: Probably need to explain that it is sunken into the ground. As the map can be looked at either way.


5 – Dining Hall
When entered the party will see a hall with tables laden with food. When they sit down and start eating it will disappear showing the true ruined appearance. They will hear a sigh and get a feeling of great sadness. This will reset the next full moon.
Note: The transformation of the Elven realm into a wild forest controlled by Orcs was a tragedy this is meant to convey some of that sorrow. The second special result.

6 – The Kitchen
Rotten remains of a kitchen.
Note: I like to write locales that make sense. While I can understand the appeal of funhouse dungeons they are not really my forte.

7 – Storeroom
This room was the kitchen storeroom. Amid the piles of refuse are the two Giant Snakes and their treasure. A Potion of Fire Resistance and a jeweled Necklace worth 1,000d.
Giant Constrictor: HD 6; HP 28; AC 5[14]; Atk 1 bite (1d3), 1 constrict (2d4); Move 10; Save 11; CL/XP 7/600; Special: Constrict
Note: d = denarius = 1 silver penny = 1 silver piece. I price everything in silver, call the coins pennies as a flavor thing.

8 - Cottage
8a – Bedroom
The ruined remains of the Bedroom of a Cottage

8b - Closet
The topshelf of the closet is rotted causing it to collapse when the door is opened. Save or suffer 2d6 damage. In the fallen junk you find 1,200d.
Note: Trap with treasure at least there is some consolation for the pain.

9 - Cottage
9a – Bedroom
The ruined remains of the Bedroom of a Cottage

9b – Closet
In the pile of junk there is a music box.
Note: The music box can serve as a lead into another adventure.

10-Temple of the Elves
10a –Temple Steps
8 Giant Rats surry around the temple steps
Giant Rat: HD 1d4hp; HP 4 x 3, 3 x2, 2 x 2, 1x 1 AC 7[12]; Atk 1 bite (1d3); Move 12; Save 18; CL/XP A/5; Special: 5% are diseased.

10b – Rubble pile
2 Monstrous Rats lie hidden guarding their treasure of 2,800d.
Monstrously Huge Giant Rat: HD 3; HP 10, 8; AC 6[13]; Atk 2 claws (1d3),1 bite (1d6); Move 12; Save 14; CL/XP 3/120; Special: 5% are diseased.
The party approaches the temple there are giant rats scurrying around the steps.
Note: I think this is a great evocative scene. However I think I need to explain the setup with the Monstrous Rats a bit better. Basically the players will see piles of refuse and check them out. The Monstrous rats are a gotcha moment.

10c – Alcove of Elders
The half dozen statues along this wall depict various noteworthy elders, scholars, and sages of the elves. Meditating in front of one of the Statues will cause the following spells to be cast. One time for 1 person every full moon.

1 Cast Healing (4d6+2 hp healed), “Virtue is healing.”
2 Cast Dark Vision, “One must see one’s enemies”
3 Create Food, “An army doesn’t walk on it’s stomach.
4 Shield (duration 24 hours, AC 15 melee, 17 missile), “A good defense helps when a good offense fails”
5 Haste (doubles speed and attack for 24 hours), “A good offense is better than a good defense”
6 Strength (duration 24 hours, 2d4 strength, fighter, 1d6 strength clerics, theives), “Sometimes power is best when brought directly on your enemy”.

10d – Alcove of Heroes
The half dozen statues along this wall depict various noteworthy heroes of the elves. Meditating in front of one of the statue will confer the following effect for 24 hours 1 time only for all six.

1 Raises Strength (1d6) “He could bear the load of a dozen.”
2 Raises Intelligence, “He outfought his enemies by his wits”
3 Raises Wisdom, “None was a better strategist”
4 Raises Dexterity “If you saw his blade, it was too late.”
5 Raises Constitution, “He persevered where others fail.”
6 Raises Charisma, “Thousand would gladly follow him into the abyss.”
Note: This is was a fun set of special to write and it played really well. Probably need a sentence or two explaining the setup a little better.

10e - Altar
A centipede swarm lives around the altar.
Centipede Swarm: HD n/a; AC n/a; Atk 1 (1hp + non-lethal poison); Move 4; Save 18; CL/XP 1/15; Special: non-lethal poison.
Note: This played out totally hilarious in the game as one member of the party rushes to check out the altar.

10f – Storeroom
Various items used in the temple were stored here. 2 evil Curates are here preparing to haul various items to begin a ritual to desecrate the main temple. In a large chest along with ritual implements is +1 Sword of Silvanus (they planned on destroying this in the ritual) and 600 gold pennies.
Evil Curate; AC 2[17]; 5th level Clerics; HP 24,16; HTB +2; ATK 1 DMG 1d6 (Mace); MV 60’; Save: 10: Mace, +1 Mace, 30d; Spells: Cause Light Wounds, Protection from Good, Hold Person, Curse, Prayer

The main fight of the ground level. If I publish this need to add a few sentences here and at the beginning to explain that this is a Temple of Silvanus that these guys are going to desecrate for their evil plan. That they are demon cultists

10g – Vestry
This is was the office of the Head Druid of the Temple. Now there are 12 Orc minions of the curate lounging around eating and drinking. If they hear fighting outside they will respond in 2d6 round as they are more than a little drunk. A party has automatic surprise on the Orcs.
Orc: HD 1; HP 3x7, 3 x 3, 3 x 5, 3 x 8; AC 6[13]; Atk 1 spear (1d6); Move 9; Save 17; CL/XP 1/15; Special: None.
Note: The drunken orc bit could be consider a bit of a funhouse but also plays to the naturalistic side of how I run things. Not every orc guarding a chest in a 10 by 10 room is going to be on the ball.


10h - Closet
This is a locked closet where the vestments and items used in temple services are stored.
Note: Could just be ignored as flavor text but players into roleplaying could use this as a way of renewing the temple for the glory of the old gods. I also need to flesh it out to show that these are of the old elven gods not the Demon Cultists.

Final Thoughts
I think things will come together the more I write using this format along with running game sessions. One thing I noticed is that I got more verbose the further I wrote. During the writing of Level 1 I kept the short and simple descriptions more consistent in length and brevity.

[tetramorph]

So awesomely immediately usable!

You're point is exactly right: less is more. Just the stats, please - and a couple cool clues and descriptions .

Otherwise, trust me as the ref to fill it with my own imagination!

Awesome! Thanks!

[DeWitt]

I agree it's not the word-count but the weight-of-words that counts. I'm reminded of Calvino's Perseus being able to see the indirect through lightness. That's where the line would be for me.

For example in 8a Bedroom.

"the ruined remains of the bedroom in a cottage"
We have a short sentence full of abstract nouns.  We have little-to-no possibilities here.

Mixing concrete nouns and some image turns into:

8a Bedroom
"Opening the door, the stench of forgotten intimates swells the nostrils. Violent heirlooms litter the room like a battlefield. Light, like the life once found here, flees through the door whispering "beware" as it dies one last time."

That needs work but in three sentences a lot is  going on.

What kind of intimates? A relationship? Underwear? Maybe it means moldering personal belongings.
What link has it with the dungeon? What heirlooms? What does it mean, violent? Weapons? Ruined cupboards? A cursed locket?
Why would you have to be aware? Was this door trapped with a Rune of Silent Alarm? Is the furniture alive? Maybe the floorboards are weak in certain spots.

Repeating an image of star-cross lovers or a satanic family over the dungeon's rooms and you have a theme to hang your dungeon-stocking on with out adding weight or providing a singular interpretation from the DM reading it.

[Admin Pete]

Thank you otto, I mean DeWitt that is excellent!

[robertsconley]

Sept 10, 2016 13:23:45 GMT -5 DeWitt said:

8a Bedroom
"Opening the door, the stench of forgotten intimates swells the nostrils. Violent heirlooms litter the room like a battlefield. Light, like the life once found here, flees through the door whispering "beware" as it dies one last time."

I agree that there are times more description is warranted. That what I did with this

When entered the party will see a hall with tables laden with food. When they sit down and start eating it will disappear showing the true ruined appearance. They will hear a sigh and get a feeling of great sadness. This will reset the next full moon.

But there are also times when a ruined bedroom is just a ruined bedroom. This is where we have to chalk it up to creative differences.

Sept 10, 2016 13:23:45 GMT -5 DeWitt said:

"the ruined remains of the bedroom in a cottage"
We have a short sentence full of abstract nouns.  We have little-to-no possibilities here.

My thought on the minimal dungeon gelled after running Tegel Manor for a year of a campaign. With Tegel Manor you have a name of a room, some notes on a map, and a brief description any special content. Now if the product only was of a small medieval manor with 6 to 8 rooms I would have felt the author could have done more. However Tegel is a sprawling mega dungeon with over a hundred rooms and four dungeon levels packed into a 32 page book.

Granted Tegel is perhaps too terse and need just a tad more on what was going on overall. However it worked great for me. Because prior that I noticed something about the stuff that was being shown and said about Gygax's Greyhawk, Arneson's Blackmoor, and our own Kuntz's El Raja Key. That outside of what I call "set pieces", the descriptions were litterly room title, and a brief note of the contents. That it was obvious to me from the actual play account is that all three of them (and others from the same time) ad-libbed way through most of the dungeon. They were able to keep things consistent because when you look at the whole picture of an area, you see enough of the pattern to see what it is about in my case, Or in their case enough jog their memory as to what their original intention was for the area.

Rob can correct me if I am off base on this but this is what makes sense to me given the few pages of stuff that was shown and from hearing how they refereed. Rob's upcoming CD will be of great interest to me as it should offer more insight on this matter.

Later I put this to the test by creating my own megadungeon the Majestic Fastness. And sure it worked pretty well although I will add I had more overview notes than what was in Bledsaw's Tegel.

Again as to your point, yes areas should get more descriptions went warranted by the author judgment. Notes on how everything fits together for the dungeon and various areas of the dungeons should be included but they don't need to be voluminous. Finally a few specific areas will be likely be written up in tournament style due to their complexity.

I believe this approach will making publishing megadungeons feasible both in the author's time, resources, and final product cost. While still being of value to a referee with limited time for his hobby.

[Admin Pete]

Excellent post robertsconley!

[DeWitt]

What I was getting at was that a text should add possibilities. How much is up to the writer.

I was demonstrating one way of going about writing a dungeon with nothing but a key. There's nothing wrong with a chair being just a chair but I feel if you're writing for others to use then that concrete object approach leaves very little in the way of generating ideas from the text.

If a reader wishes it to be just a bedroom, that's cool. However, new ideas can be constantly generated from reading such a key.

I feel that's the point of minimalist writing. To add possibilities into the text by allowing the reader to fill in between the lines.

[Admin Pete]

Sept 12, 2016 9:12:59 GMT -5 DeWitt said:

What I was getting at was that a text should add possibilities. How much is up to the writer.

I was demonstrating one way of going about writing a dungeon with nothing but a key. There's nothing wrong with a chair being just a chair but I feel if you're writing for others to use then that concrete object approach leaves very little in the way of generating ideas from the text.

If a reader wishes it to be just a bedroom, that's cool. However, new ideas can be constantly generated from reading such a key.

I feel that's the point of minimalist writing. To add possibilities into the text by allowing the reader to fill in between the lines.

As you note it is up to the writer. Some rooms have nothing of note and some do. Each of you can decide what that balance is for yourself. I like large dungeons so there are a lot of rooms with not much in them and a smaller number that are jam-packed with a number of different things and directions to go.

[DeWitt]

Sept 12, 2016 9:30:01 GMT -5 Admin Pete said:

Sept 12, 2016 9:12:59 GMT -5 DeWitt said:

What I was getting at was that a text should add possibilities. How much is up to the writer.

I was demonstrating one way of going about writing a dungeon with nothing but a key. There's nothing wrong with a chair being just a chair but I feel if you're writing for others to use then that concrete object approach leaves very little in the way of generating ideas from the text.

If a reader wishes it to be just a bedroom, that's cool. However, new ideas can be constantly generated from reading such a key.

I feel that's the point of minimalist writing. To add possibilities into the text by allowing the reader to fill in between the lines.

As you note it is up to the writer. Some rooms have nothing of note and some do. Each of you can decide what that balance is for yourself. I like large dungeons so there are a lot of rooms with not much in them and a smaller number that are jam-packed with a number of different things and directions to go.

Yeah, I understand. I'm not saying any way is wrong. Just spitballing.

[robertsconley]

Sept 12, 2016 9:12:59 GMT -5 DeWitt said:

What I was getting at was that a text should add possibilities. How much is up to the writer.

I was demonstrating one way of going about writing a dungeon with nothing but a key. There's nothing wrong with a chair being just a chair but I feel if you're writing for others to use then that concrete object approach leaves very little in the way of generating ideas from the text.

If a reader wishes it to be just a bedroom, that's cool. However, new ideas can be constantly generated from reading such a key.

I feel that's the point of minimalist writing. To add possibilities into the text by allowing the reader to fill in between the lines.

I agree that the text should add possibilities. But here the thing, the hallmark tournament style dungeon is to spell everything out so that every referee, more or less, run it in the same way. This is done to be fair in a tournament setup. Which is a good goal for a tournament.

When it comes to publishing an adventure/dungeon however that shouldn't be my concern. My concern is to convey my vision of the dungeon in a way that useful for a referee to use in his own campaign. If to you, as a author, view a room just a ruined bedroom littered with trash and nothing more. Then use that. Save your energy for the thing you do have a vision for or feel that should be fleshed out. Don't feel like you have to embellish every room with possibilities. Otherwise, even writing tersely, you will fall into the same trap as the format of tournament style dungeons and find yourself constrained on time, resources, and/or page count.

And yes is some point, that too much plain and terse prose will led to a clear conclusion of "How this product worth my money?" So it is a balancing act. But if you find yourself being stymied at having to fill every room with something evocative. Then relax and quit trying to do that. 

The point I am raising was also from my experience in trying to flesh out my megadungeon the Majestic Fastness. I found that I only a dozen or two solid ideas for any given areas with three to four time as many room. My solution was to use random generators to fill the content of those room (including just plain ruined or empty). And if that didn't spark an idea but the content otherwise were plausible. I just left it very plain and matter of fact.

Room #93 Storeroom
A room filled with debris and litter. There are 6 giant rats nosing around with 2,000 coppers scattered about the floor.

That room was in area where there were a bunch of sorcerors busy transforming captured dwarves into giant scorpions with a clan of ogre living in the next complex of room over that acted as their bodyguards. In comparison those two area had more fleshed our descriptions. The ogres were planned to be in this area. The sorcerers, dwarves, and giant scorpions game from an idea sparked from the result of rolling on the monster and treasure assortments.  


If you took care with everything else in the product, I think Room #93 would inspire some referees to flesh it out more given the context of the area. Maybe the 2,000 copper pennies is a lost bag from one of the ogres, maybe they dumped there by the sorcerors looking to get rid of them. Maybe the giant rats are more intelligent than usual and been collecting them from all over the level. Maybe a sorcerer trained the giant rats to collect them and he uses them as a focus for scrying to see what he can see. However at the time,

I didn't think of this at the time because I was busy detailing a level of 60+ rooms. In this post I focus on that one room so hence some ideas flow out. One problem with megadungeons is that you sitting looking at room after room. And attempting to do it tournament style turn it into drudgery. One reason for me making the Majestic Fastness was to see how I can eliminate the drudgery.

Finally I am not trying to nitpick what you are saying. But your reply are reminding me of other things I have explored about this issue. So please view this as "and another thing" type of reply rather than trying to disagree with your point.

[DeWitt]

It’s cool Robert, I’m not reading you as nitpicking or argumentative. Internet communication takes time, you’ve no way of knowing how easy going I am, nor I you. I was just clarifying in case anybody was reading me argumentatively.

To clarify, my example needs work. I was exaggerating for effect. I’m not saying every room needs three sentences, rather that it is possible to have every room contain possibilities.

I feel 12 ideas is too much. I feel that a dungeon should have 1 idea. Repetition is the key. I’m not a professional or hobbyist writer so you might see flaws I can’t. Even so, let me try to explain it with another technique.

I want a dungeon theme to be Chaos. I open up www.dictionary.com and type Chaos then switch to synonyms. I get:

Noun utter confusion – okay, that’s cool. I'll remember that when making my design decisions.

Then I get:

anarchy disarray discord disorder
lawlessness pandemonium tumult turmoil
ataxia bedlam clutter disorganization
entropy free-for-all misrule mix-up
mobocracy muddle snarl unruliness

I have a list of words that reinforce the theme. I go down the page doing the same thing for each related word, generating more text as I go. I'm also adding more definitions to reinforce my design.

i.e I have the definition of "utter confusion". I decide I want 2 set piece monsters. And I already know they will have confusion based spells/powers/moves. Same for traps. I want to repeat and reinforce my theme. Hm, I could use shifting corridors and memory based puzzles or maybe random teleportation etc.

Basically, I think it’s possible to achieve if you use repetition to effect. A “cluttered bedroom with muddled breath” may seem insignificant but over the module the images build up. Not to mention the room itself generates questions which can turn into ideas. Muddled breath? What’s that mean?

I hope this makes it clearer.

[scottanderson]

1. Of the excellent high quality I would expect from you, Rob.

2. Most TSR and early Wizards era modules are padded out with gobs of useless text. 32 pages; five to ten pages of gamable content. Boxed text is 99% garbage. Prelude or backstory text is 90% garbage. Give me what I need to run that room, which is nearly zero, and maybe a hint as to what is going on with the nearby faction.

3. You all are no doubt familiar with the two-page dungeon. This is not two pages, but the brevity is on par with those efforts.

4. Rob, how long did it take you to generate this content?

[robertsconley]

Appreciate the kind words.

Jun 26, 2017 21:25:27 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

3. You all are no doubt familiar with the two-page dungeon. This is not two pages, but the brevity is on par with those efforts.

It is a balancing act. It not a matter of trying to use the least amount of words it a matter of finding the right amount of words to use for me to teach you how I ran the adventure to save you some time in your own campaign. Too few, you are left guessing and having to do work. Too many you have to read through a lot to find the useful material. However in general most people, including myself start off too verbose.

Jun 26, 2017 21:25:27 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

4. Rob, how long did it take you to generate this content?

To be usable? two evenings, to present it for everybody here, tack on another evening. One to draw the map, one to generate the key in a form that I could use it in a campaign, the last to format it and slightly flesh it out so I could post it in a coherent enough form for everybody to follow along. If I was to take it to publication I would run it a few times, get a sense of how players approached it, then incorporate those insights into the text. That would take a couple of evenings and sessions to pull off.

For example if you look at the map, what would the PC likely to hit and what order they were explore things? Would be utterly random? Or would patterns emerge? The only way to be sure is to run it multiple times and take notes afterwards. The downside is of course that the process is time consuming. But today with the internet being what it is and the availability of Roll20, one doesn't need to physically travel to get this kind of playtesting done.

[scottanderson]

Four or five evenings, then submit the manuscript... have the whole thing printed and shipped in two weeks! There are a very few other folks who work that fast but it's still amazing to me you can do that.

Maybe I'll play with Wizardawn's dungeon generator and see how long it takes me to make a simple dungeon. Or maybe I'll just continue to use the ones other folks make!

[Admin Pete]

Jun 27, 2017 0:09:57 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

Four or five evenings, then submit the manuscript... have the whole thing printed and shipped in two weeks! There are a very few other folks who work that fast but it's still amazing to me you can do that.

Maybe I'll play with Wizardawn's dungeon generator and see how long it takes me to make a simple dungeon. Or maybe I'll just continue to use the ones other folks make!

Yeah, I am impressed too, putting it all on paper, especially to publish is difficult, which is why I haven't done it. (well that and time).

[robertsconley]

Jun 27, 2017 0:09:57 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

Four or five evenings, then submit the manuscript... have the whole thing printed and shipped in two weeks! There are a very few other folks who work that fast but it's still amazing to me you can do that.

Maybe I'll play with Wizardawn's dungeon generator and see how long it takes me to make a simple dungeon. Or maybe I'll just continue to use the ones other folks make!

Well to be fair I haven't taken advantage of this to crank out product for publication. So there may be some hidden gothcas will require modification of the procedure to make something people will find useful to buy. But as a procedure for making stuff for an ongoing campaign? I feel it solid. I been using it for the past couple years to detail dungeon/adventure locales.

For publication What I am shooting for in the long term is something I am calling a mega-wilderness. Specifically a description of entire forest several centuries after the downfall of a elven kingdom.



I don't want to publish a umpteen page book. I rather figure out the most compact format to present multiple adventure sites. No only this makes the page count reasonable it makes managing the information reasonable. Hence my interest in the minimal dungeon, Tegal Manor, and maps that works with the text as far as description goes. My feeling is that the smaller the I can make the complete description of Dearthwood the more use it will be to other folks. But too small means that it just puts them back in the same boat as generating everything from scratch.

Finally as a general note related to my discussion of what I did to create Scourge of the Demon Wolf. The goal of my published adventures is to set the table so to speak. To save time, energy, and work for buyer for his campaign in prep. How those individual pieces combine during the actual campaign is still something the referee will have to figure out. All I can do is report how it worked out for me.

In addition no matter how comprehensive a description of locale I write may seem it still just a slice of a large world with a life of it own. If you look at the map I attached there are plenty of white spaces for the referee own ideas to take hold. And even in the places marked on the map the possibilities are enormous. The Leporous Hand Orcs could have a orc shaman dabbling in necromancy while another orc and his buddies harvest hallucinogenic mushrooms in the woods and work with smugglers supplying drug dens in City State.

The gold standard for me is the location articles made for Harn. You can get a taste from the fan made Harn Pottage series. Fair warning Columbia Games prices things at a premium level.

[Admin Pete]

I like your map, that is sweet!

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

I missed this thread but I'm so glad I followed the link from a BUMP. This is AWESOME! I have been guilty in the past of trying to give out as much info as possible trying to guess what the next decision by the players might be. This way makes way more sense and I will strive to adjust how I do things. Excellent post!

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Feb 10, 2024 8:37:52 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

I missed this thread but I'm so glad I followed the link from a BUMP. This is AWESOME! I have been guilty in the past of trying to give out as much info as possible trying to guess what the next decision by the players might be. This way makes way more sense and I will strive to adjust how I do things. Excellent post!

Yeah, a great blast from the past!

[Deleted]

This is a great thread. I work in comms and preach "minimum effective dose" -- just enough copy to make the point. I've used this kind of description in the past -- details in the order they'd be noticed in real life.

1. Monster (if there is one), nice tight OD&D stats and one word to describe what they're doing eg. hunting.
2. Sensory - if there is a dominant smell, lighting, weird walls, whatever. I use one.
3. Props - the stuff the players can interact with.

Here's an example


- Three orcs playing poker AC: 6, HD:1, HP: 4, 3, 6
- The room smells like rotten fish -- the orcs have been playing a long time.
- Three wood chairs, a wooden table, and 23 sp in the "pot".

And then I improvise. If I'm playing with a mapper, I'll obviously include room dimensions, doors etc.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jun 5, 2024 8:42:29 GMT -5 @chieftorchbearer said:

This is a great thread. I work in comms and preach "minimum effective dose" -- just enough copy to make the point. I've used this kind of description in the past -- details in the order they'd be noticed in real life.

1. Monster (if there is one), nice tight OD&D stats and one word to describe what they're doing eg. hunting.
2. Sensory - if there is a dominant smell, lighting, weird walls, whatever. I use one.
3. Props - the stuff the players can interact with.

Here's an example


- Three orcs playing poker AC: 6, HD:1, HP: 4, 3, 6
- The room smells like rotten fish -- the orcs have been playing a long time.
- Three wood chairs, a wooden table, and 23 sp in the "pot".

And then I improvise. If I'm playing with a mapper, I'll obviously include room dimensions, doors etc.

This is the way I do it, I just don't write any of it out ahead of time, I improv all of it as the game progresses, always have.

[gorm]

Jun 5, 2024 8:42:29 GMT -5 @chieftorchbearer said:

This is a great thread. I work in comms and preach "minimum effective dose" -- just enough copy to make the point. I've used this kind of description in the past -- details in the order they'd be noticed in real life.

1. Monster (if there is one), nice tight OD&D stats and one word to describe what they're doing eg. hunting.
2. Sensory - if there is a dominant smell, lighting, weird walls, whatever. I use one.
3. Props - the stuff the players can interact with.

Here's an example


- Three orcs playing poker AC: 6, HD:1, HP: 4, 3, 6
- The room smells like rotten fish -- the orcs have been playing a long time.
- Three wood chairs, a wooden table, and 23 sp in the "pot".

And then I improvise. If I'm playing with a mapper, I'll obviously include room dimensions, doors etc.

Great post @chieftorchbearer, that is old school.