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Post by JMiskimen on Dec 27, 2022 7:32:44 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Fornicating Under Consent of the King to WotC.
The last thing I want to see is WotC reap any more profits from 0D&D.
No, John, tell us how you really feel about celebrating 0D&D this year and next year's 50th Anniversary ...
When they reprinted the boxed set, they changed the artwork on the covers. When they re-release various AD&D books, those books came with disclaimers no one asked for. They have scorned old school players in their publications. Do you really think, given the direction the company is going, re-releasing 0D&D will be a good thing?
Fortunately, their distorted vision is very focused on One D&D and the devolution and degradation of the 'Brand.' All this talk of discontinuing the OGL is set to discourage/ destroy 3rd Party Content, which if as draconian as the leaks sound, will cripple the OSR. As much as I'm no fan of the '0$R,' there is no denying that it's what generated as much interest in 0D&D as there is today.
Sure, One D&D will have it's subscribers, but there will also be a lot of disillusioned players (soon) and we have an opportunity to placate some of those who seek a familiar, simple, rules light systems that is truly modular to the style of play they wish in 0D&D.
Our celebration of 0D&D must be kindled among us firstly. Of course, discussing nuances of the rules and our campaigns is vital to keeping this fire going, and I vow to do this in upcoming posts - and then some. Yet as referees, which I'll assume most of you reading this qualify as, we need to do a little more. Pass on and share 0D&D much more than ever. Now please understand, I am not condoning or encouraging internet piracy, but I would encourage printing your pdfs into books - if you haven't already, which arguably, is one intention of owning an electronic documents - either through Lulu or Staples/Office Depot (or whatever service you choose) as what is personally needed for your Table of Players; and as they evolve into referees with their own Table of Players, perhaps they do the same. A grass root effort will be 1,000 times better for our celebration of the venerable game, rather than funding WotC any further than we have to.
For those who do not own a pdf of 0D&D and refuse to fund WotC in any fashion, there are a few OSR games that are pretty darn close to 0D&D, such as Delving Deeper, Swords & Wizardry - White Box, Seven Voyages of Zylarthen, Spellcraft & Swordplay, and Fantastic Medieval Campaigns to name a few off the top of my head - all of which a quick google search should give you the access you need. However, be aware, the writing on the wall in the form of a new OGL (or lack there of) may make these games unavailable in the future. But enough doom and gloom ... Roll Initiative!
JM. |
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Post by JMiskimen on Jan 3, 2023 12:15:33 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Campaigns Aren't What They Used To Be ...
As I read the Forward, Introduction, Scope, and Preparation at the beginning of Book 1: Men & Magic, I get the distinct notion that Gary uses the word Campaign differently than more modern readers might interpret the term. By modern standards, a Campaign would be a series of scenarios or adventures with a defined end. What Gygax describes would be thought of as a Campaign Setting, possibly stand alone and separate from a series of adventures that might make up a given Campaign within that Setting. This new way of looking at the term probably came about from corporate thinking/suggestion/brainwashing to sell more products. I'm not particularly complaining about that, but from the very opening chapter, we find that in order to 'grok' what Gary is saying, we need to ... unlearn what we think we know and simply understand what he is saying.
Originally, it seems, Gygax is explaining to anyone looking to play this game, that you would create a Campaign ... a unique device that housed a base of operations for players to start from and some place, like a dungeon, to explore. He is calling on referee to do a bit of ground laying right off the bat, but after reading the 3LBB's, he gives quite a bit of guidance on how to do that to excite soon-to-be referees. There are no grand sweeping adventures at this point, but will be a series of encounters that will happen that might, in after-play, come off as an adventure or story.
As play continues, Referees may further develop the Campaign as he sees fit, however, the actions of the player characters will likely/should likely influence this Campaign.
Later on, Gygax insists upon accurate time keeping at a 1:1 ratio. this is not to say several days cannot transpire in a single session, but time in between sessions must be accounted for regarding large groups of players active in the Campaign. This also encourages the generation of new multiple character/player when certain characters are unavailable for play because of the restraints of consistent and accurate timekeeping. Herein is also the birthplace of downtime activities such as training, inscribing scrolls, and spell research, etc.
No ... I'm pretty sure neither Dave or Gary thought of the term exactly as one another ... and certainly not as the modern reader might absorb it, but I feel we can only derive meaning as it was meant from the text, and that is 1,000% more satisfying to my creative juices than purchasing and being beholden to any module, book, boxed-set, what have you.
Postscript: Despite the above opinion, I rather like Blackmoor, Greyhawk, The JG Wilderlands, Mystara, The Original Forgotten Realms, and even Dark Sun and Planescape to a degree. I've had a lot of fun with all the above and have taken many cues from all of them - I just have more fun with my own stuff ... As always, YMMV and discussion to any and all of these posts is welcomed and encouraged!
JM.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 3, 2023 18:42:26 GMT -5
Great insights and I will have some thoughts in response later...
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 14, 2023 17:29:53 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Fornicating Under Consent of the King to WotC.
The last thing I want to see is WotC reap any more profits from 0D&D.
No, John, tell us how you really feel about celebrating 0D&D this year and next year's 50th Anniversary ...
When they reprinted the boxed set, they changed the artwork on the covers. When they re-release various AD&D books, those books came with disclaimers no one asked for. They have scorned old school players in their publications. Do you really think, given the direction the company is going, re-releasing 0D&D will be a good thing?
....snipped...
For those who do not own a pdf of 0D&D and refuse to fund WotC in any fashion, there are a few OSR games that are pretty darn close to 0D&D, such as Delving Deeper, Swords & Wizardry - White Box, Seven Voyages of Zylarthen, Spellcraft & Swordplay, and Fantastic Medieval Campaigns to name a few off the top of my head - all of which a quick google search should give you the access you need. However, be aware, the writing on the wall in the form of a new OGL (or lack there of) may make these games unavailable in the future.
Yeah, reprinting the OD&D books with different covers should have been an early sign for their intentions. Further insight should definitely have come from including those ridiculous disclaimers. I speak as a fan with a dream when I say I would like for them to make OD&D print on demand for the 50th anniversary. I'm sure they would muck that up with more disclaimers or even more changed artwork and further attempts to "modernize" the product. I own several of those OSR games you mentioned above, and I echo your sentiments about picking one of them up. Back for more momentarily... |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 14, 2023 17:48:19 GMT -5
Another really good clone of OD&D and Greyhawk is Iron Falcon.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 16, 2023 11:05:47 GMT -5
Campaigns Aren't What They Used To Be ...
As I read the Forward, Introduction, Scope, and Preparation at the beginning of Book 1: Men & Magic, I get the distinct notion that Gary uses the word Campaign differently than more modern readers might interpret the term. By modern standards, a Campaign would be a series of scenarios or adventures with a defined end. What Gygax describes would be thought of as a Campaign Setting, possibly stand alone and separate from a series of adventures that might make up a given Campaign within that Setting. This new way of looking at the term probably came about from corporate thinking/suggestion/brainwashing to sell more products. I'm not particularly complaining about that, but from the very opening chapter, we find that in order to 'grok' what Gary is saying, we need to ... unlearn what we think we know and simply understand what he is saying.
Originally, it seems, Gygax is explaining to anyone looking to play this game, that you would create a Campaign ... a unique device that housed a base of operations for players to start from and some place, like a dungeon, to explore. He is calling on referee to do a bit of ground laying right off the bat, but after reading the 3LBB's, he gives quite a bit of guidance on how to do that to excite soon-to-be referees. There are no grand sweeping adventures at this point, but will be a series of encounters that will happen that might, in after-play, come off as an adventure or story.
As play continues, Referees may further develop the Campaign as he sees fit, however, the actions of the player characters will likely/should likely influence this Campaign.
Postscript: Despite the above opinion, I rather like Blackmoor, Greyhawk, The JG Wilderlands, Mystara, The Original Forgotten Realms, and even Dark Sun and Planescape to a degree. I've had a lot of fun with all the above and have taken many cues from all of them - I just have more fun with my own stuff ... As always, YMMV and discussion to any and all of these posts is welcomed and encouraged!
JM.
I think you are spot on with your observations. Campaigns were different back then and their presentation has definitely evolved over the years. I prefer something akin to what you mentioned above with possibilities and hints that might lead here or there through the play of the game. Treating a campaign setting as a by the numbers list of destination points is lackluster. Oh, it can be fun and will provide a decent enough gaming experience for a time, but it can be much better if it's not so static and detailed. It's much better to start off with some basic details and see where it leads along the way. It's always better to be able to adjust things on the fly because you don't go into every microdetail while setting up your campaign. Insightful thoughts in your posts and I look forward to hearing more. |
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Post by Morose on Jan 16, 2023 14:13:16 GMT -5
With all the OGL fuss going on right now, instead of building goodwill with a focus on making the most out of next year's 50th Anniversary, they are going to drive people to the pirate way. If they take all the older stuff off drive thru, I saw someone lamenting that OD&D will be lost. No it will just have the old pdfs (not the new one on drive thru) more widely distributed.
Not that I would ever encourage anything like that of course.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 16, 2023 15:11:05 GMT -5
With all the OGL fuss going on right now, instead of building goodwill with a focus on making the most out of next year's 50th Anniversary, they are going to drive people to the pirate way. If they take all the older stuff off drive thru, I saw someone lamenting that OD&D will be lost. No it will just have the old pdfs (not the new one on drive thru) more widely distributed. Not that I would ever encourage anything like that of course. Absolutely! |
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Post by JMiskimen on Feb 9, 2023 6:23:12 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Just a Simple Question This Month ...
This has probably been asked before, but it's something new to me. When looking for ability score bonuses in the 3LBBs, they are minimal, which I already knew; but the Strength ability has no bonus for exceptional values. This struck me a little off guard, as most retroclones provide for 13+ scores with at least a +1. I'm assuming this is extrapolated from Greyhawk, but I'm also guessing this derives from Men & Magic's handling of exceptional Constitution?
This is very relevant to me, as I've been expirementing with Chainmail Man to Man combat, and Greyhawk bonuses skew results a bit much, in my opinion.
Discuss ...?
JM.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 9, 2023 14:09:52 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Just a Simple Question This Month ... This has probably been asked before, but it's something new to me. When looking for ability score bonuses in the 3LBBs, they are minimal, which I already knew; but the Strength ability has no bonus for exceptional values. This struck me a little off guard, as most retroclones provide for 13+ scores with at least a +1. I'm assuming this is extrapolated from Greyhawk, but I'm also guessing this derives from Men & Magic's handling of exceptional Constitution?
This is very relevant to me, as I've been experimenting with Chainmail Man to Man combat, and Greyhawk bonuses skew results a bit much, in my opinion.
Discuss ...?
JM. Yeah, if you are going with Chainmail Man to Man combat, I would not use anything except monsters and maybe some of the spells from Greyhawk. As far as the retroclones, most of them, even ones that claim to be for OD&D borrow from later versions. I have not read them that close, but have you checked Delving Deeper? Delving Deeper is, I believe the most faithful OD&D retro clone. Iron Falcon is the most faithful OD&D plus Greyhawk retro clone. My guess would be though that the bonuses are mostly borrowed from B/X D&D. |
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Post by JMiskimen on Mar 2, 2023 9:06:31 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Picking Your Brain a Bit ...
As for my monthly post about 0D&D, I have an unpopular view of some optional rules presented in Eldritch Wizardry.
You guessed it; Psionics.
Most folks I know feel the Psionics rules are inappropriate to Fantasy Roleplaying to completely unplayable as written. I, however, find the rules formatted oddly in the book, but 0D&D players should be completely unfazed by that. The rules as written are not much more complex than numerous spell point systems introduced in various supplements, old and new.
So, with that out of the way, why so much disdain for Psi powers?
First of all, they are a rarity, by design - unless you're adapting Dark Sun, which is a challenge that would absolutely rock, IMHO. Maybe folks have been accustomed to Sci-Fi representations of Psionics - Traveller, I'm looking at you. Maybe I'm just too new school in that the idea of different kinds of powers/magic to exist in a given campaign sounds seriously cool. One could paint it with a plethora of terms such as Ki, Chi, Weirding Way, whatever if the P word offends your sense of fantasy. Folk seem to like Mind Flayers, Aboleths, and other such Big-Bads running around their encounter tables, so seriously; why is it so darned hard to imagine a Player Character wielding such abilities? There's a pretty harsh downside to a character with Psi in that they are particularly vulnerable to other Psi wielding entities, so it's not because these characters are going to be runaway powerful or anything. If you ask me (and, obviously you didn't ...) the Demons and/or Artifacts section of Eldritch Wizardry are potentially more campaign wrecking than a Psionic character ever could be, yet both show up in old school games rather frequently.
So why do YOU dislike Psionics in D&D? Alternatively, how have you used Psionics in your 0D&D game? I'm genuinely interested.
JM.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 2, 2023 11:40:39 GMT -5
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames
Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil
and Miniature Figures
GYGAX & ARNESON
Picking Your Brain a Bit ...
As for my monthly post about 0D&D, I have an unpopular view of some optional rules presented in Eldritch Wizardry.
You guessed it; Psionics.
Most folks I know feel the Psionics rules are inappropriate to Fantasy Roleplaying to completely unplayable as written. I, however, find the rules formatted oddly in the book, but 0D&D players should be completely unfazed by that. The rules as written are not much more complex than numerous spell point systems introduced in various supplements, old and new.
So, with that out of the way, why so much disdain for Psi powers?
First of all, they are a rarity, by design - unless you're adapting Dark Sun, which is a challenge that would absolutely rock, IMHO. Maybe folks have been accustomed to Sci-Fi representations of Psionics - Traveller, I'm looking at you. Maybe I'm just too new school in that the idea of different kinds of powers/magic to exist in a given campaign sounds seriously cool. One could paint it with a plethora of terms such as Ki, Chi, Weirding Way, whatever if the P word offends your sense of fantasy. Folk seem to like Mind Flayers, Aboleths, and other such Big-Bads running around their encounter tables, so seriously; why is it so darned hard to imagine a Player Character wielding such abilities? There's a pretty harsh downside to a character with Psi in that they are particularly vulnerable to other Psi wielding entities, so it's not because these characters are going to be runaway powerful or anything. If you ask me (and, obviously you didn't ...) the Demons and/or Artifacts section of Eldritch Wizardry are potentially more campaign wrecking than a Psionic character ever could be, yet both show up in old school games rather frequently.
So why do YOU dislike Psionics in D&D? Alternatively, how have you used Psionics in your 0D&D game? I'm genuinely interested. JM.
I have never had a chance to run them, never had players that wanted to use it. I am not opposed to it, I love psi powers and I like a gonzo game like Arneson/Hargrave where there is some science mixed in with my fantasy. Big fan of Sterling E. Lanier and his Hiero Desteen books. Wish he had finished the trilogy and written more besides. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiero%27s_Journey The Unforsaken Hiero (novel)  |
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