Rob's Ramblings & Rumblings

[Admin Pete]

This is a place that you can ask Rob questions about times both old and new in his gaming life.  Oops

Let's try again!

First of all, let me be very, very clear - There is nothing wrong with an excellent elderberry wine! 

This a place where you can ask questions about Design and Design Philosophies, both Then and Now. Questions about how to keep your approach to Design Fresh and Effervescent, how to spot stagnant thought in your DESIGN and how to break free of it. Along with many many other things!

[robkuntz]

My gaming life? My life in gaming? Here we go again... I do hope it does not become a repeat of another forum where I, in 10 years, was asked a total of 1 or 2 questions about DESIGN, but only about anecdotes and gaming experiences. Not that I have any interest in Design by being a designer, mind you. I actually prefer to stitch and read romance novels while sipping on elderberry wine...


Old & New?   You meant Then and Now.  You see, as a designer, there is nothing old...  it is but an accumulation... Pedantic?  Not really, that is if we are dealing with design rather than "gaming experiences" exclusively.

[Admin Pete]

This is a place where Rob can pose questions to us the full membership and any of us can try our hand at answering. The purpose of this thread is to break up stale thinking and embark on learning to not just think outside the box, but to leave the box behind.

[robkuntz]

It should have been named "Rob's Ramblings & Rumblings..." as far as it goes 'til now... Wherein "You too can win a guided tour of your own basement!" Gronan will know where the last derives from.

[Vile Traveller]

Okay, let me try to throw in one from the start! Firstly, I don't really know anything about Kalibruhn (I may even be mis-spelling it there), except the fact that you first developed it very early on in the history of gaming. I may be coming at this from a whole bunch of misconceptions. However, my questions are thus:

What do you think are the benefits of developing a specific game world, rather than just allowing one to grow out of a campaign as you go along? Or do you?

[robkuntz]

May 5, 2016 8:35:47 GMT -5 Vile Traveller said:

Okay, let me try to throw in one from the start! Firstly, I don't really know anything about Kalibruhn (I may even be mis-spelling it there), except the fact that you first developed it very early on in the history of gaming. I may be coming at this from a whole bunch of misconceptions. However, my questions are thus:

What do you think are the benefits of developing a specific game world, rather than just allowing one to grow out of a campaign as you go along? Or do you?

That would perforce require a treatise (which I am 7,000 words into:  "Designing Kalibruhn", expected length 20,000 words; and as an intro to not only it but to world design top>down in general).

But I will cover some general points.

It's your conception entirely.  You know the reasons it was designed and why those are important.  Of course we adapt from real world data/experiences, but when we rigidly adopt rather than create through adaptation we lose sight as to why it is specific for the individual design.  Thus it is promoted as a more generalized view of the "game" rather than as a specific "game-world".  Two different philosophies and not to be confused.  One is dependent on general outside views to influence the main; the other develops independent views which support the specific premise; developing individual views leads to more choices (differences) and is good for the designer thereof as it is for maintaining a non-stagnant hobby and the commerce of ideas in which he or she interacts, and by forwarding such matter as choice models, if nothing else. Design is about change, not sameness.

Even though we cannot completely render a Fantasy world, ever, what we render and how we render it is the point to it all.  We can expand its precincts in real time play or when away from it at our drawing tables or desks, or we can say "I need more than this NOW" and slap something down from the market on it and look the other way.  And that all depends on what you want to get out of it.  Is it just a game?  Or is the design you??

Follow up on the matter if needed, Vile.  This is very general, but that's the way of design, because design is a very specific and individualistic attitude.

[hengest]

robkuntz , I'm not sure if this question is exactly "about design", but here goes.  I am not a fan of the "storytelling" role-playing games that have cropped up and done well in the past few decades, and I think many of the people on this board are not huge fans, either.  That said...do you think there's a blind spot common to many who are attracted to the OD&D DIY scene, a blind spot regarding some positive aspect of those storytelling games?  To me they seem like boring and unsatisfying ways to imitate bad television shows.  But what am I (or what are some others and I) missing?  

You said above that "Design is about change, not sameness."  Some will claim that acting out character arcs and so on is about change and growth.  I find it impossibly boring, but maybe that's due to my limitations.  Maybe character and so on comes out through play and doesn't need to be allowed for in the system?  Can it be encouraged by non-prescriptive game design?

In game design or campaign planning, how do you think one can best encourage full engagement and immersion without designing so that the game slides into a free-for-all of silly wish-fulfillment, rather than fantasy?

[robkuntz]

This is actually a great question. One should not confuse story fiction with in-game storytelling, nor in acting out the balance between the game and the world views with overly pretentious displays of histrionics. We are in a Fantasy world. To me that means to be immersed, and how else are we to do that without making it "seem" real in many senses? Immersion is when the PCs forget that they are playing a game and make investment in their PCs as "almost" real. That's accomplished through story-telling techniques, but not by repeating a story, the latter being consonant with sculpting a personal story of oneself in the greater act (or theatrics).

Effective use of fictional elements establishes mood and readers' immersion in fiction. So, if we are to immerse through these borrowed techniques they must be re-channeled through the new medium, which is what an RPG is as being an interactive one. Gary and I established mood as a matter of course in our adventures. That earns respect. Why? because the players respect the environment as "real" and not just a game environment. Why? Because effective summoning of mood is immersion in the world environment one is imagining. It's a picture that one manipulates as a director does an audience's perceptions of the silver screen.

Now. I do not go for straight story acting myself, because that presumes what it is all about (the known) and this does not immerse one in the environment but in themselves as a lone part of it. Rather, I will describe through the use of elements what people are being immersed in and let them bath in it. However, IMO, there's great worth in such acting and it can hone other skills and point to other facets that can be reapplied in growing senses, so I am not "against" it as much as I am for the overall immersion angle of Fantasy.

Hope this helps.

[captaincrumbcake]

I'm not sure I understand the nature of this.

But if Rob asks me What is the sound of one hand clapping, one more time, I'm gonna hit somebody up side the head with a wet mackerel!

[robkuntz]

I'm not sure I do either, PD, what is the purpose> How about, instead, where I can post articles, make announcements, or just plain sound off?? Too many things linked to questions.

[hengest]

Was the idea that robkuntz pose interesting questions for fellow gamers to think about and discuss?

[Admin Pete]

May 6, 2016 1:33:34 GMT -5 robkuntz said:

I'm not sure I do either, PD, what is the purpose> How about, instead, where I can post articles, make announcements, or just plain sound off?? Too many things linked to questions.

Sounds great that is better than what I was thinking - do you want me to change the title to your other suggestion "Rob's Ramblings & Rumblings"

May 6, 2016 6:16:53 GMT -5 hengest said:

Was the idea that robkuntz pose interesting questions for fellow gamers to think about and discuss?

Yes, that was the thought; however Rob can still do that if he wants, but I like his suggestion above and that would not exclude this.

[robkuntz]

Sounds Good... R's R & R... Rest and rehabilitation after my trip to and from Bastia today. But now i have a high quality laser printer (brother!) The fun begins!