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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 25, 2016 15:08:46 GMT -5
This thread is a bit self-serving, as I am in the pre-thinking stages of an idea of a possible thought about an adventure...  I know the Thief class makes its D&D appearance in GH; while its conceptual origins lie elsewhere. So does the Dragon King and Queen, as far as D&D appearance. Did Mr. G. base these two off of some other source? Was he inspired by something in a book, somewhere? Did you suggest them to him? What's the 20? |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 25, 2016 18:03:51 GMT -5
What Dragon King and Queen are you noting, citation date and publication. I have some info, just verifying first...
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 25, 2016 18:39:46 GMT -5
This thread is a bit self-serving, as I am in the pre-thinking stages of an idea of a possible thought about an adventure... I know the Thief class makes its D&D appearance in GH; while its conceptual origins lie elsewhere. So does the Dragon King and Queen, as far as D&D appearance. Did Mr. G. base these two off of some other source? Was he inspired by something in a book, somewhere? Did you suggest them to him? What's the 20? Well one would certainly derive from Tiamat; and the lawful King I have no clue. Gary and I were working together on the DRAGON Level, very deep in GH CASTLE, and as I was given it to finish and it remains unfinished to this day even though I did much work on it. The King & Queen would have made appearances there. It's a very large level. So, this is probably where the reference derives from for that was pre-Greyhawk Sup 1, but it also comes from myth in some ways. |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 25, 2016 18:47:17 GMT -5
I am not aware of any introduction of either (dragon king and/or queen) in anything previous to GH; that's why I'm wundrin/asking, if they had an earlier appearance (like SR or a Drag-mag 1-12.)
My foggy brain is dickering about with a notion, though, that Tiamat may have a past cultural deitic representation; but in some human form unrelated to dragons. Am I just being foggy, or was there some past thing regarding this?
Anyway, thanks.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 25, 2016 19:02:30 GMT -5
Sure, the Tiamat cycle is rife with serpents, as is all mid-East and far Eastern mythology. A lot of it mixes with different aspects of the gods in these, but one must pick if they are going to be one-dimensional for monsters, as D&D's original monster interface was. This starts to change a bit with Supplement IV where one can see and sense aspects arising; and this is what influenced my own gods as not consonant with any one form. Make the Queen or King what you will for IMO it's all changeable from them anyway, just as it was in myth. It was a rather cut and dried oppositional thing anyway, Law vs. Chaos.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 25, 2016 19:14:01 GMT -5
There is one story from Lin Carter's (ed) "Discoveries in Fantasy" through Ballantine that tells the tale of a golden dragon as beneficent and able to change shape into that of a man: "The Dragon of Chang Tao" by Ernest Bramah. I read the story many years ago and this is where the golden dragon derives from; though the Platinum which commands the golds may have been a contrivance by Gary who was no doubt familiar with the story as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoveries_in_Fantasyen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Lung%27s_Golden_Hours |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 26, 2016 7:14:35 GMT -5
robkuntz, thank you for the links, those are some that I have not read, although Eden Phillpotts seems to be a familiar name so I may have read something by him.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 26, 2016 7:56:58 GMT -5
Cool. Bramah's story is what influenced me to convince Gary to let me play my short-lived (one adventure only) Nedlog PC, an eastern man who was actually a golden dragon (though a fledgling one). I had to quit him to return to DMing GH and Kalibruhn adventures. Now that we are about it I will write him up at some future date and in between provide an OD&D template for playing golden dragons! Another one to add to the list...
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 26, 2016 11:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 26, 2016 12:33:45 GMT -5
Cool. What part of it? It's a general article.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 26, 2016 13:27:12 GMT -5
Cool. What part of it? It's a general article. Well...dunno. My brain's still bubbling about in the fog.  |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 26, 2016 15:00:22 GMT -5
OK. You've made your point...
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 26, 2016 15:34:37 GMT -5
Hey Cap, Have some crumb cake, you must be woozy from low blood sugar or something.  But a nice big piece of cake and a tall glass of ice cold milk to go with it should set you aright! |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 26, 2016 15:43:25 GMT -5
Okay, just to show y'all i'm serus 'bout dis...heah--  The premise has something to do with a strange, red tide that appears every 100 years, along with an unusually large number of sightings/encounters by merchant ships/sailors, with migrating sea serpents. |
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But a nice big piece of cake and a tall glass of ice cold milk to go with it should set you aright!