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Post by LouGoncey on Apr 2, 2016 9:39:38 GMT -5
Generally, how often do you roll for/call for surprise? I used to be "roll a d6 for both side, 1-2 means that side surprised" kind of DM. Then I thought about what was really happening at the table. A party with light was getting surprise over a group of monsters?
Unless the party was moving stealthy, with no light source, trying to sneak up on a monster -- they were almost never gain surprise. If they set up an ambush, they would have a shot...
And do not forget about the rule that, when surprised, there is a one out of four chance to drop something?
Torches, weapons, and flasks of oil were constantly dropped. When a torch drops, what is the effect? I have made it a one out of four chance for it to go out. If it stays lit, the footage of light from the torch drop to by ten feet (from 30 feet to 20 feet). If a flask of oil drops as well as a torch, then a saving throw is applied to see if someone is standing in a lit fire.
Short story time -- melee is a chaotic affair. Planning helps. But it all goes out the window once the battle starts.
What do you do to run this?
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 2, 2016 10:30:44 GMT -5
I haven't time to explore this much at the moment, but I would like to thank you for posting this topic, it is excellent. I fully agree that a lot of the time the party is not going to surprise anyone unless they have specifically planned and acted to do so. On the other hand the monsters are more likely to surprise the party, my group uses Continual Light in lieu of torches as soon as the magic-users gains the spell. and they cast it on small flat stones that they wear as light sources and don't have to worry about dropping them or having them go out for the most part. There are some things that can dispell that spell but it is not a common thing. They will carry one lit torch so that they can quickly light others if needed. Of course having a lot of light can have it own downsides.  In my own life I have never dropped anything when surprised, so I don't use that as it does not resonate for me. I look forward to the discussion on this.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 10:43:17 GMT -5
Just to play Devil's Advocate, I submit that you can surprise monsters with a torch/lightsource. A sudden light from behind me in a dark place would certainly surprise me. I don't assume monsters are omniscient, no matter how familiar their surroundings are. They could be preoccupied with a plethora of things ...
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Post by bestialwarlust on Apr 2, 2016 11:29:43 GMT -5
I tend to have players roll a d6 for no reason at all a lot time to keep them guessing. Now for the light source example if the group is approaching monsters most humanoid monsters in my games will have some sort of light source such as a cooking for or something similar. I'll roll for the monsters if they fail the roll then they won't notice the approaching light source. For non humanoid monsters or ones that will logically not have a light source I will still roll. Applying common sense I may give the monster a bonus to the d6 surprise roll to notice a party approaching with a light source. But really circumstances will determine if an approaching party of adventurers will alert a creature with a light source.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 2, 2016 11:32:30 GMT -5
Just to play Devil's Advocate, I submit that you can surprise monsters with a torch/lightsource. A sudden light from behind me in a dark place would certainly surprise me. I don't assume monsters are omniscient, no matter how familiar their surroundings are. They could be preoccupied with a plethora of things ... Yes or even woken out of a sound sleep as has happened IMC on occasion.  |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 2, 2016 11:36:33 GMT -5
I tend to have players roll a d6 for no reason at all a lot time to keep them guessing. Now for the light source example if the group is approaching monsters most humanoid monsters in my games will have some sort of light source such as a cooking for or something similar. I'll roll for the monsters if they fail the roll then they won't notice the approaching light source. For non humanoid monsters or ones that will logically not have a light source I will still roll. Applying common sense I may give the monster a bonus to the d6 surprise roll to notice a party approaching with a light source. But really circumstances will determine if an approaching party of adventurers will alert a creature with a light source. You do it a lot like I do; however, I do take into account both light and noise. Since the party is normally in armor and I don't run thieves IMC there is a fair amount of noise to be taken into account. Where they are at makes a difference to. Walking on stone or sand or soil. In a dungeon or out of doors. Wind blowing, how hard and what direction. Forested or desert, etc. |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 2, 2016 11:49:28 GMT -5
Use the d6 as a base and scale upwards or downwards taking into account factors as others have noted above, and then some. Tougher to surprise could range from no never to using a 1 d20 for "1", etc. and oppositely so for easier, always to 1d3, 1d4 for 1, etc. If you are not using "the funny dice" make up your own sliding scale.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Apr 2, 2016 11:52:50 GMT -5
I tend to have players roll a d6 for no reason at all a lot time to keep them guessing. Now for the light source example if the group is approaching monsters most humanoid monsters in my games will have some sort of light source such as a cooking for or something similar. I'll roll for the monsters if they fail the roll then they won't notice the approaching light source. For non humanoid monsters or ones that will logically not have a light source I will still roll. Applying common sense I may give the monster a bonus to the d6 surprise roll to notice a party approaching with a light source. But really circumstances will determine if an approaching party of adventurers will alert a creature with a light source. You do it a lot like I do; however, I do take into account both light and noise. Since the party is normally in armor and I don't run thieves IMC there is a fair amount of noise to be taken into account. Where they are at makes a difference to. Walking on stone or sand or soil. In a dungeon or out of doors. Wind blowing, how hard and what direction. Forested or desert, etc. I do that too, basically the common sense rule. But then most of use on this board run games wrong. We use our brains instead letting the rules tell us how to think.  |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 2, 2016 11:55:21 GMT -5
You do it a lot like I do; however, I do take into account both light and noise. Since the party is normally in armor and I don't run thieves IMC there is a fair amount of noise to be taken into account. Where they are at makes a difference to. Walking on stone or sand or soil. In a dungeon or out of doors. Wind blowing, how hard and what direction. Forested or desert, etc. I do that too, basically the common sense rule. But then most of use on this board run games wrong. We use our brains instead letting the rules tell us how to think. Rules are guides; the day they stop being guides they become laws. |
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In my own life I have never dropped anything when surprised, so I don't use that as it does not resonate for me. 
