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Post by True Black Raven on Feb 5, 2022 15:58:52 GMT -5
What does "Arnesonian" mean? What does "Murkhillian" mean? How do they differ? or Do they differ?
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Post by hengest on Feb 5, 2022 16:14:11 GMT -5
I'll take a crack at it. First of all, I think they could be roughly synonymous, but if you wanted a distinction, maybe...
Arnesonian: open-ended sandbox gaming where the system itself can change as necessary. Mechanical devices of the game can be added, dropped, or changed during play.
Murkhillian: generally the same as above, but with a particular emphasis on openness to (not a requirement) seat-of-pants activity from the ref.
What do you all think?
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 5, 2022 17:59:42 GMT -5
I'll take a crack at it. First of all, I think they could be roughly synonymous, but if you wanted a distinction, maybe... Arnesonian: open-ended sandbox gaming where the system itself can change as necessary. Mechanical devices of the game can be added, dropped, or changed during play.. Murkhillian: generally the same as above, but with a particular emphasis on openness to (not a requirement) seat-of-pants activity from the ref. What do you all think? I think you may have nailed it coming out the gate! So, Arnesonian is mechanically fluid and that is spot on. I agree that Murkhillian is very similar but I can't quite get the terms to come out like I want. I'm trying to come up with something to contrast "mechanically fluid" so "plotline is fluid" or "story is fluid". Neither is perfect but you get the idea. The plotline isn't set in stone. Maybe it will come to me... |
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Post by simrion on Feb 5, 2022 19:30:50 GMT -5
To quote/misquote a poster at another forum (and apologies to the forum owner if I offend) "We made up some $hit we thought was fun?"
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 5, 2022 20:28:00 GMT -5
I'll take a crack at it. First of all, I think they could be roughly synonymous, but if you wanted a distinction, maybe... Arnesonian: open-ended sandbox gaming where the system itself can change as necessary. Mechanical devices of the game can be added, dropped, or changed during play. Murkhillian: generally the same as above, but with a particular emphasis on openness to (not a requirement) seat-of-pants activity from the ref. What do you all think? By all accounts Arneson was very seat of the pants. So right now I see this as the same based on this definition. Well phrased btw! |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 5, 2022 20:31:32 GMT -5
I'll take a crack at it. First of all, I think they could be roughly synonymous, but if you wanted a distinction, maybe... Arnesonian: open-ended sandbox gaming where the system itself can change as necessary. Mechanical devices of the game can be added, dropped, or changed during play.. Murkhillian: generally the same as above, but with a particular emphasis on openness to (not a requirement) seat-of-pants activity from the ref. What do you all think? I think you may have nailed it coming out the gate! So, Arnesonian is mechanically fluid and that is spot on. I agree that Murkhillian is very similar but I can't quite get the terms to come out like I want. I'm trying to come up with something to contrast "mechanically fluid" so "plotline is fluid" or "story is fluid". Neither is perfect but you get the idea. The plotline isn't set in stone. Maybe it will come to me... I think where I differ with Arneson is that I never have a plot at all and I think that he did have them to some extent at least part of the time. Where I am very much a wait and see what plots develop as the players interact with the world kind of guy. That said, when the next Secrets of Blackmoor film comes out we should know more about this very subject. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 5, 2022 20:33:18 GMT -5
To quote/misquote a poster at another forum (and apologies to the forum owner if I offend) "We made up some $hit we thought was fun?" I think that is what any good ref does and then adjusts on the fly as needed. Oddly enough that is the one four letter word that I don't find all that offensive, it was commonly used growing up on a farm and I heard it from as early as I can remember. On the other hand I think the word feces looks and sounds disgusting. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 5, 2022 21:38:09 GMT -5
hengest I think you may have nailed it coming out the gate! So, Arnesonian is mechanically fluid and that is spot on. I agree that Murkhillian is very similar but I can't quite get the terms to come out like I want. I'm trying to come up with something to contrast "mechanically fluid" so "plotline is fluid" or "story is fluid". Neither is perfect but you get the idea. The plotline isn't set in stone. Maybe it will come to me... I think where I differ with Arneson is that I never have a plot at all and I think that he did have them to some extent at least part of the time. Where I am very much a wait and see what plots develop as the players interact with the world kind of guy. That said, when the next Secrets of Blackmoor film comes out we should know more about this very subject. That's what I was trying to say! |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 5, 2022 21:39:15 GMT -5
To quote/misquote a poster at another forum (and apologies to the forum owner if I offend) "We made up some $hit we thought was fun?" Y-E-S! |
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Post by simrion on Feb 6, 2022 6:49:12 GMT -5
To quote/misquote a poster at another forum (and apologies to the forum owner if I offend) "We made up some $hit we thought was fun?" I think that is what any good ref does and then adjusts on the fly as needed. Oddly enough that is the one four letter word that I don't find all that offensive, it was commonly used growing up on a farm and I heard it from as early as I can remember. On the other hand I think the word feces looks and sounds disgusting. Off topic I recall an anecdote from a visiting prof in an Anthropology class back in the late 1980's discussing his sabbatical in a remote SE Asian locale. Apparently the locals lived a communal existence and upon the arrival of he and his Wife the locals absconded with almost all the foods they had brought with the exception of peanut butter. Apparently having never experienced that food they though it looked like something entirely different and were offended that anyone would eat it! The Prof said he lived off of that and crackers for weeks. He also stated you took a friend as a look out when you wandered into the jungle to answer a call of nature. Otherwise nature (in the form of hungry Tigers) would take advantage of your preoccupation  |
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Post by True Black Raven on Feb 6, 2022 15:21:21 GMT -5
I think that is what any good ref does and then adjusts on the fly as needed. Oddly enough that is the one four letter word that I don't find all that offensive, it was commonly used growing up on a farm and I heard it from as early as I can remember. On the other hand I think the word feces looks and sounds disgusting. Off topic I recall an anecdote from a visiting prof in an Anthropology class back in the late 1980's discussing his sabbatical in a remote SE Asian locale. Apparently the locals lived a communal existence and upon the arrival of he and his Wife the locals absconded with almost all the foods they had brought with the exception of peanut butter. Apparently having never experienced that food they though it looked like something entirely different and were offended that anyone would eat it! The Prof said he lived off of that and crackers for weeks. He also stated you took a friend as a look out when you wandered into the jungle to answer a call of nature. Otherwise nature (in the form of hungry Tigers) would take advantage of your preoccupation  Wait! So they took all the food because they are communal and then would not share any of it so the guy had to live on peanut butter for weeks! Wow! |
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Post by simrion on Feb 6, 2022 16:37:07 GMT -5
Off topic I recall an anecdote from a visiting prof in an Anthropology class back in the late 1980's discussing his sabbatical in a remote SE Asian locale. Apparently the locals lived a communal existence and upon the arrival of he and his Wife the locals absconded with almost all the foods they had brought with the exception of peanut butter. Apparently having never experienced that food they though it looked like something entirely different and were offended that anyone would eat it! The Prof said he lived off of that and crackers for weeks. He also stated you took a friend as a look out when you wandered into the jungle to answer a call of nature. Otherwise nature (in the form of hungry Tigers) would take advantage of your preoccupation Wait! So they took all the food because they are communal and then would not share any of it so the guy had to live on peanut butter for weeks! Wow! I suspect what was taken wasn't in great quantity and I'm sure the natives were more than willing to share their bounty. Being Westerners I suspect the Anthro may not have been as open minded as to what was considered tasty in that community? I'm also certain some amount of exaggeration was utilized to make the story a little more entertaining... |
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Post by Vladimir, The Dark Prince on Feb 20, 2022 21:10:51 GMT -5
I think that is what any good ref does and then adjusts on the fly as needed. Oddly enough that is the one four letter word that I don't find all that offensive, it was commonly used growing up on a farm and I heard it from as early as I can remember. On the other hand I think the word feces looks and sounds disgusting. Off topic I recall an anecdote from a visiting prof in an Anthropology class back in the late 1980's discussing his sabbatical in a remote SE Asian locale. Apparently the locals lived a communal existence and upon the arrival of he and his Wife the locals absconded with almost all the foods they had brought with the exception of peanut butter. Apparently having never experienced that food they though it looked like something entirely different and were offended that anyone would eat it! The Prof said he lived off of that and crackers for weeks. He also stated you took a friend as a look out when you wandered into the jungle to answer a call of nature. Otherwise nature (in the form of hungry Tigers) would take advantage of your preoccupation The Tyger BY WILLIAM BLAKE Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry? In what distant deeps or skies. Burnt the fire of thine eyes? On what wings dare he aspire? What the hand, dare seize the fire? And what shoulder, & what art, Could twist the sinews of thy heart? And when thy heart began to beat, What dread hand? & what dread feet? What the hammer? what the chain, In what furnace was thy brain? What the anvil? what dread grasp, Dare its deadly terrors clasp! When the stars threw down their spears And water'd heaven with their tears: Did he smile his work to see? Did he who made the Lamb make thee? Tyger Tyger burning bright, In the forests of the night: What immortal hand or eye, Dare frame thy fearful symmetry? |
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Post by hengest on Feb 21, 2022 13:11:54 GMT -5
Blake never, ever gets old!
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