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Post by Admin Pete on Jan 5, 2022 23:28:01 GMT -5
The blog Simulacrum: Exploring OSR Design did a about the history of the OSR that started in Feb 2021 and concluded in mid December. Here is the five post and I will be reading it with you as I just found it but have not read it. I have no doubt, but that it will be vastly superior to the "history" published by the infamous Shannon Applecline. Nevertheless, I expect to disagree with parts of it.  and once I read it I will comment and I hope that you do too. A Historical Look at the OSR — Part V |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 8, 2022 12:59:30 GMT -5
That post was one of my favorites in the series so far. I would say as far as I'm concerned, the OSR is most definitely the offerings of the "Classic OSR" and "OSR-adjacent". The other stuff just doesn't feel right to me. On top of that, I would like to see other old school communities develop around their own earlier editions. For instance, Warhammer has Oldhammer for the early editions of that game. Just because a game is "old" by publication date does not mean it should be included in the OSR. RuneQuest can have Classic RuneQuest (they have an officially published reprint of the old rules), and other games can have their own old school movements, but OSR feels like it is D&D/D&D-related to me.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 8, 2022 14:13:21 GMT -5
That post was one of my favorites in the series so far. I would say as far as I'm concerned, the OSR is most definitely the offerings of the "Classic OSR" and "OSR-adjacent". The other stuff just doesn't feel right to me. On top of that, I would like to see other old school communities develop around their own earlier editions. For instance, Warhammer has Oldhammer for the early editions of that game. Just because a game is "old" by publication date does not mean it should be included in the OSR. RuneQuest can have Classic RuneQuest (they have an officially published reprint of the old rules), and other games can have their own old school movements, but OSR feels like it is D&D/D&D-related to me. I have not read this far yet, but to me the OSR is about OD&D, Holmes, B/X and perhaps AD&D. 2nd Ed AD&D, BECMI and Rules Cyclopedia are stretching it and anything else is not really OSR. To me the original Arduin books are kind of an alternate OSR for Arduin fans. I think there are developments in that direction that are going to support the original Arduin, but I really see that as separate from the OSR. I don't see this as an OSR board, I see this as an OSR friendly board. I see parts of the OSR as being OD&D-adjacent and I see other parts of the "OSR" as being anti-OD&D as some parts of the "OSR" are blatantly new school. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 9, 2022 10:12:46 GMT -5
That post was one of my favorites in the series so far. I would say as far as I'm concerned, the OSR is most definitely the offerings of the "Classic OSR" and "OSR-adjacent". The other stuff just doesn't feel right to me. On top of that, I would like to see other old school communities develop around their own earlier editions. For instance, Warhammer has Oldhammer for the early editions of that game. Just because a game is "old" by publication date does not mean it should be included in the OSR. RuneQuest can have Classic RuneQuest (they have an officially published reprint of the old rules), and other games can have their own old school movements, but OSR feels like it is D&D/D&D-related to me. I have not read this far yet, but to me the OSR is about OD&D, Holmes, B/X and perhaps AD&D. 2nd Ed AD&D, BECMI and Rules Cyclopedia are stretching it and anything else is not really OSR. To me the original Arduin books are kind of an alternate OSR for Arduin fans. I think there are developments in that direction that are going to support the original Arduin, but I really see that as separate from the OSR. I don't see this as an OSR board, I see this as an OSR friendly board. I see parts of the OSR as being OD&D-adjacent and I see other parts of the "OSR" as being anti-OD&D as some parts of the "OSR" are blatantly new school. I pretty much agree with you - OD&D through AD&D (maybe 2E) - is OSR as far as I'm concerned. My brain always assumes all of that when I think OSR. IMO, OSR should always include some form of early D&D/AD&D and other games like Arduin, T&T, Warhammer, RuneQuet, etc. should have their own individual movements if people are interested. The "anti-D&D" has no place in the OSR because the OSR is expressly D&D and specifically earlier rulesets. The "anti-D&D" and the new school are separate movements, related, but definitely separate. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 9, 2022 10:39:50 GMT -5
I have not read this far yet, but to me the OSR is about OD&D, Holmes, B/X and perhaps AD&D. 2nd Ed AD&D, BECMI and Rules Cyclopedia are stretching it and anything else is not really OSR. To me the original Arduin books are kind of an alternate OSR for Arduin fans. I think there are developments in that direction that are going to support the original Arduin, but I really see that as separate from the OSR. I don't see this as an OSR board, I see this as an OSR friendly board. I see parts of the OSR as being OD&D-adjacent and I see other parts of the "OSR" as being anti-OD&D as some parts of the "OSR" are blatantly new school. I pretty much agree with you - OD&D through AD&D (maybe 2E) - is OSR as far as I'm concerned. My brain always assumes all of that when I think OSR. IMO, OSR should always include some form of early D&D/AD&D and other games like Arduin, T&T, Warhammer, RuneQuet, etc. should have their own individual movements if people are interested. The "anti-D&D" has no place in the OSR because the OSR is expressly D&D and specifically earlier rulesets. The "anti-D&D" and the new school are separate movements, related, but definitely separate. ....Yes, I know I'll probably get some flack for my definition of OSR but that's just my opinion. It's not a hill I'm gonna die on or anything. 🤪 It's all about having fun and engaging discussion. Tell me why you agree or disagree. I want to hear. 👂 |
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Post by hengest on Jan 9, 2022 12:43:55 GMT -5
I also loved this post. I don't have the experience with all these items to say much, but for what it's worth, I agree that the OSR is based around earlier rulesets and (more important) playstyle of D&D. What I learned from the OSR materials (not this forum) nearly ten years ago is that I don't have to tell a story or be on a railroad plot to play D&D. What I learned from this forum is that I can make literally everything I need myself (or repurpose or alter anything anyone else has made). In the end, I like what The Perilous Dreamer said above: Now that is a pithy quote. In the end, you can define the OSR as you wish, but it's nice when words have meaning, and old-school should mean that at least some aspects of the play are like the way things were done in the old days. I like to think that means that this is a game that engages, but does not try to replace, your imagination. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 10, 2022 5:10:18 GMT -5
I also loved this post. I don't have the experience with all these items to say much, but for what it's worth, I agree that the OSR is based around earlier rulesets and (more important) playstyle of D&D. What I learned from the OSR materials (not this forum) nearly ten years ago is that I don't have to tell a story or be on a railroad plot to play D&D. What I learned from this forum is that I can make literally everything I need myself (or repurpose or alter anything anyone else has made). In the end, I like what The Perilous Dreamer said above: Now that is a pithy quote. In the end, you can define the OSR as you wish, but it's nice when words have meaning, and old-school should mean that at least some aspects of the play are like the way things were done in the old days. I like to think that means that this is a game that engages, but does not try to replace, your imagination. I think the last sentence from hengest wins the thread. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 10, 2022 13:19:34 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with you - OD&D through AD&D (maybe 2E) - is OSR as far as I'm concerned. My brain always assumes all of that when I think OSR. IMO, OSR should always include some form of early D&D/AD&D and other games like Arduin, T&T, Warhammer, RuneQuet, etc. should have their own individual movements if people are interested. The "anti-D&D" has no place in the OSR because the OSR is expressly D&D and specifically earlier rulesets. The "anti-D&D" and the new school are separate movements, related, but definitely separate. ....Yes, I know I'll probably get some flack for my definition of OSR but that's just my opinion. It's not a hill I'm gonna die on or anything. 🤪 It's all about having fun and engaging discussion. Tell me why you agree or disagree. I want to hear. 👂  Any definition of the OSR will get you flack from someone. No one agrees about anything for the most part. Which is why were were talking about a different name for what we are about in another thread, although I don't remember which one off the top of my head. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 10, 2022 13:20:45 GMT -5
I also loved this post. I don't have the experience with all these items to say much, but for what it's worth, I agree that the OSR is based around earlier rulesets and (more important) playstyle of D&D. What I learned from the OSR materials (not this forum) nearly ten years ago is that I don't have to tell a story or be on a railroad plot to play D&D. What I learned from this forum is that I can make literally everything I need myself (or repurpose or alter anything anyone else has made). In the end, I like what The Perilous Dreamer said above: Now that is a pithy quote. In the end, you can define the OSR as you wish, but it's nice when words have meaning, and old-school should mean that at least some aspects of the play are like the way things were done in the old days. I like to think that means that this is a game that engages, but does not try to replace, your imagination. I like pithy! It is a good thing to be.  |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 10, 2022 13:22:14 GMT -5
I like to think that means that this is a game that engages, but does not try to replace, your imagination. I think the last sentence from hengest wins the thread. Yep, that's old school! |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 11, 2022 17:36:02 GMT -5
....Yes, I know I'll probably get some flack for my definition of OSR but that's just my opinion. It's not a hill I'm gonna die on or anything. 🤪 It's all about having fun and engaging discussion. Tell me why you agree or disagree. I want to hear. 👂 Any definition of the OSR will get you flack from someone. No one agrees about anything for the most part. Which is why were were talking about a different name for what we are about in another thread, although I don't remember which one off the top of my head. I hear you on that! I'm definitely down for a new label. Gotta find that thread... |
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Post by hengest on Jan 11, 2022 17:45:49 GMT -5
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 11, 2022 17:48:59 GMT -5
I'm not sure BUT I *think* it's the poll thread titled something like "how invested are you in the OSR"... ...OR it was spun off from that? 🤣 |
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Post by El Borak on Jan 11, 2022 17:59:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure BUT I *think* it's the poll thread titled something like "how invested are you in the OSR"... ...OR it was spun off from that? 🤣 There is a little starting with this post ruinsofmurkhill.proboards.com/post/50990/thread in the Fanzine thread, not sure if it is in another thread or not. The real problem is every possible short acronym has been used for something, so you have to go long to get a more unique set of results. I've been looking through this again and propose this OMG Magazine - Original Murkhill Gaming Magazine
Open Ended Original Edition Fantasy Adventure Role Playing Games Slap that acronym on stuff and blog about it and it will 100% lead to one place.Absolutely agree! It's so outrageous than no one will forget what it is, though everyone will forget its actual name and acronym! But with cut-and-paste, who cares? |
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Post by El Borak on Jan 11, 2022 18:04:24 GMT -5
The really long form would be
Old School Open Ended Original Edition Sandbox Fantasy Adventure Role Playing Games or OSOEOESFARPG. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 11, 2022 18:09:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure BUT I *think* it's the poll thread titled something like "how invested are you in the OSR"... ...OR it was spun off from that? 🤣 There is a little starting with this post ruinsofmurkhill.proboards.com/post/50990/thread in the Fanzine thread, not sure if it is in another thread or not. The real problem is every possible short acronym has been used for something, so you have to go long to get a more unique set of results. Absolutely agree! It's so outrageous than no one will forget what it is, though everyone will forget its actual name and acronym! But with cut-and-paste, who cares? (Exalted for detective work!) Yes, almost all of the good acronyms have been taken. This may require some work... El Borak. |
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Post by El Borak on Jan 11, 2022 18:13:53 GMT -5
There is a little starting with this post ruinsofmurkhill.proboards.com/post/50990/thread in the Fanzine thread, not sure if it is in another thread or not. The real problem is every possible short acronym has been used for something, so you have to go long to get a more unique set of results. (Exalted for detective work!) Yes, almost all of the good acronyms have been taken. This may require some work... El Borak . I am not seeing any way to come up with something short, pithy, memorable and unique as an acronym. Harking back to something else I remember though, is if we define it and put enough stuff out in view, we just call it Murkhillian. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 11, 2022 18:20:25 GMT -5
(Exalted for detective work!) Yes, almost all of the good acronyms have been taken. This may require some work... El Borak . I am not seeing any way to come up with something short, pithy, memorable and unique as an acronym. Harking back to something else I remember though, is if we define it and put enough stuff out in view, we just call it Murkhillian. I like that! |
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Post by hengest on Jan 11, 2022 19:11:43 GMT -5
I am not seeing any way to come up with something short, pithy, memorable and unique as an acronym. Harking back to something else I remember though, is if we define it and put enough stuff out in view, we just call it Murkhillian. I like that! Completely on board with this. Here's hoping this year brings us closer to putting out some material. |
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Post by oldskolgmr on Feb 14, 2022 16:42:18 GMT -5
I loved the blog posts Admin Pete! You will get a personal Exalt as soon as I can do it (one per day, I'm a 1st Level Exalter). |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 20, 2022 18:03:53 GMT -5
I have not read this far yet, but to me the OSR is about OD&D, Holmes, B/X and perhaps AD&D. 2nd Ed AD&D, BECMI and Rules Cyclopedia are stretching it and anything else is not really OSR. To me the original Arduin books are kind of an alternate OSR for Arduin fans. I think there are developments in that direction that are going to support the original Arduin, but I really see that as separate from the OSR. I don't see this as an OSR board, I see this as an OSR friendly board. I see parts of the OSR as being OD&D-adjacent and I see other parts of the "OSR" as being anti-OD&D as some parts of the "OSR" are blatantly new school. I pretty much agree with you - OD&D through AD&D (maybe 2E) - is OSR as far as I'm concerned. My brain always assumes all of that when I think OSR. IMO, OSR should always include some form of early D&D/AD&D and other games like Arduin, T&T, Warhammer, RuneQuet, etc. should have their own individual movements if people are interested. The "anti-D&D" has no place in the OSR because the OSR is expressly D&D and specifically earlier rulesets. The "anti-D&D" and the new school are separate movements, related, but definitely separate. I still have not read this far in the blog post series, I finished up the first two blog posts today and made some comments. IMO OD&D sans supplements is the basis of the OSR and as soon as you introduce the supplements you are starting to stretch it a bit. But I feel the same way about Old School in general. Original D& D is Old School D&D, but when it comes to the official supplements ( and The Strategic Review and The Dragon) some things in them are old school and some things are not old school. For instance, I think Paladins and Rangers are old school, I do not accept Thieves as being old school which is why I usually do not allow them, that is these three are not the same. I generally look at Holmes D&D as old school and the AD&D Monster Manual, but am somewhat skeptical of B/X D&D viewing it as only partially old school and do not view BECMI or later as being very old school. Likewise I do not view the AD&D PHB and DMG as fully old school, but only partially so. I truthfully do not view 2nd Ed AD&D as old school. So you can see how I draw lines with the OSR materials. I view Delving Deeper and Iron Falcon as old school, but I do not view Swords & Wizardry as more than just partially old school. These of course are my own personal views and for everyone else YMMV. On the other hand I view The Arduin Grimoire Vol I as mostly old school and accept it as just as much a part of OD&D as any of the official supplements. IMO Arduin became its own thing with the version after the Grimiores. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 20, 2022 20:42:33 GMT -5
I loved the blog posts Admin Pete! You will get a personal Exalt as soon as I can do it (one per day, I'm a 1st Level Exalter). You should only have to wait a minute or two and then you can exalt someone else. |
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Post by oldskolgmr on Feb 21, 2022 0:10:43 GMT -5
I loved the blog posts Admin Pete ! You will get a personal Exalt as soon as I can do it (one per day, I'm a 1st Level Exalter). You should only have to wait a minute or two and then you can exalt someone else. Odd, I will check that out soon Admin Pete and let you know if it doesn't work for me (P.S. I Exalted your private account). <EDIT: You are correct. Thank you!> |
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and once I read it I will comment and I hope that you do too.
Any definition of the OSR will get you flack from someone. No one agrees about anything for the most part. Which is why were were talking about a different name for what we are about in another thread, although I don't remember which one off the top of my head.
Slap that acronym on stuff and blog about it and it will 100% lead to one place.
