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Post by captaincrumbcake on Feb 16, 2016 19:55:24 GMT -5
In M&M, there are two spells with which the magic-user (or elf of high enough level) may essentially transport himself across distances instantaneously: Dimension Door (L4) and Teleport (L5). The latter needs no tweaking as it functions IMO appropriately for its power level; the DD, however, is far to weak IMO to be a L4 spell--thus the recommendation of moving it to become a 1st, 2nd and/or 3rd level spell. At level 1 the maximum distance of such a spell will be a mere 12"--but it will transport the spell caster instantaneously, through solid material if such is the case, delivering the caster to the precise limit of its range--12". (If, at 12" in any given direction N,S,E,W or up/down or whatever angle) the caster attempts to appear within some other solid matter, the caster instantly dies!) At 2nd level, the range becomes 24" and at 3rd, 36"; both of the latter subject to the same description.
Having removed DD from the level 4 spell list, affords us space to put in its place the Limited Teleportation. This spell allows the caster to instantaneously teleport him/herself any distance within line-of-sight; thus, in the outdoors, miles could be instantly traveled in the blink of an eye. That said, such distances do not allow (without magical aid) the caster to know precisely if the destination point is actually already occupied by another living being, creature, or even solid matter (such as a rock, tree, or hillside). The closer the desired point, the more visible it will be, and such risk drops--to be determined by the game referee.
Something for your consideration.
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Post by robkuntz on Feb 17, 2016 3:56:13 GMT -5
The Limited Teleport's negative results for line of sight are already configured into the Teleport's having to know and/or studied the area. It's the same cause-effect state, IMO, through essentially different means: Do I know? compared to Do i see? which is essentially the same knowledge but just removed a step.
As for DD it is a very powerful spell, IMO, as it allows instant escape! It allows access to areas that are otherwise guarded or sequestered, etc Its tactical uses are endless.
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 17, 2016 8:46:50 GMT -5
captaincrumbcake I am not understanding why you think Dimension Door is weak. Besides the things Rob mentioned, a huge thing (to me now and bitd) is the "no chance of misjudging". This was a spell that we used a lot bitd.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Feb 17, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -5
captaincrumbcake I am not understanding why you think Dimension Door is weak. Besides the things Rob mentioned, a huge thing (to me now and bitd) is the "no chance of misjudging". This was a spell that we used a lot bitd. Granted, Rob's point is valid in regards to a Teleport spell being able to do both: line-of-sight, and, as described in the spell. The purpose of the "Limited Teleportation" is to create a L4 spell more appropriate to the spell-power; it does not grant the caster the ability to go anywhere the character "knows"...just, line of sight. Which is far greater in distance than the DD. As to the DD being without risk of "misjudging" this is not wholly correct. Only if the caster knows that at the end of the range (36") or to the limit he wishes to go (1" - 35") in whatever direction, that such a space for him to arrive safely exists, will he not be at risk. If, within a dungeon the caster has not totally explored, should he state "DD...35 inches west" and he's never been there, he could very well be DD-ing into a solid area of earth, stone, or into a underground pool, or into a volcanic tube! The DD does not grant the caster knowledge of the area of destination; that needs to be known before the caster decides to go wizzing about. Naturally, I'm just offering something based on my own interpretations of the books. But since we are intended to "change" and "add" new things as we desire, the intention is totally validated. |
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Post by robkuntz on Feb 17, 2016 10:04:11 GMT -5
Yes, misjudging is as you state, which makes the DD spell a planned spell in some tactical cases, but even so, as long as you have traversed the area, there you go (that is, of course if you correctly mapped it and called exact distances by comparison). But let's say you are standing outside a door to a large entry hall of a manse and dimension door 2' on the other side of the door at center point. This is very powerful. Magically locked doors are easily bypassed in this manner, as are other blockages. Plus the spell is real handy on the outdoor in many situations.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Feb 17, 2016 10:58:19 GMT -5
Granted, the DD can be a very powerful tool. Which is why I came up with the lesser versions for lower levels (12" @ L1, 24" @ L3, 36" @ L5); reserving the Line-of-sight Limited Teleportation for L7 (as a L4 spell), and the full-blown Teleport at L9(as a L5 spell).
My purpose is, essentially, to provide the same kind of spell at various levels (from low to high) with level-appropriate power.
It is what it is; offered, here, for those interested. Those that aren't, well, they probably just won't be using the suggestion.
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 17, 2016 11:24:05 GMT -5
While I fully agree that you can change the spell anyway you want to, as a ref I have always chosen to adjudicate DD as not having a "line of sight" requirement and I have always run the DD as a door appears and you step through and it cannot take you into a solid space. I have always viewed the DD as being the more powerful of the two spells in all but distance of transport.
If you want to add a third spell, I have no problem with that. If I were going to add any distance within line of sight to DD as a new spell I would likely make that a 5th level spell.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Feb 17, 2016 11:29:00 GMT -5
I'm kind of confused, PD, because I'm interpreting your response as if I'm suggesting the DD have a "line-of-sight" component; I'm not. I'm simply suggesting the DD be a limited 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spell (with the ranges stated), and adding the "line-of-sight"/Limited Teleportation as a 4th level spell.
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Post by robkuntz on Feb 17, 2016 11:31:22 GMT -5
Granted, the DD can be a very powerful tool. Which is why I came up with the lesser versions for lower levels (12" @ L1, 24" @ L3, 36" @ L5); reserving the Line-of-sight Limited Teleportation for L7 (as a L4 spell), and the full-blown Teleport at L9(as a L5 spell). My purpose is, essentially, to provide the same kind of spell at various levels (from low to high) with level-appropriate power. It is what it is; offered, here, for those interested. Those that aren't, well, they probably just won't be using the suggestion. All spells are tools. Have fun fiddling with the results, but I doubt that DD, IMO, needs to be lowered in its estimation as a tool to achieve that. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 17, 2016 11:35:51 GMT -5
I'm kind of confused, PD, because I'm interpreting your response as if I'm suggesting the DD have a "line-of-sight" component; I'm not. I'm simply suggesting the DD be a limited 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spell (with the ranges stated), and adding the "line-of-sight"/Limited Teleportation as a 4th level spell. I was confused then, I was reading it that your interpretation of the existing spell is that it only worked on "line-of-sight" with the max of 36" and that you wanted to add the limited 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spell (with the ranges stated), and adding the "line-of-sight"/Limited Teleportation as a 4th level spell with no distance limitation. My bad, I was misreading your post. |
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Post by robkuntz on Feb 17, 2016 11:37:16 GMT -5
I'm kind of confused, PD, because I'm interpreting your response as if I'm suggesting the DD have a "line-of-sight" component; I'm not. I'm simply suggesting the DD be a limited 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spell (with the ranges stated), and adding the "line-of-sight"/Limited Teleportation as a 4th level spell. I get your point. But this depends on campaign power levels; in mine a first level DD would be way too powerful in the hands of imaginative players, though I could see a work around with some specifics for toning it down a bit to bring it to 2nd level. As a comparison, Phantasmal Force, IM estimation, is way too powerful for a 2nd level spell and I have moved it to a 3rd in cases where I use straight D&D rules (not too often these days). |
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