Are you invested in the OSR?

[Silver Leaf]

I would have said borrowed from another forum for this poll, but I have revised it and taken it much farther and you can vote for up to two options.

[Silver Leaf]

I have a rather poor opinion of the OSR, a few years back if someone branded their product as OSR it meant that it would be at least partially compatible with old school gaming, but that is no longer the case. Now (not naming names to protect the guilty) many products are not old school by any definition and are not compatible with old school gaming. Too many have slapped the label on their product in an attempt to deceive people into buying their product.

[corbertsronley]

There are "OSR" products that are nothing but political screeds. I cannot imagine trying to play some of them. All I need is OD&D, I don't need any new rulesets. If you want to publish something, publish things that are systemless that can easily be used in any version of D&D, from the oldest of the old school to the newest of the new school.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

I still think the OSR has a lot of good value to it. Not to sound like a prick but I do mean the ACTUAL OSR not those that have tried to usurp the label and use as their own.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jul 23, 2021 16:20:57 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

I still think the OSR has a lot of good value to it. Not to sound like a prick but I do mean the ACTUAL OSR not those that have tried to usurp the label and use as their own.

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer, the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:20:57 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

I still think the OSR has a lot of good value to it. Not to sound like a prick but I do mean the ACTUAL OSR not those that have tried to usurp the label and use as their own.

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

Agreed.  Reluctance to push back has allowed the term to be usurped.  Gaming is just a microcosm of society in many ways and that's how we've gotten to the point we are currently at in society and politics.  All you have to do is pay attention to see what's going on.  I'm not going to dirty up these fine forums here with details. 

[hengest]

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:20:57 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

I still think the OSR has a lot of good value to it. Not to sound like a prick but I do mean the ACTUAL OSR not those that have tried to usurp the label and use as their own.

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.    

I like "1974-compatible" as a term. I kind of think it's unlikely to be usurped since compatibility with "the 1970s" may not be seen as specifically desirable in some quarters, but what do I know.  But an intro to the fanzine, as well as a sticky around here (you know I am inappropriately mad for the idea of a new sticky), would be a good place to define it.

The very notion of things being compatible or not compatible doesn't really sit well with me.  So much of the focus is on stats, probably the least interesting part of the entire endeavor to me.  If someone has a great adventure hook or dungeon or ruin or world or whatever, why not just use it and restat it as you need?  I assume the answer is just "because not many people want to do things that way."  

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jul 24, 2021 14:06:56 GMT -5 hengest said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.    

I like "1974-compatible" as a term. I kind of think it's unlikely to be usurped since compatibility with "the 1970s" may not be seen as specifically desirable in some quarters, but what do I know.  But an intro to the fanzine, as well as a sticky around here (you know I am inappropriately mad for the idea of a new sticky), would be a good place to define it.

The very notion of things being compatible or not compatible doesn't really sit well with me.  So much of the focus is on stats, probably the least interesting part of the entire endeavor to me.  If someone has a great adventure hook or dungeon or ruin or world or whatever, why not just use it and restat it as you need?  I assume the answer is just "because not many people want to do things that way."  

A lot of things you could publish or give away, do not need to have stats provided, any stats could and should be provided by the referee. I run it and I give it 40 HPs, you run it and you assign 20 HPs. If a stat block is given with 30 HPs or 3d8+6, then most people are going to take that as written in stone, but we know that is just an option not a hard and fast this is the way it is.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Jul 24, 2021 14:06:56 GMT -5 hengest said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.    

I like "1974-compatible" as a term. I kind of think it's unlikely to be usurped since compatibility with "the 1970s" may not be seen as specifically desirable in some quarters, but what do I know.  But an intro to the fanzine, as well as a sticky around here (you know I am inappropriately mad for the idea of a new sticky), would be a good place to define it.

The very notion of things being compatible or not compatible doesn't really sit well with me.  So much of the focus is on stats, probably the least interesting part of the entire endeavor to me.  If someone has a great adventure hook or dungeon or ruin or world or whatever, why not just use it and restat it as you need?  I assume the answer is just "because not many people want to do things that way."  

I dig "1974-compatible" as a label.  I think you are correct on it most likely not getting usurped for the very reason you stated.  

Unfortunately, I think people have gotten lazy.  They want the work done for them.  I agree with you about stats.  I bet most everyone here could use a product with just general details like "the Orcs attacking the party have swords and a few have bows. They will fight until they clearly start losing advantage.  None of them have any special weapons or magic items but the leader has a map to...".  I'm sure not everybody would interpret that the same way but it clearly sets some basic parameters and details about the ambushing Orcs.  There's some wiggle room but this isn't an epic fight to the death with a huge boss monsters or anything like that.  They might have 20 hit points or maybe 30.  They might be using short swords or standard swords.  You get the idea.  Each one of us would run that differently (as far as stats go) but it would still be a party of adventurers against some Orcs.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Jul 24, 2021 14:06:56 GMT -5 hengest said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.    

I like "1974-compatible" as a term. I kind of think it's unlikely to be usurped since compatibility with "the 1970s" may not be seen as specifically desirable in some quarters, but what do I know.  But an intro to the fanzine, as well as a sticky around here (you know I am inappropriately mad for the idea of a new sticky), would be a good place to define it.

The very notion of things being compatible or not compatible doesn't really sit well with me.  So much of the focus is on stats, probably the least interesting part of the entire endeavor to me.  If someone has a great adventure hook or dungeon or ruin or world or whatever, why not just use it and restat it as you need?  I assume the answer is just "because not many people want to do things that way."  

Exactly what I'm getting at in my post above. 

[moose]

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

I am on board with this.

[El Borak]

So far not showing much love for the OSR, can't say I am surprised. This forum and what it stands for gaming wise is at odds with the "old school" main stream, which by extension would include most of the OSR.

[Morose]

I think that the term OSR has lost all useful meaning, the non-old school part is becoming the dominant voice. It hurts the old school writers, because many of us won't buy anything we can't look at first to verify it street cred.

[Gawaine]

I don't really care about the OSR, I just want to learn how to play old school games.

[DFL_GM]

I think someone needs to make a list of the "OSR" stuff that is truly old school and start calling it by a different name so that people have a way of finding stuff that is old school compatible.

[Barfog]

So much garbage calls itself OSR these days. As a consequence, OSR has become a meaningless term.

[Molcho]

I think the OSR has become meaningless since so much alleged "OSR" material is not old school compatible.

[Armor]

The OSR has become irrelevant these days IMO. It has been so diluted, it really doesn't mean anything anymore.

[Penny Wise]

Eye opening to say the least.

[Kujik]

The OSR no longer means old school compatible, so for me it is meaningless.

[The Man From Coventry]

I don't even know what the OSR is.

[The Master]

I don't think the OSR means much anymore, since it no longer stands for compatibility.

[Dartanian]

As others have observed, OSR no longer means old school D&D compatible. So it is now irrelevant as an identifier.

[Warrior Twin One]

I have a poor opinion of the OSR, mainly because half of it is not old school compatible or even remotely old school.

[Warrior Twin Two]

Sept 14, 2022 17:51:07 GMT -5 Warrior Twin One said:

I have a poor opinion of the OSR, mainly because half of it is not old school compatible or even remotely old school.

Agreed

[borewin]

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:20:57 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

I still think the OSR has a lot of good value to it. Not to sound like a prick but I do mean the ACTUAL OSR not those that have tried to usurp the label and use as their own.

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

I agree with this and personally I don't really care about the OSR. A label is only useful as long as it means something and the OSR as a label has ceased to mean anything useful. It does not mean old school compatible and that has rendered it useless. I agree that labeling products "1974 compatible" would be a good thing. But then you have to call out the stuff that is not "1974 compatible". I doubt that very many people have the guts to do that.

[The Legend]

Oct 7, 2022 14:44:54 GMT -5 borewin said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

I agree with this and personally I don't really care about the OSR. A label is only useful as long as it means something and the OSR as a label has ceased to mean anything useful. It does not mean old school compatible and that has rendered it useless. I agree that labeling products "1974 compatible" would be a good thing. But then you have to call out the stuff that is not "1974 compatible". I doubt that very many people have the guts to do that.

This

[colinouchou]

Oct 7, 2022 14:44:54 GMT -5 borewin said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

I agree with this and personally I don't really care about the OSR. A label is only useful as long as it means something and the OSR as a label has ceased to mean anything useful. It does not mean old school compatible and that has rendered it useless. I agree that labeling products "1974 compatible" would be a good thing. But then you have to call out the stuff that is not "1974 compatible". I doubt that very many people have the guts to do that.

Agreed

[nobody]

Sept 14, 2022 18:24:58 GMT -5 Warrior Twin Two said:

Sept 14, 2022 17:51:07 GMT -5 Warrior Twin One said:

I have a poor opinion of the OSR, mainly because half of it is not old school compatible or even remotely old school.

Agreed

Ditto

[Robert the Black]

Oct 7, 2022 14:44:54 GMT -5 borewin said:

Jul 23, 2021 16:41:39 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I think that is what it boils down to is that about half of the "so-called" OSR is busy putting out stuff that is not old school, at all and it is swamping the stuff that the old school half of the OSR is putting out. It is diluting things so that, as was said, the OSR label does not mean it will be something that I will like or want to use.

The term "old school" itself has been diluted by a huge amount of misuse including things that are not remotely old school.

So people have used the term pre-school or primordial school meaning predating what is falsely labeled old school now in a lot of the corners of the Internet. So while I agree with The Semi-Retired Gamer , the fact that you have to say ACTUAL OSR means the term is becoming obsolete as a term to identify something that many of us would like to own and use.

We are going to need a new term, something like "1974 compatible" and then assign a definition to it so that it is tougher to usurp. Of course that would mean being ruthless in calling out the usurpers and most will not have the stomach to do that, which is how we got where we are.

I agree with this and personally I don't really care about the OSR. A label is only useful as long as it means something and the OSR as a label has ceased to mean anything useful. It does not mean old school compatible and that has rendered it useless. I agree that labeling products "1974 compatible" would be a good thing. But then you have to call out the stuff that is not "1974 compatible". I doubt that very many people have the guts to do that.

I also agree.