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Post by mao on Jun 10, 2021 6:56:10 GMT -5
The main problem with collectible card games is power creep. It happens to all games, some worse than others. As the game releases more card sets , the power level of the cards go up to entice you to keep buying cards. There are ways of avoiding this but you can't play competitively with out spending a ton of cash.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 11, 2021 22:53:53 GMT -5
The main problem with collectible card games is power creep. It happens to all games, some worse than others. As the game releases more card sets , the power level of the cards go up to entice you to keep buying cards. There are ways of avoiding this but you can't play competitively with out spending a ton of cash. That I think nails the one of the biggest differences between collectible cards games and open-ended sand boxed role playing games. In the latter, you buy the game or these days even get a game for free (not counting printing a copy out to use) and you never have to buy anything again. Another difference, which to me is just as big if yes, and or no, and. As long as the "and" follows, nothing ends. |
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Post by hengest on Jun 12, 2021 13:20:27 GMT -5
The main problem with collectible card games is power creep. It happens to all games, some worse than others. As the game releases more card sets , the power level of the cards go up to entice you to keep buying cards. There are ways of avoiding this but you can't play competitively with out spending a ton of cash. That I think nails the one of the biggest differences between collectible cards games and open-ended sand boxed role playing games. In the latter, you buy the game or these days even get a game for free (not counting printing a copy out to use) and you never have to buy anything again. Another difference, which to me is just as big if yes, and or no, and. As long as the "and" follows, nothing ends. I was never able to get into collectible card games. I assume part of the draw is the art on each card. But I could never quite get used to the fact that the game could be replicated by just having card types A, B, C, D and then sub-types this and that and this features cases cards to affect other cards in this or that way... |
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Post by mao on Jun 14, 2021 6:56:27 GMT -5
One of the really nice things about L5R is that it cried out to be role played and the thing w the clan affiliation lead to this.
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Post by hengest on Jan 29, 2022 18:48:30 GMT -5
The main problem with collectible card games is power creep. It happens to all games, some worse than others. As the game releases more card sets , the power level of the cards go up to entice you to keep buying cards. There are ways of avoiding this but you can't play competitively with out spending a ton of cash. On seeing this again, I remembered that years before I was into Murkhillian gaming, I noticed that I liked games but not really competition. And so now I realize that, simplistic though it seems, for me the big difference is that CCGs are competitive while Murkhillian gaming is not. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 29, 2022 22:51:34 GMT -5
The main problem with collectible card games is power creep. It happens to all games, some worse than others. As the game releases more card sets , the power level of the cards go up to entice you to keep buying cards. There are ways of avoiding this but you can't play competitively with out spending a ton of cash. On seeing this again, I remembered that years before I was into Murkhillian gaming, I noticed that I liked games but not really competition. And so now I realize that, simplistic though it seems, for me the big difference is that CCGs are competitive while Murkhillian gaming is not. When I play completive games I am super into the competition. I play killer Scrabble for instance. One reason why I like Murkhillian gaming, all the stress (and strife) of those other games is not present. |
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Post by hengest on Jan 29, 2022 23:02:55 GMT -5
When I play completive games I am super into the competition. I play killer Scrabble for instance. One reason why I like Murkhillian gaming, all the stress (and strife) of those other games is not present. When I play competitive games, I am practically asleep because I don't care about competing, so there's a fuel that is missing from my experience. That's okay for me, but I feel bad for the other people involved, because I don't put up much of a fight, and they may want that as part of the game. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 29, 2022 23:14:33 GMT -5
When I play competitive games, I am practically asleep because I don't care about competing, so there's a fuel that is missing from my experience. That's okay for me, but I feel bad for the other people involved, because I don't put up much of a fight, and they may want that as part of the game. Yeah, card players usually play to win and do not like to lose at all. The two most serious card games I have played are poker and Bridge, and I am not very good at either, as I've not played either that much or in a long time either. |
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Post by hengest on Jan 29, 2022 23:20:32 GMT -5
When I play competitive games, I am practically asleep because I don't care about competing, so there's a fuel that is missing from my experience. That's okay for me, but I feel bad for the other people involved, because I don't put up much of a fight, and they may want that as part of the game. Yeah, card players usually play to win and do not like to lose at all. The two most serious card games I have played are poker and Bridge, and I am not very good at either, as I've not played either that much or in a long time either. I like the idea of card games because I like the cards themselves and the various interactions (discarding, laying things down, the various core mechanics of different families of card game). Again, I do not feel any particular desire to win nor am I very good at winning. I do like the trick-taking games like Bridge, although I have never actually played Bridge itself. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jan 29, 2022 23:25:00 GMT -5
Yeah, card players usually play to win and do not like to lose at all. The two most serious card games I have played are poker and Bridge, and I am not very good at either, as I've not played either that much or in a long time either. I like the idea of card games because I like the cards themselves and the various interactions (discarding, laying things down, the various core mechanics of different families of card game). Again, I do not feel any particular desire to win nor am I very good at winning. I do like the trick-taking games like Bridge, although I have never actually played Bridge itself. I am really fond of Euchre, although I have not played in about 15 years. |
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Post by simrion on Jan 30, 2022 7:09:35 GMT -5
Euchre is a fun game! Also something of an Eastern and Mid-American pasttime? or so I've heard. Back to CCGs what really blows my mind and to Mao's point is that power creep. Especially to where CCG tournaments will ban certain cards due to their overwhelming power??? Seems counter intuitive to the whole concept of CCGs in my mind.
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Post by True Black Raven on Feb 5, 2022 22:58:17 GMT -5
Euchre is a fun game! Also something of an Eastern and Mid-American pasttime? or so I've heard. Back to CCGs what really blows my mind and to Mao's point is that power creep. Especially to where CCG tournaments will ban certain cards due to their overwhelming power??? Seems counter intuitive to the whole concept of CCGs in my mind. Euchre is a great game, have not played it for a while. CCGs are just unbelievable to me, I cannot wrap my head around why people enjoy them. Just play Uno and save a bundle of money.  |
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Post by simrion on Feb 6, 2022 6:43:31 GMT -5
Euchre is a fun game! Also something of an Eastern and Mid-American pasttime? or so I've heard. Back to CCGs what really blows my mind and to Mao's point is that power creep. Especially to where CCG tournaments will ban certain cards due to their overwhelming power??? Seems counter intuitive to the whole concept of CCGs in my mind. Euchre is a great game, have not played it for a while. CCGs are just unbelievable to me, I cannot wrap my head around why people enjoy them. Just play Uno and save a bundle of money.  That ain't no lie regarding saving money. Yu-Gi-Oh & Magic are BIG a the FLGS here in Rochester, NY. Fully a quarter of the store is taken up by display cases for the rares, ect. I've seen youngsters flush with cash plunk down a few Benjamins for a single card while yacking on the latest smart phone from the "fruit company." I do recall years ago the previous store owner had just returned from a Magic tournament in Japan of all places. When asked how he fared he replied his winnings paid for the trip!!! When we played Magic BITD it ended up in arguments and a friend was kicked out of the house LOL |
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Post by True Black Raven on Feb 6, 2022 9:24:58 GMT -5
Euchre is a great game, have not played it for a while. CCGs are just unbelievable to me, I cannot wrap my head around why people enjoy them. Just play Uno and save a bundle of money. That ain't no lie regarding saving money. Yu-Gi-Oh & Magic are BIG a the FLGS here in Rochester, NY. Fully a quarter of the store is taken up by display cases for the rares, ect. I've seen youngsters flush with cash plunk down a few Benjamins for a single card while yacking on the latest smart phone from the "fruit company." I do recall years ago the previous store owner had just returned from a Magic tournament in Japan of all places. When asked how he fared he replied his winnings paid for the trip!!! When we played Magic BITD it ended up in arguments and a friend was kicked out of the house LOL Some people treat as pocket change amounts that would allow many of us to up our standard of living. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 10, 2022 18:53:02 GMT -5
I used to really dig Magic: The Gathering BUT that was back in the early days of the game. Some of the cards were broken but power creep was still down the road, and it seemed much easier to find a casual game. I believe starter decks were only $7.95 at the time but that might have been after the cost increase of a dollar. I picked up some of the newer cards about 6 months ago and it sure seems like the casual player is not the main focus. The special abilities seem crazy and the convoluted. Definitely not my cup of tea.
I've never played Euchre but I played plenty of Spades in the Army. Phase 10 and Uno has seen a lot of play over the years, of course. I believe my favorite card game is Pitch. It's been years since I've played it but I really enjoy it. I played it - wow! - in my 20's and people these days don't seem to play it much around here.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 11, 2022 17:55:09 GMT -5
I used to really dig Magic: The Gathering BUT that was back in the early days of the game. Some of the cards were broken but power creep was still down the road, and it seemed much easier to find a casual game. I believe starter decks were only $7.95 at the time but that might have been after the cost increase of a dollar. I picked up some of the newer cards about 6 months ago and it sure seems like the casual player is not the main focus. The special abilities seem crazy and the convoluted. Definitely not my cup of tea. I've never played Euchre but I played plenty of Spades in the Army. Phase 10 and Uno has seen a lot of play over the years, of course. I believe my favorite card game is Pitch. It's been years since I've played it but I really enjoy it. I played it - wow! - in my 20's and people these days don't seem to play it much around here. I played a lot of Spades and Hearts and Uno. Have never heard of Phase 10, have heard of Pitch but never played it. Also played a lot of Euchre, a little Bridge (with a blind from birthday partner with braille cards) and Pinochle. Quite a few others. If you like Scrabble you should try the card game Quiddler. I don't think anyone (besides me) ever figured out that the blind guy dealing braille cards knew where every card was when he dealt and had the memory to retain it. Even though I knew very little of the Bridge bidding conventions, we usually won, because he counted cards really well and the advantage when he dealt. I only played Bridge when they needed a 4th player. It was fun, but they are as serious if not more serious than poker players. I like Spades because you can play it with only two people very easily. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 11, 2022 20:46:49 GMT -5
I used to really dig Magic: The Gathering BUT that was back in the early days of the game. Some of the cards were broken but power creep was still down the road, and it seemed much easier to find a casual game. I believe starter decks were only $7.95 at the time but that might have been after the cost increase of a dollar. I picked up some of the newer cards about 6 months ago and it sure seems like the casual player is not the main focus. The special abilities seem crazy and the convoluted. Definitely not my cup of tea. I've never played Euchre but I played plenty of Spades in the Army. Phase 10 and Uno has seen a lot of play over the years, of course. I believe my favorite card game is Pitch. It's been years since I've played it but I really enjoy it. I played it - wow! - in my 20's and people these days don't seem to play it much around here. I played a lot of Spades and Hearts and Uno. Have never heard of Phase 10, have heard of Pitch but never played it. Also played a lot of Euchre, a little Bridge (with a blind from birthday partner with braille cards) and Pinochle. Quite a few others. If you like Scrabble you should try the card game Quiddler. I don't think anyone (besides me) ever figured out that the blind guy dealing braille cards knew where every card was when he dealt and had the memory to retain it. Even though I knew very little of the Bridge bidding conventions, we usually won, because he counted cards really well and the advantage when he dealt. I only played Bridge when they needed a 4th player. It was fun, but they are as serious if not more serious than poker players. I like Spades because you can play it with only two people very easily. Phase 10 can be found at Wal-Mart or Target. It has 10 phases - tricky, huh? - that has each player trying to complete combinations. It's been years but it might be two pair or 3 of a kind plus a pair or some other combination of cards. I forgot about Pinochle. Good game. That's hilarious about the blind guy counting cards.  Since you like Spades you would enjoy Pitch because it's like a crazy game of Spades. It plays similar to Spades with trump cards but there are some big differences. You don't have designated teams and you can play it with 5 (maybe more?) people. After the cards are dealt, everyone bids their hand, and you get your partner for that hand through this process. That team plays against all the other players that hand. If I recall correctly, everyone's score is separate and not team based. I dig it because you never know who your teammate is going to be OR if you are playing against the two. I really need to get a book a card game rules so I can remember all the rules. I just looked up the rules online and there are many variants. I have to find the one I used to play. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 11, 2022 23:05:25 GMT -5
I played a lot of Spades and Hearts and Uno. Have never heard of Phase 10, have heard of Pitch but never played it. Also played a lot of Euchre, a little Bridge (with a blind from birthday partner with braille cards) and Pinochle. Quite a few others. If you like Scrabble you should try the card game Quiddler. I don't think anyone (besides me) ever figured out that the blind guy dealing braille cards knew where every card was when he dealt and had the memory to retain it. Even though I knew very little of the Bridge bidding conventions, we usually won, because he counted cards really well and the advantage when he dealt. I only played Bridge when they needed a 4th player. It was fun, but they are as serious if not more serious than poker players. I like Spades because you can play it with only two people very easily. Phase 10 can be found at Wal-Mart or Target. It has 10 phases - tricky, huh? - that has each player trying to complete combinations. It's been years but it might be two pair or 3 of a kind plus a pair or some other combination of cards. I forgot about Pinochle. Good game. That's hilarious about the blind guy counting cards. Since you like Spades you would enjoy Pitch because it's like a crazy game of Spades. It plays similar to Spades with trump cards but there are some big differences. You don't have designated teams and you can play it with 5 (maybe more?) people. After the cards are dealt, everyone bids their hand, and you get your partner for that hand through this process. That team plays against all the other players that hand. If I recall correctly, everyone's score is separate and not team based. I dig it because you never know who your teammate is going to be OR if you are playing against the two. I really need to get a book a card game rules so I can remember all the rules. I just looked up the rules online and there are many variants. I have to find the one I used to play. That sounds like fun. That does remind me that I have played three person Euchre where there are no teams and that is a blast. |
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Post by hengest on Feb 12, 2022 10:00:39 GMT -5
I am very attracted to card games (not gambling games, card games, and not collectible card games), although I have no one to play with and no particular aptitude for them. However, when I learned the trick-taking mechanism as an adult (Spades and Hearts), I really loved it. I would be happy to play any game with that kind of mechanism. Here is a link to a description of the strangest trick-taking game I have ever heard of, Stýrivolt. In Eastern and Northern Europe, there is a class of games that are not played too much in North America, as far as I know, the beating games. A related but distinct core mechanic. This game of this type, "Durak" ("Fool"), is extremely popular in Russia. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 12, 2022 10:09:58 GMT -5
hengest That's cool! I always like learning about how they do things elsewhere so learning about European or Russian card games is really interesting.
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Post by hengest on Feb 12, 2022 10:12:36 GMT -5
I have never played Stýrivolt and am sure I would end up injured if I tried, but the Russian-style beating games, the mechanic is simple enough that I can basically play. Like a child, but oh well, you can't be an adult at everything.  What I like a lot about the old-school card games is that the games themselves are basically meaningless and they function as a social lubricant. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 12, 2022 10:31:03 GMT -5
I have never played Stýrivolt and am sure I would end up injured if I tried, but the Russian-style beating games, the mechanic is simple enough that I can basically play. Like a child, but oh well, you can't be an adult at everything.  What I like a lot about the old-school card games is that the games themselves are basically meaningless and they function as a social lubricant.Very true! I think that's why I can't really get into the current Magic: The Gathering cards. The early game had some areas of confusion between players, but it worked for hobbyists. It was supposed to be a pickup game that you could play in your spare time. There was a decent community forming and Duelist magazine would give strategy articles, interviews, etc. Now it's overblown with different types of play that have different banned lists and there's all sorts of special cards and special circumstances. UGH. |
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Post by hengest on Feb 12, 2022 19:49:01 GMT -5
I have never played Stýrivolt and am sure I would end up injured if I tried, but the Russian-style beating games, the mechanic is simple enough that I can basically play. Like a child, but oh well, you can't be an adult at everything. What I like a lot about the old-school card games is that the games themselves are basically meaningless and they function as a social lubricant.Very true! I think that's why I can't really get into the current Magic: The Gathering cards. The early game had some areas of confusion between players, but it worked for hobbyists. It was supposed to be a pickup game that you could play in your spare time. There was a decent community forming and Duelist magazine would give strategy articles, interviews, etc. Now it's overblown with different types of play that have different banned lists and there's all sorts of special cards and special circumstances. UGH. This just isn't the sort of thing I can get into. If you have a pack of cards, you can play any game you know or that someone can teach you all day long, if you have the chance. You finish and you put the cards away. Similarly, with a rules-lite system, no one but the ref has to know anything and all you really need is your mind. These games that involve endless buying, planning, collecting, organizing...well, it taps into things that just aren't fun for me. It would be interesting to sit down with some of the regulars here and play some Hearts and then to game for the rest of the day! |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 12, 2022 20:01:00 GMT -5
Very true! I think that's why I can't really get into the current Magic: The Gathering cards. The early game had some areas of confusion between players, but it worked for hobbyists. It was supposed to be a pickup game that you could play in your spare time. There was a decent community forming and Duelist magazine would give strategy articles, interviews, etc. Now it's overblown with different types of play that have different banned lists and there's all sorts of special cards and special circumstances. UGH. This just isn't the sort of thing I can get into. If you have a pack of cards, you can play any game you know or that someone can teach you all day long, if you have the chance. You finish and you put the cards away. Similarly, with a rules-lite system, no one but the ref has to know anything and all you really need is your mind. These games that involve endless buying, planning, collecting, organizing...well, it taps into things that just aren't fun for me. It would be interesting to sit down with some of the regulars here and play some Hearts and then to game for the rest of the day! I could not agree more. |
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Post by simrion on Feb 13, 2022 7:07:04 GMT -5
This just isn't the sort of thing I can get into. If you have a pack of cards, you can play any game you know or that someone can teach you all day long, if you have the chance. Well except for maybe Pinochle. I just can't wrap my head around that one! |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 13, 2022 10:10:16 GMT -5
Believe me, I get it. When the game first came out everything wasn't so hardcore about optimization. It was supposed to be a quick pick-up game to play at conventions if you had some downtime between events. Over the years it got needlessly complicated and definitely DOES NOT tailor to the casual player.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Feb 13, 2022 14:06:23 GMT -5
This just isn't the sort of thing I can get into. If you have a pack of cards, you can play any game you know or that someone can teach you all day long, if you have the chance. Well except for maybe Pinochle. I just can't wrap my head around that one! I have not played Pinochle since college, I really loved the game and at this point I would have to learn all over again. We played with a double deck of 96 cards, I guess these days they discard the nines and use a deck of 80 cards for double deck. |
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Post by Vladimir, The Dark Prince on Feb 20, 2022 22:31:50 GMT -5
What really gets me about the CCGs is that so many cards are rare by design. Get just a few cards and you have a permanent leg up on all your opponents.
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