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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 25, 2021 16:00:07 GMT -5
I remembered seeing the ads on issues of Dragon Magazine but I never did order a copy or ever see it in a store. All these years later and I did a search for it on the internet and found that copies are still for sale by the publisher. Since I was always intrigued by the existence of this Christian D&D type game I ordered a copy. Does anyone else have a copy? I don't know if I'll ever play it but I do want to give character creation a try. Rather than recreate the blog posts I made I will link them below for anyone that is interested: DragonRaid - A Closer Look 1DragonRaid - A Closer Look 2DragonRaid - A Closer Look 3DragonRaid - A Closer Look 4
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 25, 2021 16:15:30 GMT -5
I remembered seeing the ads on issues of Dragon Magazine but I never did order a copy or ever see it in a store. All these years later and I did a search for it on the internet and found that copies are still for sale by the publisher. Since I was always intrigued by the existence of this Christian D&D type game I ordered a copy. Does anyone else have a copy? I don't know if I'll ever play it but I do want to give character creation a try. Rather than recreate the blog posts I made I will link them below for anyone that is interested: DragonRaid - A Closer Look 1DragonRaid - A Closer Look 2DragonRaid - A Closer Look 3DragonRaid - A Closer Look 4
I am going to try to read your blog posts tonight. When you work on the character creation, please start a new thread for that. I want to follow what you do with that and what your options are. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 25, 2021 16:17:25 GMT -5
I remembered seeing the ads on issues of Dragon Magazine but I never did order a copy or ever see it in a store. All these years later and I did a search for it on the internet and found that copies are still for sale by the publisher. Since I was always intrigued by the existence of this Christian D&D type game I ordered a copy. Does anyone else have a copy? I don't know if I'll ever play it but I do want to give character creation a try. Rather than recreate the blog posts I made I will link them below for anyone that is interested: DragonRaid - A Closer Look 1DragonRaid - A Closer Look 2DragonRaid - A Closer Look 3DragonRaid - A Closer Look 4
I am going to try to read your blog posts tonight. When you work on the character creation, please start a new thread for that. I want to follow what you do with that and what your options are. You got it! |
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Post by mao on May 26, 2021 6:24:46 GMT -5
Yes, tell us more, I was interested in this back in the day. Did it have arcane or priestly magic? How about thieves?
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 26, 2021 16:48:41 GMT -5
Yes, tell us more, I was interested in this back in the day. Did it have arcane or priestly magic? How about thieves? I will definitely tell more! It had magic but not like D&D. The game uses WordRunes that are short quotes of Biblical scripture. It relied on the memory and skill of the player rather than the character; kinda like some of the early rpg games did. If you successfully recite the scripture it has an in-game effect. It makes sense for the game because it was a discipleship tool. I don't believe there are thieves. I will double check but basically all of the characters are LightRaiders; a paladin type basically. More coming.... |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 27, 2021 14:02:26 GMT -5
I finished going through the blog posts and that is quite a good review of the game. It seems to have been pretty complete and come with everything that you need to play. I think the only thing that I would not do is the part about using real Bible quotes in the game as the way to get effects (magic) in the game. I don't have a problem with the game as a whole, but that part does not really sit right with me. Of course to put that in context, I fail to appreciate a lot of the "Christian" memes people post on social media too.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 27, 2021 16:57:50 GMT -5
I finished going through the blog posts and that is quite a good review of the game. It seems to have been pretty complete and come with everything that you need to play. I think the only thing that I would not do is the part about using real Bible quotes in the game as the way to get effects (magic) in the game. I don't have a problem with the game as a whole, but that part does not really sit right with me. Of course to put that in context, I fail to appreciate a lot of the "Christian" memes people post on social media too. I totally understand and agree with your sentiment. The funny thing is that DragonRaid faced much of the same backlash as D&D. It's not really surprising when you think about it but it is what it is. BTW, I have yet to find a reference to the "evils of fantasy RPG" anywhere in the DragonRaid books so far. I'll keep searching but it seems like it was just presented as another alternative in a growing hobby. I'm still going to do a thread about character creation here. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 27, 2021 22:17:17 GMT -5
I finished going through the blog posts and that is quite a good review of the game. It seems to have been pretty complete and come with everything that you need to play. I think the only thing that I would not do is the part about using real Bible quotes in the game as the way to get effects (magic) in the game. I don't have a problem with the game as a whole, but that part does not really sit right with me. Of course to put that in context, I fail to appreciate a lot of the "Christian" memes people post on social media too. I totally understand and agree with your sentiment. The funny thing is that DragonRaid faced much of the same backlash as D&D. It's not really surprising when you think about it but it is what it is. BTW, I have yet to find a reference to the "evils of fantasy RPG" anywhere in the DragonRaid books so far. I'll keep searching but it seems like it was just presented as another alternative in a growing hobby. I'm still going to do a thread about character creation here. Yeah, I don't think it was anti-D&D at all. As I have mentioned before I was totally unaware of the whole Satanic panic thing until I read about it online after IIRC the year 2000. I live in Cleveland and Indianapolis during those years. I was recently talking to my sister who lived in the rural area we grew up in through the whole thing and she was aware of it, but never put stock in it, she knew I played and so she figured there was nothing to it and never brought it up to me. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 28, 2021 5:55:01 GMT -5
I totally understand and agree with your sentiment. The funny thing is that DragonRaid faced much of the same backlash as D&D. It's not really surprising when you think about it but it is what it is. BTW, I have yet to find a reference to the "evils of fantasy RPG" anywhere in the DragonRaid books so far. I'll keep searching but it seems like it was just presented as another alternative in a growing hobby. I'm still going to do a thread about character creation here. Yeah, I don't think it was anti-D&D at all. As I have mentioned before I was totally unaware of the whole Satanic panic thing until I read about it online after IIRC the year 2000. I live in Cleveland and Indianapolis during those years. I was recently talking to my sister who lived in the rural area we grew up in through the whole thing and she was aware of it, but never put stock in it, she knew I played and so she figured there was nothing to it and never brought it up to me. I pretty much skipped the Satanic Panic myself. I heard of stuff going on like D&D book burnings and kids getting their books taken from them. I never encountered that myself. I got D&D books for Christmas and Birthday presents. I'm a little surprised that I never experienced any of it being from Oklahoma. |
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Post by multiarms on Jun 3, 2021 21:15:09 GMT -5
These posts were very interesting to read, thanks for buying and reviewing this unique game. I've never heard of it before. I guess I missed those ads in Dragon when I was a kid.
I am a committed Christian myself. I am in a pew every Sunday and I serve in a church leadership role, and I have a Master's degree in Theology even. So I'm a real believer.
But I was an adult convert, so I missed out on much of the American Evangelical folk subculture such as "satanic panic" and "Heck houses," etc. When I was a kid I played tons of D&D and listened to heavy metal music, watched horror movies, etc. I still enjoy all those things. I like to think that I have a mature view of these forms of entertainment and how they integrate into my life and my faith.
Stuff like DragonRaid seems very quaint to me, and I guess I admire the creators' intention. But personally I would never play it or use it as a "discipleship tool" with youth. Because it's just not cool. It has an agenda, and kids can smell that agenda a mile away, and they just know it's not cool. But you know what is cool? Actual D&D. And if you can be cool and play D&D with kids, and be an honest an open Christian who can talk about Jesus without being a weirdo, then I think that's an even better form of discipleship and evangelism. Just my two cents.
Fascinating cultural artifact though, and I really appreciate the reviews.
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Post by multiarms on Jun 3, 2021 21:17:36 GMT -5
Haha also I just noticed this board auto-changed "H-E-L-L" to "heck" lol
Also, some of the extras included in DragonRaid are actually pretty cool, like the counters and the battle tracker pad. I have to admire their hard work in putting the game together.
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Post by mao on Jun 4, 2021 3:44:33 GMT -5
These posts were very interesting to read, thanks for buying and reviewing this unique game. I've never heard of it before. I guess I missed those ads in Dragon when I was a kid. I am a committed Christian myself. I am in a pew every Sunday and I serve in a church leadership role, and I have a Master's degree in Theology even. So I'm a real believer. But I was an adult convert, so I missed out on much of the American Evangelical folk subculture such as "satanic panic" and "Heck houses," etc. When I was a kid I played tons of D&D and listened to heavy metal music, watched horror movies, etc. I still enjoy all those things. I like to think that I have a mature view of these forms of entertainment and how they integrate into my life and my faith. Stuff like DragonRaid seems very quaint to me, and I guess I admire the creators' intention. But personally I would never play it or use it as a "discipleship tool" with youth. Because it's just not cool. It has an agenda, and kids can smell that agenda a mile away, and they just know it's not cool. But you know what is cool? Actual D&D. And if you can be cool and play D&D with kids, and be an honest an open Christian who can talk about Jesus without being a weirdo, then I think that's an even better form of discipleship and evangelism. Just my two cents. Fascinating cultural artifact though, and I really appreciate the reviews. There are a lot of Christians here, very nice |
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Post by multiarms on Jun 4, 2021 7:27:03 GMT -5
I believe that D&D and the mythic fantasy genre in general are closely intertwined with Christianity especially in its Western/European tradition. Which is somewhat ironic since the current corporations who own D&D and the people who are the most visible in the current fantasy literature world are seemingly wanting to distance themselves from the traditional worldview and values of Western Civilization.
But it's "baked in" to the genre, in my opinion. Trying to remove vestiges of Christian values and all the European roots from mythic fantasy is like trying to have white supremacist rock music... you just can't do it in any coherent way. Rock n' roll comes from black blues music, and it's always there no matter what. Just look at the roots of our game.
King Arthur, questing for the Holy Grail.
Slaying dragons (Satan), good vs. evil (law vs. chaos).
The Lord of the Rings.
Narnia.
Poul Anderson's Three Hearts.
Clerics turning away the undead with a cross.
These are all explicitly Christian mythic tropes.
Christianity is a faith with a long tradition of imagination, allegory, and storytelling. Our Scriptures are a type of mythic story with epic battles, giants, demons, heroes, tragedy & comedy, etc. And there are so many fantastic supernatural elements of the Christian life and tradition.
This is why I don't need a special Christianized version of D&D. Anything I run is already in some form a traditional "Christian" game (whether my players know it or believe or not). Haha.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 4, 2021 13:30:18 GMT -5
I agree with you, it really is baked in and integrated from the beginning.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jun 5, 2021 7:13:05 GMT -5
These posts were very interesting to read, thanks for buying and reviewing this unique game. I've never heard of it before. I guess I missed those ads in Dragon when I was a kid. I am a committed Christian myself. I am in a pew every Sunday and I serve in a church leadership role, and I have a Master's degree in Theology even. So I'm a real believer. But I was an adult convert, so I missed out on much of the American Evangelical folk subculture such as "satanic panic" and "Heck houses," etc. When I was a kid I played tons of D&D and listened to heavy metal music, watched horror movies, etc. I still enjoy all those things. I like to think that I have a mature view of these forms of entertainment and how they integrate into my life and my faith. Stuff like DragonRaid seems very quaint to me, and I guess I admire the creators' intention. But personally I would never play it or use it as a "discipleship tool" with youth. Because it's just not cool. It has an agenda, and kids can smell that agenda a mile away, and they just know it's not cool. But you know what is cool? Actual D&D. And if you can be cool and play D&D with kids, and be an honest an open Christian who can talk about Jesus without being a weirdo, then I think that's an even better form of discipleship and evangelism. Just my two cents. Fascinating cultural artifact though, and I really appreciate the reviews. Thanks! I completely agree with your thoughts. The game is an interesting artifact from the 80s. It's a cool conversation piece and I can definitely get behind the game being presented as an alternative instead of ranting and raving about the "evils of D&D"; ironically, DR faced much of the same backlash from the very same groups bashing D&D. The creators seem to have taken the high road and that's admirable. You're spot on. Kids can recognize what DR and similar products are trying to do. I don't fault the creator for a "Christianized D&D" but I think that there's a better way to do it just like you stated above. I know the creators are working on a second edition but if it was in my hands I would also do a setting book for D&D. The roots are already there firmly in place in D&D. A setting book expanding the world of EdenAgain, detailing monsters, giving advice for adventures, and showing you how to play up the Christian aspects instead of trying to be a straight up discipleship tool would probably be more effective. That's just my two cents and hopefully I made sense...lol. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 5, 2021 12:04:48 GMT -5
These posts were very interesting to read, thanks for buying and reviewing this unique game. I've never heard of it before. I guess I missed those ads in Dragon when I was a kid. I am a committed Christian myself. I am in a pew every Sunday and I serve in a church leadership role, and I have a Master's degree in Theology even. So I'm a real believer. But I was an adult convert, so I missed out on much of the American Evangelical folk subculture such as "satanic panic" and "Heck houses," etc. When I was a kid I played tons of D&D and listened to heavy metal music, watched horror movies, etc. I still enjoy all those things. I like to think that I have a mature view of these forms of entertainment and how they integrate into my life and my faith. Stuff like DragonRaid seems very quaint to me, and I guess I admire the creators' intention. But personally I would never play it or use it as a "discipleship tool" with youth. Because it's just not cool. It has an agenda, and kids can smell that agenda a mile away, and they just know it's not cool. But you know what is cool? Actual D&D. And if you can be cool and play D&D with kids, and be an honest an open Christian who can talk about Jesus without being a weirdo, then I think that's an even better form of discipleship and evangelism. Just my two cents. Fascinating cultural artifact though, and I really appreciate the reviews. Thanks! I completely agree with your thoughts. The game is an interesting artifact from the 80s. It's a cool conversation piece and I can definitely get behind the game being presented as an alternative instead of ranting and raving about the "evils of D&D"; ironically, DR faced much of the same backlash from the very same groups bashing D&D. The creators seem to have taken the high road and that's admirable. You're spot on. Kids can recognize what DR and similar products are trying to do. I don't fault the creator for a "Christianized D&D" but I think that there's a better way to do it just like you stated above. I know the creators are working on a second edition but if it was in my hands I would also do a setting book for D&D. The roots are already there firmly in place in D&D. A setting book expanding the world of EdenAgain, detailing monsters, giving advice for adventures, and showing you how to play up the Christian aspects instead of trying to be a straight up discipleship tool would probably be more effective. That's just my two cents and hopefully I made sense...lol. If there is one thing I know from reffing OD&D with kids, it is this - if you are having fun and they are having fun, there are dozens of lessons that can be taught, learned and retained without them ever being overtly stated. Take the very basic lesson of actions have consequences - that is hard wired into OD&D and in OD&D kids can learn lessons around that one thing on levels that they would not normally encounter until they were much older. That is only one tiny example. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jun 5, 2021 16:24:33 GMT -5
Thanks! I completely agree with your thoughts. The game is an interesting artifact from the 80s. It's a cool conversation piece and I can definitely get behind the game being presented as an alternative instead of ranting and raving about the "evils of D&D"; ironically, DR faced much of the same backlash from the very same groups bashing D&D. The creators seem to have taken the high road and that's admirable. You're spot on. Kids can recognize what DR and similar products are trying to do. I don't fault the creator for a "Christianized D&D" but I think that there's a better way to do it just like you stated above. I know the creators are working on a second edition but if it was in my hands I would also do a setting book for D&D. The roots are already there firmly in place in D&D. A setting book expanding the world of EdenAgain, detailing monsters, giving advice for adventures, and showing you how to play up the Christian aspects instead of trying to be a straight up discipleship tool would probably be more effective. That's just my two cents and hopefully I made sense...lol. If there is one thing I know from reffing OD&D with kids, it is this - if you are having fun and they are having fun, there are dozens of lessons that can be taught, learned and retained without them ever being overtly stated. Take the very basic lesson of actions have consequences - that is hard wired into OD&D and in OD&D kids can learn lessons around that one thing on levels that they would not normally encounter until they were much older. That is only one tiny example. You nailed it. Simple stuff like "look before you leap" are easily taught by playing D&D. |
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Post by mao on Jun 9, 2021 8:35:45 GMT -5
I love the fact that for some reason I can't fathom, we attract Christians. The only thing I can think of it is that OD&D is oriented around it.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 9, 2021 11:10:55 GMT -5
I love the fact that for some reason I can't fathom, we attract Christians. The only thing I can think of it is that OD&D is oriented around it. I think it is partly because so many other venues are so anti-Christian, some of it unintentional and some intentional. |
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Post by dicecapades on Jun 16, 2021 15:16:29 GMT -5
That is a pretty complete review up in the OP. Thanks!
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jun 16, 2021 16:14:15 GMT -5
That is a pretty complete review up in the OP. Thanks! Thanks! Much appreciated!! |
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Post by hengest on May 29, 2023 15:54:56 GMT -5
Good thread.
Seems to me the satanic panic stuff may have been backlash against an engaging social activity. Some people do not want their kids engaged socially.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jun 3, 2023 7:33:11 GMT -5
Good thread. Seems to me the satanic panic stuff may have been backlash against an engaging social activity. Some people do not want their kids engaged socially. Thanks! I agree. It's still weird to me that several of the people protesting and railing against D&D for "satanic stuff" were also spouting the same nonsense about Dragonraid. |
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Post by muddywater on Mar 27, 2024 21:37:31 GMT -5
These posts were very interesting to read, thanks for buying and reviewing this unique game. I've never heard of it before. I guess I missed those ads in Dragon when I was a kid. I am a committed Christian myself. I am in a pew every Sunday and I serve in a church leadership role, and I have a Master's degree in Theology even. So I'm a real believer. But I was an adult convert, so I missed out on much of the American Evangelical folk subculture such as "satanic panic" and "Heck houses," etc. When I was a kid I played tons of D&D and listened to heavy metal music, watched horror movies, etc. I still enjoy all those things. I like to think that I have a mature view of these forms of entertainment and how they integrate into my life and my faith. Stuff like DragonRaid seems very quaint to me, and I guess I admire the creators' intention. But personally I would never play it or use it as a "discipleship tool" with youth. Because it's just not cool. It has an agenda, and kids can smell that agenda a mile away, and they just know it's not cool. But you know what is cool? Actual D&D. And if you can be cool and play D&D with kids, and be an honest an open Christian who can talk about Jesus without being a weirdo, then I think that's an even better form of discipleship and evangelism. Just my two cents. Fascinating cultural artifact though, and I really appreciate the reviews. The agenda is what does it in and besides which, the lessons you can teach through D&D are organic and don't reek of an agenda. Basic things like actions have consequences are pretty hard wired into D&D. |
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