spinoff - "treasure trove of books"

[hengest]

Q: During these past 15-20 years, which works of non-fiction have you found to be both especially enjoyable and particularly helpful?

RJK: Any good scientific dictionary or encyclopedia. Geo-physics, astrophysics, etc. Comprehensive treatises and encyclopedias of myth, legend and folklore. Books on ancient and modern cartography. That’s the tip of it. The Internet Archive is a treasure trove of books that supplement my research library, the latter that has fluctuated over time between 500-1,000 primary titles. I’ve invested some princely sums in my library (40+ titles for one book I’m writing) and I have collected more research material than I’ll ever get around to fully utilizing in my works.

RJK gives a pretty broad answer here (to be fair, it's a broad question).

Spinning off from this, some questions for discussion:

• what works of non-fiction have you found to be helpful (in gaming, in design, in worldbuilding)?
• is there a single work of non-fiction that was a "game-changer" for you?
• have digital resources (Internet Archive, Wikipedia, similar, or other) changed how you absorb information?
• what, to you, are the differences between myth and folktales?
• what is one area of human study that you could read about in non-fiction books, and would like to read about, but have not?

[Admin Pete]

Apr 6, 2021 17:51:36 GMT -5 hengest said:

Q: During these past 15-20 years, which works of non-fiction have you found to be both especially enjoyable and particularly helpful?

RJK: Any good scientific dictionary or encyclopedia. Geo-physics, astrophysics, etc. Comprehensive treatises and encyclopedias of myth, legend and folklore. Books on ancient and modern cartography. That’s the tip of it. The Internet Archive is a treasure trove of books that supplement my research library, the latter that has fluctuated over time between 500-1,000 primary titles. I’ve invested some princely sums in my library (40+ titles for one book I’m writing) and I have collected more research material than I’ll ever get around to fully utilizing in my works.

RJK gives a pretty broad answer here (to be fair, it's a broad question).

Spinning off from this, some questions for discussion:

• what works of non-fiction have you found to be helpful (in gaming, in design, in worldbuilding)?
• is there a single work of non-fiction that was a "game-changer" for you?
• have digital resources (Internet Archive, Wikipedia, similar, or other) changed how you absorb information?
• what, to you, are the differences between myth and folktales?
• what is one area of human study that you could read about in non-fiction books, and would like to read about, but have not?

I will tackle the differences between myth and folktales.

To me myths are mythology and the tales of gods and goddesses and other related types of stories. They try to explain how the world began and why it is the way it is. Myths grow out of antiquity and are found in every culture. They are a pagan artifact of people trying to discover the truth and making up stories to fill the void. A blending of history and religion, usually semi-accurate history and completely made up religion. When people don't know the reality, they make up something to take its place or when people know the truth and it is too scary or perceived to be difficult they make up something to take its place. Regardless of the peoples or the cultures, the Roman gods, Greek gods, Norse gods and all the others have one thing in common, their "gods" have the same flaws as people do, without any superior morals or ethics. Indeed most of the time they are less moral and less ethical than the people themselves are.

Folktales are usually centered around specific people, sometimes heroes, sometimes future heroes, sometimes simple, good-hearted people and others. These are usually passed on in oral tradition from generation to generation. Usually there are many different versions of the tales circulating at the same time. Usually, but not always, ordinary people interacting with powerful or supernatural foes.

Myths have a more set canon than folktales do. In recent centuries more and more is written down and things become more set in stone. But even in books, the variety of versions of folktales is preserved because different editors of the tales received them from different sources.

[The Editor]

Apr 6, 2021 17:51:36 GMT -5 hengest said:

RJK gives a pretty broad answer here (to be fair, it's a broad question).

Spinning off from this, some questions for discussion:

• what works of non-fiction have you found to be helpful (in gaming, in design, in worldbuilding)?
• is there a single work of non-fiction that was a "game-changer" for you?
• have digital resources (Internet Archive, Wikipedia, similar, or other) changed how you absorb information?
• what, to you, are the differences between myth and folktales?
• what is one area of human study that you could read about in non-fiction books, and would like to read about, but have not?

I would have to agree with RJK about non-fiction. Parts of the biographies can be very useful, along with the other resources he mentioned. Descriptions of battles, stories of how discoveries were made, observations made by people like Margaret Mead. You never know just what you read that might trigger an idea. History, geography, geology, the story of how scientific discoveries happened. All of it can jump out and grab you on first reading or can just sit there in memory until one day it gets combined with several other memories and some trigger brings it all together.

[solfe]

As far as non-fiction goes, the Battle of Bedriacum (or the Second Battle of Cremona, 69 AD) has a special place for me. Any telling is the stuff of legends. Vitellius was emperor of Rome and Vespasian was a general coming out of Judaea via Syria to depose him. The interesting point of the battle was Vitellius had deposed Emperor Otho in the exact same place in the first battle of Bedriacum. The other interesting point was that neither Vespasian or Vitellius were on the scene as the battle started.

The reason two different battles occurred at this place was if an invading army crossed the Alps to enter Italy with no prior warning, Bedriacum and Cremona was about as far as one could march before meeting resistance from Rome. This area has a river and hills which causes troops to line up east and west facing, even if their path had been north-south. South moving invaders end up facing the west while the north moving defenders face east. This is actually important.

Since neither leader was on the scene, the troops went off their chains believing their commanders were holding them back from victory and glory. So when the armies faced off in the early afternoon, they wouldn't stop fighting as the sun set. Both sides believed that if stuff went bad, they could hightail it to their nearest city. Reinforcements from the cities threw themselves into the fight all night long. It was one of the rare cases of a night battle in ancient times. Vespasian troops were hard press in the dark and one of the legions lost their eagles in the fight. This a serious point of honor for the Romans, so when a lone centurion recovered them at the cost of his life, it was no small victory. It sparked more intense fighting in the dark of night.

As the sun rose, the battle had slowed but perhaps the defenders could pull off a victory. Then Vespasian's III Gallica Legion did something incredible to stop that from happening. They turned to the east and let out a might cheer. They literally turned their backs on the enemy to do this. Fearing reinforcements, the defenders retreated. It turns out the III Gallica Legion had took up a Syrian custom and hailed the sunrise every day. There were no reinforcements coming.

SInce the the troops had been pouring in reinforcements from "their city" all night long, Vitellius's retreat was rushed and unsupported. Cremona was crushed and sacked in short order. So short in fact, the new emperor declared that making slaves of the survivors of Cremona was retroactively illegal.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jun 29, 2021 23:25:13 GMT -5 solfe said:

As far as non-fiction goes, the Battle of Bedriacum (or the Second Battle of Cremona, 69 AD) has a special place for me. Any telling is the stuff of legends. Vitellius was emperor of Rome and Vespasian was a general coming out of Judaea via Syria to depose him. The interesting point of the battle was Vitellius had deposed Emperor Otho in the exact same place in the first battle of Bedriacum. The other interesting point was that neither Vespasian or Vitellius were on the scene as the battle started.

The reason two different battles occurred at this place was if an invading army crossed the Alps to enter Italy with no prior warning, Bedriacum and Cremona was about as far as one could march before meeting resistance from Rome. This area has a river and hills which causes troops to line up east and west facing, even if their path had been north-south. South moving invaders end up facing the west while the north moving defenders face east. This is actually important.

Since neither leader was on the scene, the troops went off their chains believing their commanders were holding them back from victory and glory. So when the armies faced off in the early afternoon, they wouldn't stop fighting as the sun set. Both sides believed that if stuff went bad, they could hightail it to their nearest city. Reinforcements from the cities threw themselves into the fight all night long. It was one of the rare cases of a night battle in ancient times. Vespasian troops were hard press in the dark and one of the legions lost their eagles in the fight. This a serious point of honor for the Romans, so when a lone centurion recovered them at the cost of his life, it was no small victory. It sparked more intense fighting in the dark of night.

As the sun rose, the battle had slowed but perhaps the defenders could pull off a victory. Then Vespasian's III Gallica Legion did something incredible to stop that from happening. They turned to the east and let out a might cheer. They literally turned their backs on the enemy to do this. Fearing reinforcements, the defenders retreated. It turns out the III Gallica Legion had took up a Syrian custom and hailed the sunrise every day. There were no reinforcements coming.

SInce the the troops had been pouring in reinforcements from "their city" all night long, Vitellius's retreat was rushed and unsupported. Cremona was crushed and sacked in short order. So short in fact, the new emperor declared that making slaves of the survivors of Cremona was retroactively illegal.

WOW!!! I did not know any of that. Also I wonder if there are any other stories of battles being won by following a custom unrelated to battle.

[solfe]

Well, as a tangent to this story, Vespasian had an aurora around him that is highly conflicted. He had been sent by Nero to bring Judea to heel in 69 AD. News traveled slowly back then. So in 67-8 AD, Rome was still hearing stories of a king rising from the East and Jews were pretty common on the Peninsula. Christians would have been synonymous with Jewish at the time. 

Politically, all of this was treated "as per normal" by the Romans, but what the details meant were not what we would think. The east was full of mystery religions that the Romans tried to adopt. Also, "the King of Kings" was a fairly common name for eastern leaders, which the Romans found pretty normal. What they objected to was religions that were not polytheistic and Kings in general. They didn't know what to do with monotheism, but kings had a pretty standard law in place: "Kill on sight".  

Vespasian heard this stuff and combined it to gain supporters. He morphed "King from the East" to "Ruler from the East". He also made a point of not dispelling the notion that this Ruler had healed people and raised the dead. As a consequence, when he came Westward at the head of the Eastern legions, people assumed he could raise the dead and heal the sick. 

The situation in Rome at the time was Nero killed himself, Galba Nero's replacement was assassinated, Otho committed suicide after fighting Vitellius for the title of Emperor. Galba was from Spain, Vitellius was from the Rhine region and Otho was a bit of a globe trotter. This meant everyone following Vitellius was associated with the provinces surrounding the entry to Italy. By carefully cultivating these stories out the "Ruler from the East", Vespasian was able to grab up people surrounding the peninsula as supporters. People who really should have resisted. By the time he became Emperor, people were pretty burned out. Five Emperors in just 18 months is a lot. 

Vespasian wasn't dumb. He really bucked some trends in Rome. For instance, he walked in dressed as a private citizen to meet with the senate, then dispensed with his bodyguards when talking to individual senators. He had a beard which was a big no-no, wore plain clothes and actually dressed himself. Most Emperors would have had a slave for underclothes, over clothes and shoes, and they would have different slaves for putting on and taking off. A whole 'nother group of slaves would be used for formal attire and military attire. None of the "God Emperor" or "Might Makes Right Emperor" styling the last four guys pulled. He encouraged the letters, for both an honest desire to support science but also to promote his regime as one that "Wins the Peace". He was presented a "well-researched" personal family tree which proved he was a descendant of Hercules. He was polite enough to thank the researchers without actually placing any credence in it. He is one of the few emperors who actually became a better person for the title. 

[hengest]

Jul 1, 2021 13:01:23 GMT -5 solfe said:

Well, as a tangent to this story, Vespasian had an aurora around him that is highly conflicted. He had been sent by Nero to bring Judea to heel in 69 AD. News traveled slowly back then. So in 67-8 AD, Rome was still hearing stories of a king rising from the East and Jews were pretty common on the Peninsula. Christians would have been synonymous with Jewish at the time. 

Politically, all of this was treated "as per normal" by the Romans, but what the details meant were not what we would think. The east was full of mystery religions that the Romans tried to adopt. Also, "the King of Kings" was a fairly common name for eastern leaders, which the Romans found pretty normal. What they objected to was religions that were not polytheistic and Kings in general. They didn't know what to do with monotheism, but kings had a pretty standard law in place: "Kill on sight".  

Vespasian heard this stuff and combined it to gain supporters. He morphed "King from the East" to "Ruler from the East". He also made a point of not dispelling the notion that this Ruler had healed people and raised the dead. As a consequence, when he came Westward at the head of the Eastern legions, people assumed he could raise the dead and heal the sick. 

The situation in Rome at the time was Nero killed himself, Galba Nero's replacement was assassinated, Otho committed suicide after fighting Vitellius for the title of Emperor. Galba was from Spain, Vitellius was from the Rhine region and Otho was a bit of a globe trotter. This meant everyone following Vitellius was associated with the provinces surrounding the entry to Italy. By carefully cultivating these stories out the "Ruler from the East", Vespasian was able to grab up people surrounding the peninsula as supporters. People who really should have resisted. By the time he became Emperor, people were pretty burned out. Five Emperors in just 18 months is a lot. 

Vespasian wasn't dumb. He really bucked some trends in Rome. For instance, he walked in dressed as a private citizen to meet with the senate, then dispensed with his bodyguards when talking to individual senators. He had a beard which was a big no-no, wore plain clothes and actually dressed himself. Most Emperors would have had a slave for underclothes, over clothes and shoes, and they would have different slaves for putting on and taking off. A whole 'nother group of slaves would be used for formal attire and military attire. None of the "God Emperor" or "Might Makes Right Emperor" styling the last four guys pulled. He encouraged the letters, for both an honest desire to support science but also to promote his regime as one that "Wins the Peace". He was presented a "well-researched" personal family tree which proved he was a descendant of Hercules. He was polite enough to thank the researchers without actually placing any credence in it. He is one of the few emperors who actually became a better person for the title. 

I knew exactly none of this.  Great post, have an Exalt.  Just what's here is so usable or reskinnable in-game, but also is fascinating on its own.  It really put you back in that time and makes you feel like it's not so distant.  Excellent post.

[solfe]

Thank you!

Let's have another, by a slightly lesser known man.

In 508 BC, the Clusians (an Etruscan city) were at war with the city of Rome. They laid siege to the city.

Gaius Mucius Cordus went to the Roman Senate and asked permission to assassinate the Clusian king, Lars Porsena to break the siege. He made his way to the enemy camp to ambush and kill the king. Unfortunately for Gaius, it was payday. So the soldiers knew who was actually paying them, the paymaster (in the ancient writing, he was called a scribe) was dressed like the King. Confused, Gaius attacked the paymaster in a case of mistaken identity.

Taken prisoner, Gaius was confronted by the King. As the Lars interviewed him, Gaius placed his right hand in a fire and announced that there were 300 assassins like him, all wanting the glory of killing Lars. He wouldn't remove his hand even though the King asked him to relent. He told the King that no Roman valued their bodies when given a chance to kill a king. Shaken, the King released Gaius and sued for peace with Rome.

Gaius was given the cognomen "Scaevola", which means left handed. Basically, he was known as "Lefty" for the rest of his life. Gaius was also given land on the Tiber River, called Prata Mucius (Musius's Meadows). By 20 AD, the place had become a legend as the name was known but not the location.

This tale also loops back to the reason why the Romans hated kings so much. Lucius Tarquinius Superbus was the 7th and last king of Rome. He deposed the prior king of Rome and got the Romans in a war with one the Etruscan cities. It went badly for Rome. The Romans revolted and formed a Republic so as never to have a tyrant king again. When Tarquinius fled to Etruscan lands, which were a series of connected city-states. He managed to get the Etruscans. especially Clusians to fight the Romans in the hope of getting his crown back. He provoked a couple of wars between Rome and the Etruscan city-states, but died without every getting his throne back.

This also highlights the difference between Rome and many of their enemies. Roman were warriors with a common religious belief, which included the idea of "a just war". They wouldn't fight without "good reason", which was very often some sort of mild insult taken to extremes. The Etruscans were traders with a common culture, so if Rome and one Etruscan city was at war, the other cities would engage in war profiteering by trading with both sides. Good for business, but great for draining away your armies. By the time the Etruscans realized they needed to band together militarily, it was far too late.

[hengest]

solfe Another great post. Where did you learn all this? It's all so fresh even though it happened so long ago. Color me impressed.

Edit: and have an Exalt!

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I know one thing that I really get into and that is reading about animals and their ecology and how they live. I really get into that.

[oldskolgmr]

Nonfiction that changed my view of gaming? Hmm...

Reading folktales and mythology.

Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces (wuff, interesting but never again).

Gilgamesh, Stanford University Press (very cool), and Penguin translations. <EDIT, the best stuff for my time ever!>

Parts of The Prose Edda by Snorri Sturluson, Penguin. The section where you see a combination of Greek myths, Norse myth, and the Bible. <EDIT, the second-best stuff!>

Parts of the OT and NT Bibles, King James version, my favorites are Genesis, and Revelations. The King James version has the most evocative language to me. 

Gun, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond (my friends who have history PHD's have discredited the theory, but still a great read).

The Little Ice Age by Brian Fagan.

Chinese martial arts: from antiquity to the twenty-first century / Peter A. Lorge, Cambridge University Press, 2012.

Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia, by Donn F. Draeger. 

A really good scholarly book on European fighting styles of the medieval period, at the U of Arizona, I can't access the title. It had awesome illustrations, quotes, and translations from weapons teachers of the various times.   

[hengest]

oldskolgmr, have an Exalt for that post! When you say that book was at the U of Arizona, did you mean you were a student there when you read the book, or that the book was published there?

[oldskolgmr]

Thank you hengest!

I had access there as a high schooler through a community membership my mom purchased, and I was a student the University of Arizona.
I was taking Aikido classes when I read it in high school, and I was appalled at that age with the seeming disregard of unarmed techniques in Europe.  
By college, rereading the book, I was already a student of Filipino stick and knife martial arts (Escrima). 
If you've never tried to dodge or disarm an opponent with a rubber knife, who resists you while trying to cut or stab you with said rubber knife, then Wow! Same with padded stick. 
Modern media, (and IMHO (YMMV) most martial arts schools I attended, until the Filipino martial arts [and they worked from an assumption that you would be armed most of the time]) do not present an appropriate depiction of fighting or self-defense.  

I read Chinese martial arts: from antiquity to the twenty-first century / Peter A. Lorge, Cambridge University Press, 2012. As I said, and it presented a similarly realistic view of early Chinese battlefield warfare. 
The polearm, spear, and heavy broad sword ruled. (An ancient Chinese battlefield broad sword was equally as heavy as a European broadsword, single edged and top heavy for chopping like a falchion.)

[True Black Raven]

Jan 11, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -5 oldskolgmr said:

Thank you hengest !

I had access there as a high schooler through a community membership my mom purchased, and I was a student the University of Arizona.
I was taking Aikido classes when I read it in high school, and I was appalled at that age with the seeming disregard of unarmed techniques in Europe.  
By college, rereading the book, I was already a student of Filipino stick and knife martial arts (Escrima). 
If you've never tried to dodge or disarm an opponent with a rubber knife, who resists you while trying to cut or stab you with said rubber knife, then Wow! Same with padded stick. 
Modern media, (and IMHO (YMMV) most martial arts schools I attended, until the Filipino martial arts [and they worked from an assumption that you would be armed most of the time]) do not present an appropriate depiction of fighting or self-defense.  

I read Chinese martial arts: from antiquity to the twenty-first century / Peter A. Lorge, Cambridge University Press, 2012. As I said, and it presented a similarly realistic view of early Chinese battlefield warfare. 
The polearm, spear, and heavy broad sword ruled. (An ancient Chinese battlefield broad sword was equally as heavy as a European broadsword, single edged and top heavy for chopping like a falchion.)

Seems to me that I have read that about modern mass marketed consumer martial arts, that they are lacking somewhat in what they claim to be providing to you. As for modern media I don't think you should assume anything they show you as being realistic. The onscreen fights have people absorbing attacks that should kill them. In fact, all onscreen fights are choreographed just like "professional" "wrestling."

[Admin Pete]

Jan 11, 2022 10:43:09 GMT -5 True Black Raven said:

Jan 11, 2022 8:43:53 GMT -5 oldskolgmr said:

Thank you hengest !

I had access there as a high schooler through a community membership my mom purchased, and I was a student the University of Arizona.
I was taking Aikido classes when I read it in high school, and I was appalled at that age with the seeming disregard of unarmed techniques in Europe.  
By college, rereading the book, I was already a student of Filipino stick and knife martial arts (Escrima). 
If you've never tried to dodge or disarm an opponent with a rubber knife, who resists you while trying to cut or stab you with said rubber knife, then Wow! Same with padded stick. 
Modern media, (and IMHO (YMMV) most martial arts schools I attended, until the Filipino martial arts [and they worked from an assumption that you would be armed most of the time]) do not present an appropriate depiction of fighting or self-defense.  

I read Chinese martial arts: from antiquity to the twenty-first century / Peter A. Lorge, Cambridge University Press, 2012. As I said, and it presented a similarly realistic view of early Chinese battlefield warfare. 
The polearm, spear, and heavy broad sword ruled. (An ancient Chinese battlefield broad sword was equally as heavy as a European broadsword, single edged and top heavy for chopping like a falchion.)

Seems to me that I have read that about modern mass marketed consumer martial arts, that they are lacking somewhat in what they claim to be providing to you. As for modern media I don't think you should assume anything they show you as being realistic. The onscreen fights have people absorbing attacks that should kill them. In fact, all onscreen fights are choreographed just like "professional" "wrestling."

Only those people who have been in a lot of fights themselves or have served in combat have any idea what the real thing is like. Even watching boxing or MMA is a bit deceiving as those have rules and some protective components, but out in the real world there are no rules and fighting "dirty" is reality.

[oldskolgmr]

Perhaps we should spinoff a thread about how utterly realistic olde tyme games were. 

DM: "So your small party encounters Three Trolls and ten Orcs, what do you want to do?"

Players: "Run, like H@*!!"

<EDIT: I like this thread about books, and I apologize for derailing it. I'm suggesting a spinoff or new thread if we want to discuss anything else.>

[El Borak]

Jan 11, 2022 12:05:06 GMT -5 oldskolgmr said:

Perhaps we should spinoff a thread about how utterly realistic olde tyme games were. 

DM: "So your small party encounters Three Trolls and ten Orcs, what do you want to do?"

Players: "Run, like H@*!!"

<EDIT: I like this thread about books, and I apologize for derailing it. I'm suggesting a spinoff or new thread if we want to discuss anything else.>

Go ahead and start the new thread and as a former Admin, I will tell you we are not harsh with people for "derailing" threads like some places are, we are having conversations and those tend to wander out in the real world. So don't sweat it, but feel free to start new threads for new topics.

[oldskolgmr]

Thank you El Borak, I am not concerned about censure per se, but I really do like posting on Books.

Another non-fiction book I enjoyed was Tales of a Shaman's apprentice: Mark J. Plotkin. The author, an Ethnobotanist, "...recounts his travels and studies with some of the most powerful Amazonian shamans, who taught him the plant lore their tribes have spent thousands of years gleaning from the rain forest." From Goodreads. 

Link:
 

www.goodreads.com/book/show/515466.Tales_of_a_Shaman_s_Apprentice

[simrion]

Aug 7, 2021 10:23:44 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I know one thing that I really get into and that is reading about animals and their ecology and how they live. I really get into that.

As do I. amazed to learn from a book on NorthAmerican Game Animals that Polar Bears view the world as follows: Anything whitish in color is inedible. Anything that isn't is potentially dinner!

[hengest]

what works of non-fiction have you found to be helpful (in gaming, in design, in worldbuilding)?

I guess I have to say that general reading about medieval very everyday realities (cooking, clothing, and so on, not politics or religion) has influenced me heavily. It is easy to romanticize those times, but I do believe that people then were more in touch with the rich meaning of such real things as bread and wine, water and fire. So I would say "medieval realia" plus the tone and vocabulary of Tolkien's walking song that the hobbits sing:

Upon the hearth the fire is red,
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet,
Still round the corner we may meet
A sudden tree or standing stone
That none have seen but we alone.
Tree and flower and leaf and grass,
Let them pass! Let them pass!
Hill and water under sky,
Pass them by! Pass them by!

Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
Towards the Moon or to the Sun.
Apple, thorn, and nut and sloe,
Let them go! Let them go!
Sand and stone and pool and dell,
Fare you well! Fare you well!

Home is behind, the world ahead,
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadows to the edge of night,
Until the stars are all alight.
Then world behind and home ahead,
We'll wander back to home and bed.
Mist and twilight, cloud and shade,
Away shall fade! Away shall fade!
Fire and lamp, and meat and bread,
And then to bed! And then to bed!

[El Borak]

Jan 15, 2022 8:31:19 GMT -5 oldskolgmr said:

Thank you El Borak , I am not concerned about censure per se, but I really do like posting on Books.

Another non-fiction book I enjoyed was Tales of a Shaman's apprentice: Mark J. Plotkin. The author, an Ethnobotanist, "...recounts his travels and studies with some of the most powerful Amazonian shamans, who taught him the plant lore their tribes have spent thousands of years gleaning from the rain forest." From Goodreads. 

Link:
 

www.goodreads.com/book/show/515466.Tales_of_a_Shaman_s_Apprentice

I will have to see if I can get my hands on that, looks like a really good book.

In one of the reviews, a Brazilian talks about the good and the bad of Mr. Plotkin, that is also very interesting. Although his preserving the plant lore is awesome, his arrogance in thinking he knows what is best for the tribe is so very western. 

[raikenclw]

Jan 11, 2022 10:53:39 GMT -5 Admin Pete said:

Only those people who have been in a lot of fights themselves or have served in combat have any idea what the real thing is like. Even watching boxing or MMA is a bit deceiving as those have rules and some protective components, but out in the real world there are no rules and fighting "dirty" is reality.

Although it still isn't real, Keanu Reeves competes in multigun tactical shooting competitions . . .

Keanu Reeves Tactical Training

. . . so that amazing stuff John Wick pulls off is stuff he might actually be able to pull off in real life.

[simrion]

Apr 15, 2022 19:28:45 GMT -5 raikenclw said:

Jan 11, 2022 10:53:39 GMT -5 Admin Pete said:

Only those people who have been in a lot of fights themselves or have served in combat have any idea what the real thing is like. Even watching boxing or MMA is a bit deceiving as those have rules and some protective components, but out in the real world there are no rules and fighting "dirty" is reality.

Although it still isn't real, Keanu Reeves competes in multigun tactical shooting competitions . . .

Keanu Reeves Tactical Training

. . . so that amazing stuff John Wick pulls off is stuff he might actually be able to pull off in real life.

Saws a brief documentary about Keanu's prep for the role. He trained with an actual tactical trainer and not just a stunt coordinator. I suspect he can actually do a lot of what is shown in the films. The trainer's comments alluded to the fact Keanu dedicate 110% to learning the techniques.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

[simrion]

Apr 15, 2022 19:28:45 GMT -5 raikenclw said:

Jan 11, 2022 10:53:39 GMT -5 Admin Pete said:

Only those people who have been in a lot of fights themselves or have served in combat have any idea what the real thing is like. Even watching boxing or MMA is a bit deceiving as those have rules and some protective components, but out in the real world there are no rules and fighting "dirty" is reality.

Although it still isn't real, Keanu Reeves competes in multigun tactical shooting competitions . . .

Keanu Reeves Tactical Training

. . . so that amazing stuff John Wick pulls off is stuff he might actually be able to pull off in real life.

[hengest]

I had literally never heard of John Wick before this thread. I guess I have been living in a cave.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Apr 16, 2022 20:32:31 GMT -5 hengest said:

I had literally never heard of John Wick before this thread. I guess I have been living in a cave.

John Wick is AWESOME! 

[raikenclw]

Apr 17, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

Apr 16, 2022 20:32:31 GMT -5 hengest said:

I had literally never heard of John Wick before this thread. I guess I have been living in a cave.

John Wick is AWESOME! 

As the first film opens, Wick is a retired professional assassin. His wife has recently passed away, so he's understandably a bit depressed. He encounters some young, underworld-connected lowlifes and (in their view) fails to offer sufficient respect. Said lowlifes decide to "teach that guy a lesson."

Bad life decision. Really, really, REALLY bad life decision.

[hengest]

Apr 19, 2022 20:07:37 GMT -5 raikenclw said:

Bad life decision. Really, really, REALLY bad life decision.

So was this the "inspiration" for the movie Nobody with Bob Odenkirk? Or no?

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Apr 19, 2022 21:16:51 GMT -5 hengest said:

Apr 19, 2022 20:07:37 GMT -5 raikenclw said:

Bad life decision. Really, really, REALLY bad life decision.

So was this the "inspiration" for the movie Nobody with Bob Odenkirk? Or no?

I've been wanting to see Nobody.

From my best recollection, hengest, I believe one of the writers behind John Wick wrote Nobody or something like that.