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Post by hengest on Mar 26, 2021 22:38:32 GMT -5
Inspired by this post. There are lightspeed delays in communication. How could this be ported to a fantasy setting in a way that would make sense? Perhaps there is a nominal empire. But severe communications delays, or simple slowness so that cultures develop largely independent of each other. But rebellion is delayed as well. In fact the empire is only a bare bones central authority. A rump state that serves as a reality check for the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. An empire that is its own ghost. So normally we might have vassal states and petty kings that fancy themselves independent, here we have effectively independent kingdoms that believe they are under the empire's thumb. What is mechanism that delays communications in fantasy setting? - deliberate and ancient magic for this purpose or another (weak reason unless developed)
- quality of world causes information to pool like mercury or not to cross over mountains -- it somehow runs downhill. Cultural memory works but new information does not cross certain boundaries well. This must have been imposed at some point on the territory of an existing empire. Cultures continue to change and develop independently but come to understand they need to present an "old-timey" face at the border for neighbors to recognize.
- Reproduction slower (fewer children, more survival) and less need for travel and expansion
I like the second reason above best. May explore it more.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 27, 2021 0:26:09 GMT -5
How could this be ported to a fantasy setting in a way that would make sense? Perhaps there is a nominal empire. But severe communications delays, or simple slowness so that cultures develop largely independent of each other. But rebellion is delayed as well. In fact the empire is only a bare bones central authority. A rump state that serves as a reality check for the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. An empire that is its own ghost. So normally we might have vassal states and petty kings that fancy themselves independent, here we have effectively independent kingdoms that believe they are under the empire's thumb. I thought of taking this the other direction. Communication is slow for all of the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. Travel is difficult for everyone. But the relatively weak Empire, has two things everyone else lacks, one are really good embedded spies, several of which report to each local (select empire title) who uses the second thing the empire has. That second thing is a variation on the teleport spell that moves messages instead of the caster. They send each message three times, making it rare for a message not to get through since coming in high is not a problem and only a low result destroys a message. This allows the Emperor to respond quickly and send messages to each of the vassal states advising them about matters that had only been voiced privately and his response time leads them to believe that he knew these things when they were only thinking them. The Emperors messengers on horseback come and go, but are only for show, they really only travel a day or two away, and back giving the appearance of a relay of messengers when none actually exists. For variety they rotate the messengers that are coming and going from a spot in the wilderness. This keeps them cowed and afraid to proceed with a rebellion. |
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Post by hengest on Apr 24, 2021 8:41:53 GMT -5
How could this be ported to a fantasy setting in a way that would make sense? Perhaps there is a nominal empire. But severe communications delays, or simple slowness so that cultures develop largely independent of each other. But rebellion is delayed as well. In fact the empire is only a bare bones central authority. A rump state that serves as a reality check for the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. An empire that is its own ghost. So normally we might have vassal states and petty kings that fancy themselves independent, here we have effectively independent kingdoms that believe they are under the empire's thumb. I thought of taking this the other direction. Communication is slow for all of the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. Travel is difficult for everyone. But the relatively weak Empire, has two things everyone else lacks, one are really good embedded spies, several of which report to each local (select empire title) who uses the second thing the empire has. That second thing is a variation on the teleport spell that moves messages instead of the caster. They send each message three times, making it rare for a message not to get through since coming in high is not a problem and only a low result destroys a message. This allows the Emperor to respond quickly and send messages to each of the vassal states advising them about matters that had only been voiced privately and his response time leads them to believe that he knew these things when they were only thinking them. The Emperors messengers on horseback come and go, but are only for show, they really only travel a day or two away, and back giving the appearance of a relay of messengers when none actually exists. For variety they rotate the messengers that are coming and going from a spot in the wilderness. This keeps them cowed and afraid to proceed with a rebellion. This is a brilliant spin and I forgot to respond. It just goes to show a little twist on "tired" ideas can go a really long way. This right here could be an endless campaign without ever getting away from these core ideas. Actually this could be an awesome set of novels. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 24, 2021 11:11:12 GMT -5
I thought of taking this the other direction. Communication is slow for all of the various independent actors who believe they are vassal states. Travel is difficult for everyone. But the relatively weak Empire, has two things everyone else lacks, one are really good embedded spies, several of which report to each local (select empire title) who uses the second thing the empire has. That second thing is a variation on the teleport spell that moves messages instead of the caster. They send each message three times, making it rare for a message not to get through since coming in high is not a problem and only a low result destroys a message. This allows the Emperor to respond quickly and send messages to each of the vassal states advising them about matters that had only been voiced privately and his response time leads them to believe that he knew these things when they were only thinking them. The Emperors messengers on horseback come and go, but are only for show, they really only travel a day or two away, and back giving the appearance of a relay of messengers when none actually exists. For variety they rotate the messengers that are coming and going from a spot in the wilderness. This keeps them cowed and afraid to proceed with a rebellion. This is a brilliant spin and I forgot to respond. It just goes to show a little twist on "tired" ideas can go a really long way. This right here could be an endless campaign without ever getting away from these core ideas. Actually this could be an awesome set of novels. Thank you hengest, reading it again after a month of letting it sit, I like it even more than I did when I wrote it. Sorry, not sorry. I wish I could write novels, but I think I am one of those people who would need to collaborate with someone. |
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Post by mao on May 7, 2021 4:24:15 GMT -5
I havent posted this here yet so heres Dreamsend
L2 Mage spell
Dreamsend
When spell is cast a 25 word message is sent in your sleep to a sleeping recipient. It is very public but there are so many that it is effectively secure. The spell contains a 1st level spell called "Dream Receive" that must be cast on the recipient(once you link to another char you need not do it again.)
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Post by mao on May 19, 2021 8:06:03 GMT -5
I think that in a "normal" game that this would be done by teleporting mages , so you would have to remove that spell. You could also have teleport needing a week to cast or transit.
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Post by mao on May 19, 2021 8:20:55 GMT -5
Carrier Pigeons could be used or even Dragon messengers, good basis of an airship or balloon game for air battles
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Post by mao on May 19, 2021 8:40:49 GMT -5
Let's not forget that there are the real world examples of runners, horses and ships if you want a mundane game, scrying would have to be done away with. Oh how about magic pools that require several hour days or weeks to use.
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Post by hengest on Jun 22, 2021 9:38:54 GMT -5
mao I missed these last couple responses. I like that bit about the magic pools. Something to think about. I think Tolkien did "crystal balls" better than anyone else ever could with the palantiri, and they're so thinly drawn. Tagging The Perilous Dreamer here. But in context it all works. Rare artifact, massively powerful strategic tool that also comes with the big risks of pride and also falling under the influence of a more powerful user of the "network." I still think PD's take on this above is brilliant.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 22, 2021 9:57:51 GMT -5
I havent posted this here yet so heres Dreamsend L2 Mage spell Dreamsend When spell is cast a 25 word message is sent in your sleep to a sleeping recipient. It is very public but there are so many that it is effectively secure. The spell contains a 1st level spell called "Dream Receive" that must be cast on the recipient(once you link to another char you need not do it again.) I seem to have missed this when it was posted. I like this send and receive by spell. I do not see it as very public, but I do see it as very secure. I also see this spell as a closely guarded secret, and therefore rare. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 22, 2021 9:59:33 GMT -5
I think that in a "normal" game that this would be done by teleporting mages , so you would have to remove that spell. You could also have teleport needing a week to cast or transit. Or you could also make teleport much more dangerous and a spell that is being developed because it is too risky. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 22, 2021 10:00:45 GMT -5
Carrier Pigeons could be used or even Dragon messengers, good basis of an airship or balloon game for air battles Carrier Pigeons should definitely be in a domain game style D&D game. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 22, 2021 10:08:43 GMT -5
Let's not forget that there are the real world examples of runners, horses and ships if you want a mundane game, scrying would have to be done away with. Oh how about magic pools that require several hour days or weeks to use. Scrying was very rarely ever used IMC. Not something my players ever pursued, which was fine with me, because if it was used a lot, I would have had to have the bad guys using it too. I preferred not to do that. I could see using any "pool" of water as a magic portal to scry with, but instead of it taking a long time, making it really debilitate the magic-user and/or making it a third level spell (i.e. defining when it can be learned) that takes 9 spell slots to cast. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jun 22, 2021 10:11:25 GMT -5
mao I missed these last couple responses. I like that bit about the magic pools. Something to think about. I think Tolkien did "crystal balls" better than anyone else ever could with the palantiri, and they're so thinly drawn. Tagging The Perilous Dreamer here. But in context it all works. Rare artifact, massively powerful strategic tool that also comes with the big risks of pride and also falling under the influence of a more powerful user of the "network." I still think PD's take on this above is brilliant. Thank you for tagging me, I seem to have missed that last few posts here too. Thank you again for the compliment, brilliant is a strong word, but good to hear.  |
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Post by hengest on Jan 10, 2022 11:44:14 GMT -5
I still think this post above should be developed. It's not my idea but I completely dig it. A kind of real power that is hidden under a mask of pretend power. Very The Last Unicorn but reimagined for empire maintenance. |
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