6 second rounds

[ripx187]

My rounds have always been 1 minute. That was always the BTB way and I framed my mind around it. I know many fine people have preferred 6 second rounds with 1 minute turns, which I always thought was bats but what do I know? Now this house rule is assumed to be core to the rules and I'm having difficulty with it. I suppose that it boils down to how I judge magic. Spell casting was always the reason for such long rounds, it took time to grab the proper amount of components, and it took time to say the magic formulas before you could release it. Often, spells were cast at the end of the round. 

One of my house rules was that magic was dying so it took longer to cast, I doubled the casting times or went up to the next rank. Scrolls were used to bypass this rule and had the casting times in the handbook, but that, at least in my head, takes longer than 6 seconds. I also dislike the shortness of the spells; it just doesn't jive with my esthetics. A spell that used to last 10 minutes now only lasts 1 minute? 

Logically, I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around it. 

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I switched to 6 second rounds at the very beginning. Also no spell components in OD&D and I always envisioned spells being cast at the release of a thought, so spells were the fastest thing in the game.

I can appreciate your consternation.

So are you saying that 5E has 6 second rounds?

[ripx187]

May 22, 2020 0:54:57 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I switched to 6 second rounds at the very beginning. Also no spell components in OD&D and I always envisioned spells being cast at the release of a thought, so spells were the fastest thing in the game.

I can appreciate your consternation.

So are you saying that 5E has 6 second rounds?

Yes. AND the rounds are ran funny. Each player has an action, some have a bonus action (which I'm used to), you also have reactions (which are new). There are also monsters who can take a special action during another persons turn. All of this in 6 seconds.

It also has other problems: Characters can move 10x their Movement rate. Loading a crossbow or a musket takes longer than 6 seconds, and I'm not sure that you could load, aim, and accurately fire a bow in 6 seconds. 

I get it. Reducing the speed to reflect 6 seconds would be wonky, and D&D has always stated that it is not a combat simulator. I don't know WHY they went to 6 seconds, but it did. I guess that 1 minute is just as unreasonable as 6 seconds. I mean, I could fix it, but why bother? 

There is another weird rule that IS easy to fix, but it states that a character on horseback can't finish their movement rate once they attack, but characters on foot can, which is completely backwards to me. To fix it, all you have to do is ignore it but I wonder if this wasn't being abused during the playtests, or if it just brought to much attention to how insanely fast everyone one is able to move during a melee.

I suppose that this thinking will disappear after time.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

May 22, 2020 12:10:30 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

May 22, 2020 0:54:57 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I switched to 6 second rounds at the very beginning. Also no spell components in OD&D and I always envisioned spells being cast at the release of a thought, so spells were the fastest thing in the game.

I can appreciate your consternation.

So are you saying that 5E has 6 second rounds?

Yes. AND the rounds are ran funny. Each player has an action, some have a bonus action (which I'm used to), you also have reactions (which are new). There are also monsters who can take a special action during another persons turn. All of this in 6 seconds.

It also has other problems: Characters can move 10x their Movement rate. Loading a crossbow or a musket takes longer than 6 seconds, and I'm not sure that you could load, aim, and accurately fire a bow in 6 seconds. 

I get it. Reducing the speed to reflect 6 seconds would be wonky, and D&D has always stated that it is not a combat simulator. I don't know WHY they went to 6 seconds, but it did. I guess that 1 minute is just as unreasonable as 6 seconds. I mean, I could fix it, but why bother? 

There is another weird rule that IS easy to fix, but it states that a character on horseback can't finish their movement rate once they attack, but characters on foot can, which is completely backwards to me. To fix it, all you have to do is ignore it but I wonder if this wasn't being abused during the playtests, or if it just brought to much attention to how insanely fast everyone one is able to move during a melee.

I suppose that this thinking will disappear after time.

10X their movement rate! Wow! And some other stuff is as you say really wonky.

[eldrad]

No they cannot move X10 their movement rate in 5E in any normal combat.

[ripx187]

You are probably right. The math is still wonky. A human in 5e has a speed of 30, in 2e it is 120. In 1 min. the 5e character would walk 300' to 2e 120' 

[solfe]

I typically run 1 minute combat rounds, but do like 6 second rounds. When my players are around, I tend not mention which I am using because it really doesn't matter if you're just slinging a sword and rolling dice.

I do have a "mini-game" set of rules if the players invoke something that actually breaks the general D&D movement rules, such as sprinting across a battle zone. Rounds are 1 minute broken into 6 second segments, everyone not engaged in combat is moving at 12" per segment. They can't swing a weapon while moving this fast, nor can they see past obstacles so they could sprint into an ambush. Turning costs forward movement. A 45 degree turn costs 1" of forward movement while a 90 degree turn costs 3". Characters can use objects in the environment to attack people chasing them, let go of tree limbs, throw a basket, topple boxes in the path of someone behind them, etc. All attacks are vs. AC 10. They don't do damage, they slow the person down based on 1d6 die roll.

The only way to actually get hit by a weapon is to have someone with a bow firing at you or running right past someone with a sword ready. Those people are operating on 1 minute rounds with 6 second segments, so weapons are far less deadly than they could be. An archer could get off two shots in a round, but because their shots come first and last, they tend to miss their chance with one or the other shot because the runner stepped behind a barrier. I've never had someone hasted get involved with this, but that would be super fun.

It helps new players learn combat without subjecting them to death while also allowing a novel way to play a game. It's not normal by any means.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

May 22, 2020 12:10:30 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

... I'm not sure that you could load, aim, and accurately fire a bow in 6 seconds.

I missed this part of the comment, a good bowman could fire as many as five arrows in 6 second, I allow two at 5th level or above.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jul 6, 2021 9:59:10 GMT -5 solfe said:

I typically run 1 minute combat rounds, but do like 6 second rounds. When my players are around, I tend not mention which I am using because it really doesn't matter if you're just slinging a sword and rolling dice.

I do have a "mini-game" set of rules if the players invoke something that actually breaks the general D&D movement rules, such as sprinting across a battle zone. Rounds are 1 minute broken into 6 second segments, everyone not engaged in combat is moving at 12" per segment. They can't swing a weapon while moving this fast, nor can they see past obstacles so they could sprint into an ambush. Turning costs forward movement. A 45 degree turn costs 1" of forward movement while a 90 degree turn costs 3". Characters can use objects in the environment to attack people chasing them, let go of tree limbs, throw a basket, topple boxes in the path of someone behind them, etc. All attacks are vs. AC 10. They don't do damage, they slow the person down based on 1d6 die roll.

The only way to actually get hit by a weapon is to have someone with a bow firing at you or running right past someone with a sword ready. Those people are operating on 1 minute rounds with 6 second segments, so weapons are far less deadly than they could be. An archer could get off two shots in a round, but because their shots come first and last, they tend to miss their chance with one or the other shot because the runner stepped behind a barrier. I've never had someone hasted get involved with this, but that would be super fun.

It helps new players learn combat without subjecting them to death while also allowing a novel way to play a game. It's not normal by any means.

Your "mini-game" is a novel approach. Yeah, D&D movement is very wonky and I have thought about reworking it. 

From an above earlier comment, 120' in one minute works out to 1.36 miles per hour. I can't force myself to walk that slow.

[solfe]

Basically, it's the limit of the table size and not exactly how fast you could run. That mini game ends up being a sprint from one end of a four, six or 8 foot table to the other. Basically, you drop the rules in 60 seconds and in just few minutes leave the player's breathless. Any more than just a few minutes, the whole thing would be less charming.

If you happen to have figures for the players, this is the point where you present them on the table as tokens. If the players have never seen them before, they'll want to inspect them. Try not to push that off too far into the future. That keeps the crazy going for a few more minutes and makes whatever you do next seem really great. Just make sure you have something sort of great to throw out next. Any flaws get eaten by the excitement. 

[multiarms]

I don't really care how long a combat round lasts in my game. If the players ask how long the round is, my stock answer is "however long it takes for your character to do whatever they're doing." If I were forced to choose between 1 minute and 6 seconds or 10 seconds, I would tend to favor 1 minute.

Note, however, that I also don't care about exact distances or movement speeds in D&D. That's just my style, but having played with many GMs over the years I have observed that accurate measuring of time and distance is rarely (if ever) accomplished in actual games at the table.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jul 7, 2021 21:55:50 GMT -5 multiarms said:

I don't really care how long a combat round lasts in my game. If the players ask how long the round is, my stock answer is "however long it takes for your character to do whatever they're doing." If I were forced to choose between 1 minute and 6 seconds or 10 seconds, I would tend to favor 1 minute.

Note, however, that I also don't care about exact distances or movement speeds in D&D. That's just my style, but having played with many GMs over the years I have observed that accurate measuring of time and distance is rarely (if ever) accomplished in actual games at the table.

I go with 6 seconds because that is how long it takes to make about 6-8 attempts to attack or parry with a sword, an axe or a mace of which one of those attempts has an chance (1d20) of doing damage for a 1st level PC. A one in 120 to 160 chance of doing damage per 6 second melee round is tolerable for a 1st level PC. If you multiply everything by 10 for a one minute melee round, it makes the number of attack attempts and parries for one melee round too unrealistic.

My objection to a one minute melee round is philosophical. For me it breaks immersion for a PC to have one chance in hundreds of sword attacks or parries to do damage.

I actually think that if you have an 8th level fighters going against one hit die creatures the 8th level fighters should run on one second melee rounds, while the one hit dice creature is on 6 second melee round. I have thought about this over the years and think this would be one way of doing it that highlights just how powerful high levels are.

I am not too concerned about high accuracy of time and distance, but I want things to be just realistic enough to not break immersion. With a one minute melee round a PC should actually be able to move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack, move, attack to semi-accurately account for what a human can actually do in one minute. I go to a 6 second melee round as a compromise. If I were writing the rules from scratch I think I might go with a 3 second melee round and PCs get two attacks with a sword or one attack with a two handed sword or two bow shots.

Of course the other thing I like to do is to run combat fast and players need to be ready when they are called on with no delay in the response and I prefer no initiative unless surprise is involved. If no surprise, then everything is simultaneous outside of special circumstances. Some monsters are super fast and almost always have initiative or if hasted, then you get initiative against a normal opponent.

[mao]

For as long as I can remember I have used 6 second rounds. Now I would let players do a lot of stuff but I always favored this way.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I look at it this way, think of when you were in heavy traffic and something happened and you had to take multiple defensive driving actions to avoid being hit. I am not particularly fast or coordinated, but even I have done multiple things and made multiple decisions in split seconds to avoid an out of control driver.

For months on the north side of 270 here in Columbus a few years ago, two drivers side by side were trying to cause accidents. For months there would be a sudden slow down and then back to normal. One day I was closer to the front when this happened and I saw two drivers side by side straddling two lanes each and then they both slammed on their breaks at the same time and brought three lanes to a complete halt. I was too far back to see their plates, but I would not have had time to get them anyway. Because when that happened I had to stop to avoid hitting the guy in front of me, at the same time I saw in the mirror that I was going to be rear ended hard and I got over to the inside wall as far as I could and the car behind me wound up beside me (and the next car to my right) and stopped an inch from the guy that was in front of me. Had there not been room and had I not made room I would have been severely injured or dead. That all took no more than one second.

So with one minute melee rounds and you can move or attack once, but not both and nothing else, that breaks immersion because real life moves way faster than that. I am not  concerned about completely simulating a real sword fight, but taking one action and then yawning for 59 seconds is too much.