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Post by hengest on Nov 3, 2019 20:16:15 GMT -5
Have you ever played or reffed a game where the players didn't understand the system and simply rolled when they were told to? Or they understood what they could glean from how the game appeared to work, but simply weren't that interested in exactly what that d20 was for?
Or something where the ref held the character sheets and the players simply had "everyday" ideas about their character? "He was the strongest person in his village, but not in the capital, not by a long shot."
Or at the other end, what's the most involved you've seen players ben in the mechanics of the system?
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Nov 4, 2019 0:39:20 GMT -5
Have you ever played or reffed a game where the players didn't understand the system and simply rolled when they were told to? Or they understood what they could glean from how the game appeared to work, but simply weren't that interested in exactly what that d20 was for? Or something where the ref held the character sheets and the players simply had "everyday" ideas about their character? "He was the strongest person in his village, but not in the capital, not by a long shot." Or at the other end, what's the most involved you've seen players be in the mechanics of the system? When I started playing and reffing for the whole four years the two of us that reffed were the only ones that ever read the rulebooks for OD&D. The other players not only did not read them, they were not interested in reading them. But they showed up and played two a week every week. Our Character sheets were the top 4 inches of a sheet of paper. We all lived in the small dorm or (later) an adjoining dorm so everyone kept their character sheet. |
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Post by ripx187 on Nov 4, 2019 15:48:09 GMT -5
Have you ever played or reffed a game where the players didn't understand the system and simply rolled when they were told to? Or they understood what they could glean from how the game appeared to work, but simply weren't that interested in exactly what that d20 was for? Or something where the ref held the character sheets and the players simply had "everyday" ideas about their character? "He was the strongest person in his village, but not in the capital, not by a long shot." Or at the other end, what's the most involved you've seen players ben in the mechanics of the system? When you first start playing, this is exactly what you are doing. I had thought about playing in the way that you describe, but as DM I've got too much paperwork to do behind the screen as it is. I put all of the players to work, keeping the calander, managing their initiative order, being a caller, taking game notes, tracking consumables. There is a lot of work being done on the player side of the table, too much for one guy to handle. I mean, it sounds fun, but how much is really earned by playing this way? My players are smart as tacks, half of them can tell you what monster is coming just by guessing what page of the Monster Manual I'm looking at. |
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Post by hengest on Nov 4, 2019 16:41:07 GMT -5
Have you ever played or reffed a game where the players didn't understand the system and simply rolled when they were told to? Or they understood what they could glean from how the game appeared to work, but simply weren't that interested in exactly what that d20 was for? Or something where the ref held the character sheets and the players simply had "everyday" ideas about their character? "He was the strongest person in his village, but not in the capital, not by a long shot." Or at the other end, what's the most involved you've seen players ben in the mechanics of the system? When you first start playing, this is exactly what you are doing. I had thought about playing in the way that you describe, but as DM I've got too much paperwork to do behind the screen as it is. I put all of the players to work, keeping the calander, managing their initiative order, being a caller, taking game notes, tracking consumables. There is a lot of work being done on the player side of the table, too much for one guy to handle. I mean, it sounds fun, but how much is really earned by playing this way? My players are smart as tacks, half of them can tell you what monster is coming just by guessing what page of the Monster Manual I'm looking at. Ha, thanks for this. I didn't really mean to suggest there was anything to be gained, but I'm a little fuzzy on how people who inhabit this board actually play. Surely not super rules-lawyer style, but then, how? That's why I asked about these two extremes. But I could have been much clearer. What you say makes perfect sense. |
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Post by ripx187 on Nov 4, 2019 16:59:24 GMT -5
When you first start playing, this is exactly what you are doing. I had thought about playing in the way that you describe, but as DM I've got too much paperwork to do behind the screen as it is. I put all of the players to work, keeping the calander, managing their initiative order, being a caller, taking game notes, tracking consumables. There is a lot of work being done on the player side of the table, too much for one guy to handle. I mean, it sounds fun, but how much is really earned by playing this way? My players are smart as tacks, half of them can tell you what monster is coming just by guessing what page of the Monster Manual I'm looking at. Ha, thanks for this. I didn't really mean to suggest there was anything to be gained, but I'm a little fuzzy on how people who inhabit this board actually play. Surely not super rules-lawyer style, but then, how? That's why I asked about these two extremes. But I could have been much clearer. What you say makes perfect sense. The beauty of the game, and this BBS, is that we all play differently. I have experimented with simpler rules, and just using the OD&D rules as is, but as a group, we enjoyed the more advanced rulesets more. I think that we are rare in this, but even still, what we like isn't as extreme as Pathfinder or 3e. I have a lot of freedom. As a DM, I prefer to make rulings than playing by-the-book. |
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Post by mao on Nov 5, 2019 6:47:49 GMT -5
If I ever get started I am going to go without any written rules
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Nov 5, 2019 13:43:33 GMT -5
hengest, I have on occasion run a game solely with dice, paper and pencil and players, without referring to anything written at all. They would tell me what they rolled and I would tell them if they hit. I didn't bother with using the combat tables even. If the players trust you to be fair, you can run it really fast that way and the game (my game which runs fast anyway) really flies at high speed then. Some will quibble about not having 100% absolute total consistency on the numbers for to hit and the like. Again if the players trust you to be fair and they do not complain even once and keep coming back, it is not an issue. I have talked to people that are just horrified by someone doing this. Again I say to them, if the ref and the players are both having fun why is it an issue? I have used 6 second melee rounds from the very beginning, because a one minute melee round for me just brutally breaks the suspension of disbelief because of the paltry number of actions that you can take in a full minute. Using the method noted above, I have run a 6 second melee round with 8 players in about 40 seconds real time per round. When you maintain that pace, the level of immersion for players and the level of urgency involved in every split second decision amps up the energy in the game to levels where the players are immersed and reacting like they are really there. When I do a chase scene and the players are being pursued, I always run it this way with the players not slowing down to discuss anything, just act and react and move. It also works when the players are the pursuers.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Nov 5, 2019 13:48:55 GMT -5
I once ran a short game for a friend while we were hiking in a park. No dice, no rules, no paper or pencil. Just our imaginations and our voices. It worked and we had a blast. If I could handpick from the people I have played with over the years, I could compile a group of at least 8-10 people that I could run a game like that with. I had one player that could have done that when she was 9 years old without skipping a beat. She was so smart that you had no choice, you had to have a fast paced game to keep her from being one or two steps ahead of you.
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Post by hengest on Nov 5, 2019 14:58:22 GMT -5
The Perilous Dreamer, that is all good information. Maybe I fear combat so much because I never saw combat like that in my life. You have mentioned that young player many times, how old is she now and did she keep gaming?
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Nov 5, 2019 20:01:09 GMT -5
The Perilous Dreamer , that is all good information. Maybe I fear combat so much because I never saw combat like that in my life. You have mentioned that young player many times, how old is she now and did she keep gaming? She came with her step father to be for IIRC about a year and a half. After the wedding he never returned a message again, even though up to that point he never missed a game. I think she would be about 18 now. she was 9 when they started coming to my game. I do not know if she kept gaming or not. All I know is that after the wedding they dropped off the face of the earth. I hope that someday she rediscovers OD&D on her own, it was a treat to have someone like her in my game, even if only for a little while. Extremely smart, quick witted and a great sense of humor, I never had a daughter but I would love to have had one like her.
Combat is fun from both sides of the table. Of course I love every part of running a game. I love creating a different personality for every NPC.
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Post by hengest on Nov 5, 2019 20:25:53 GMT -5
The Perilous Dreamer , that is all good information. Maybe I fear combat so much because I never saw combat like that in my life. You have mentioned that young player many times, how old is she now and did she keep gaming? She came with her step father to be for IIRC about a year and a half. After the wedding he never returned a message again, even though up to that point he never missed a game. I think she would be about 18 now. she was 9 when they started coming to my game. I do not know if she kept gaming or not. All I know is that after the wedding they dropped off the face of the earth. I hope that someday she rediscovers OD&D on her own, it was a treat to have someone like her in my game, even if only for a little while. Extremely smart, quick witted and a great sense of humor, I never had a daughter but I would love to have had one like her.
Combat is fun from both sides of the table. Of course I love every part of running a game. I love creating a different personality for every NPC.
I wasn't there, but I bet you a dollar it made a positive difference in her life. It's great that they came for as long as they did. |
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