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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 24, 2018 10:44:05 GMT -5
The Forgotten Realms was the first AD&D setting I owned, I love the old Gray Box edition. I remembering going to Toys R Us and finding it in the game section with my dad who bought it for me with my Birthday funds. I wish I still owned that box set but it either got lost in a move or was destroyed by my sister's stupid guinea pigs. Though I grew to dislike the changes to the setting made in the 2e period, I fell back in love with the FR in the 3.X era; as I bought nearly all the main supplements released for it. When 4e came out my love for FR pretty much died. The changes were too radical and even when 5e came out and WotC started reversing the changes made - it still wasn't a FR I wanted to play in or run as a referee.
But deep down I still love the Forgotten Realms but only the core as described in the original box set and the Kara-Tur: Eastern Realms box set. I've decided as part of a long term project to make the Forgotten Realms mine, using only the two aforementioned box sets as my starting point. The only supplemental material I'll add is from Dragon magazine articles by Ed Greenwood up to the original box set's release and any Oriental Adventure related 1e content Dragon contained.
In the end the Forgotten Realms will be combined with my take on the World of Greyhawk Folio setting to create an large mega-campaign setting combining two of my favorite TSR settings into one united whole. This project will likely be powered by B/X D&D, thus serious revisions will be made to NPCs and other mechanical elements from AD&D. The first stage of this long term project will be printing out the needed Dragon articles if warranted, as well as printing out the FR box set if possible, that said I might have to cut and paste from it since the PDFs still have the "parchment" color and might cause issues printing them out.
If anyone has wants to help me brain storm feel free to post here as I'll occasionally update this thread with any progress as it is made. What I do know is: 1) the combined Faerun/Kara-Tur mega-continent & Oerik continent will be on opposite sides of the planet. 2) That the Touv of Greyhawk will be the basis for the Chult culture in FR. I might create another smaller continent between the two other continents where the original Touv & Chultan's came from; but that is way down the road in this project. 3) the core FR pantheon is likely going to be the regional pantheon of the Cormyr, Sembia & Dale Lands, with a few noted exceptions from the core booklet itself. As with my B/X GH setting, I'll gradually expand the pantheon - most likely pulling canon deities I like from both settings, plus others from my own imagination and other TSR/WotC settings I like if needed.
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Post by fearghus on Oct 24, 2018 11:12:41 GMT -5
Hi, just wanted to jump on the band-wagon. While I dislike the magic-item bloat, 1e, 2e and 3e FR are all great. In fact I think the 3e FR Adventures book was one of the best written, plus it had a great map. Like you, 4e went so off the wall I couldn't handle it.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 24, 2018 14:01:22 GMT -5
Hi, just wanted to jump on the band-wagon. While I dislike the magic-item bloat, 1e, 2e and 3e FR are all great. In fact I think the 3e FR Adventures book was one of the best written, plus it had a great map. Like you, 4e went so off the wall I couldn't handle it. I also disliked the magic-item bloat in FR, though I didn't mind it in Eberron but it made sense there but not FR. I love the 3e FR maps & I even love the newer 5e FR city maps. I hate how WotC raised Asmodeus to be a god & how both 4e & 5e made Genasi & Tieflings into generic races. But in the end I want to get back to basics when I run FR campaigns again. @feargus do you run FR campaigns? If so, do you use the 3.x stuff and what rules do you power your campaigns? |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 24, 2018 17:25:44 GMT -5
What was the magic item bloat? You'll have to excuse me, I didn't read anything written after 2e.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 24, 2018 19:58:47 GMT -5
What was the magic item bloat? You'll have to excuse me, I didn't read anything written after 2e. Magic-item bloat came from the fact a large number of NPCs listed in the setting supplements had a magic item (if not more). Plus a lot of the supplements introduced new setting specific magic items for the various factions that were covered in the supplement. I'd like to say Greyhawk didn't have that issue but lets face facts that most of the spells & magic items were created early on for Greyhawk, that said the setting supplements I own lack the large number that gradually populated FR through five editions. |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 24, 2018 20:33:30 GMT -5
What was the magic item bloat? You'll have to excuse me, I didn't read anything written after 2e. Magic-item bloat came from the fact a large number of NPCs listed in the setting supplements had a magic item (if not more). Plus a lot of the supplements introduced new setting specific magic items for the various factions that were covered in the supplement. I'd like to say Greyhawk didn't have that issue but lets face facts that most of the spells & magic items were created early on for Greyhawk, that said the setting supplements I own lack the large number that gradually populated FR through five editions. Forgotten Realms was a very magical place, I think that somewhere it was suggested to cut out all of Greyhawk's magic items and spells, or at least the ones that were specific to that realm, which since I had never seen GH at the time, and since much of that stuff never was even mentioned in the Box Set, I had no idea what they were talking about. I'm not sure where the trend to cut global magic down came from, but I did hop on that bandwagon. Perhaps it came from my experience with Ravenloft? But I'm not sure. All of that magic and power makes it harder and harder to challange the players. Magic in Forgotten Realms (and Core AD&D) became more of a technology, or maybe it was just me? |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 25, 2018 13:27:52 GMT -5
Magic-item bloat came from the fact a large number of NPCs listed in the setting supplements had a magic item (if not more). Plus a lot of the supplements introduced new setting specific magic items for the various factions that were covered in the supplement. I'd like to say Greyhawk didn't have that issue but lets face facts that most of the spells & magic items were created early on for Greyhawk, that said the setting supplements I own lack the large number that gradually populated FR through five editions. Forgotten Realms was a very magical place, I think that somewhere it was suggested to cut out all of Greyhawk's magic items and spells, or at least the ones that were specific to that realm, which since I had never seen GH at the time, and since much of that stuff never was even mentioned in the Box Set, I had no idea what they were talking about. I'm not sure where the trend to cut global magic down came from, but I did hop on that bandwagon. Perhaps it came from my experience with Ravenloft? But I'm not sure. All of that magic and power makes it harder and harder to challange the players. Magic in Forgotten Realms (and Core AD&D) became more of a technology, or maybe it was just me? Oh it was ripx187. It was & is a very magical place but eventually the magic item bloat became tedious. When you'd buy a FR campaign sourcebook and see a new collection of magic items, plus those listed in FR themed Dragon articles it became less special to those of us who fell in love with the setting with Original Box Set. I think both @feargus & I might be allowing our biases for the Forgotten Realms show. Even we likely do not agree on what we prefer for the setting, as Feargus seems to like the changes and developments to FR except for those made in 4e. Where as I got sick of the meta-storyline and novels influencing or mirroring the changes made to the setting. In 2e TSR basically retconned much of what they initially published in 1e the previous two years (or year & a half?). They killed off gods and replaced them with others, threw in real world inspired events (the invasion of the Mongol Hordes & colonalization of Mesoamerica). It became too much, but in 3e I tried to give it another chance and actually enjoyed the books, but I was still mainly a player and was still of the mentality of anything that cut out work for a GM was good. But in the last year or two my mentality has changed, as is my view on the so-called magic bloat I was irked by in the past. Though I magic will be prominent in my campaigns, technology will be more so; as the cult of Gond will play a major part of my version of the world. |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 25, 2018 18:14:41 GMT -5
I started with the 2e box as that was all I could find that was in my price range at the time, but later I did have a friend give me their 1e box and I personally prefered the 2e one. I'm cool with the dead gods and the setting changes. Both were fun to read! I loved the idea of wild magic and dead magic areas. I also read a few of the FR novels, a couple are even worthwhile!
I am fine with Metaplots, as long as they are in the past, which I assume would happen if you bought into the FR setting right away. The setting itself killing all of the assassins is hilarious to me! But, you know I have yet to hear anybody say that Zeb Cook killed their character. Either this was ignored or nobody really played the assassin to begin with.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 25, 2018 20:54:57 GMT -5
I started with the 2e box as that was all I could find that was in my price range at the time, but later I did have a friend give me their 1e box and I personally prefered the 2e one. I'm cool with the dead gods and the setting changes. Both were fun to read! I loved the idea of wild magic and dead magic areas. I also read a few of the FR novels, a couple are even worthwhile! I am fine with Metaplots, as long as they are in the past, which I assume would happen if you bought into the FR setting right away. The setting itself killing all of the assassins is hilarious to me! But, you know I have yet to hear anybody say that Zeb Cook killed their character. Either this was ignored or nobody really played the assassin to begin with. I could care less about Zeb getting rid of the Assassins myself, but I loathed the Time of Troubles metaplot. Killing off Bhaal, Myrkul & Bane annoyed me to no end and replacing them with mortals turned gods Cyric, Kelemvor & Midnight (turned Mystra). Yeah if you are new the old meta-plots won't matter, but fans from previous editions do - at least if improperly implemented like the one with 4e. Just to be clear you'll NEVER convince me that the Time of Troubles meta-plot was good - ever. The whole wild and dead magic zones was stupid - basically anything tied to the metaplot I hate out of spite. I hated the hokey Horde metaplot and hated how they did Maztica, don't get me started on them fusing Zakhara to FR. I like it as a separate setting. ripx187, just understand you are conversing with a 1e Forgotten Realms uber fan boy. Nothing will EVER be better than the 1e Gray Box, the only thing remotely close was the Kara-Tur box set because I was a Wu Xia, Ninja & anime geek. I'll NEVER forgive TSR for creating 2e FR and I'll NEVER forgive WotC for 1) further ruining FR with 4e & 2) relaunching Oriental Adventures tied to the Legend of Five Rings setting and abandoning Kara-Tur. I only liked 3.5 because it seemed to make FR fun again but as I got older that wore off. But in the end of the day my opinion only really matters to me & your opinion (though I find it deeply heretical) is equally valid as mine. We can agree to disagree which is fine with me. I am not the badwrongfun police and if you prefer 2e FR to 1e FR that is fine with me. Unlike some people on the interwebs we can disagree civilly. |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 25, 2018 21:05:13 GMT -5
I started with the 2e box as that was all I could find that was in my price range at the time, but later I did have a friend give me their 1e box and I personally prefered the 2e one. I'm cool with the dead gods and the setting changes. Both were fun to read! I loved the idea of wild magic and dead magic areas. I also read a few of the FR novels, a couple are even worthwhile! I am fine with Metaplots, as long as they are in the past, which I assume would happen if you bought into the FR setting right away. The setting itself killing all of the assassins is hilarious to me! But, you know I have yet to hear anybody say that Zeb Cook killed their character. Either this was ignored or nobody really played the assassin to begin with. I could care less about Zeb getting rid of the Assassins myself, but I loathed the Time of Troubles metaplot. Killing off Bhaal, Myrkul & Bane annoyed me to no end and replacing them with mortals turned gods Cyric, Kelemvor & Midnight (turned Mystra). Yeah if you are new the old meta-plots won't matter, but fans from previous editions do - at least if improperly implemented like the one with 4e. Just to be clear you'll NEVER convince me that the Time of Troubles meta-plot was good - ever. The whole wild and dead magic zones was stupid - basically anything tied to the metaplot I hate out of spite. I hated the hokey Horde metaplot and hated how they did Maztica, don't get me started on them fusing Zakhara to FR. I like it as a separate setting. ripx187 , just understand you are conversing with a 1e Forgotten Realms uber fan boy. Nothing will EVER be better than the 1e Gray Box, the only thing remotely close was the Kara-Tur box set because I was a Wu Xia, Ninja & anime geek. I'll NEVER forgive TSR for creating 2e FR and I'll NEVER forgive WotC for 1) further ruining FR with 4e & 2) relaunching Oriental Adventures tied to the Legend of Five Rings setting and abandoning Kara-Tur. I only liked 3.5 because it seemed to make FR fun again but as I got older that wore off. But in the end of the day my opinion only really matters to me & your opinion (though I find it deeply heretical) is equally valid as mine. We can agree to disagree which is fine with me. I am not the badwrongfun police and if you prefer 2e FR to 1e FR that is fine with me. Unlike some people on the interwebs we can disagree civilly. But, what if I want to agree with you? I liked some of the principles and the way that information was organized over the actual material itself. D&D has always been and forever will be served up a la cart by me. I don't care what boxed setting that we are talking about, the first is ALWAYS the best one. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 25, 2018 21:57:13 GMT -5
LOL agree away, I'll gladly accept such agreement. First is always best.
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Post by Harry Wolf on Oct 28, 2018 19:38:21 GMT -5
I've never looked at Forgotten Realms, just forgot to do it. So I am interested in following this thread and see what you do with it.
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Oct 29, 2018 0:02:07 GMT -5
I've never looked at Forgotten Realms, just forgot to do it. So I am interested in following this thread and see what you do with it. So you forgot Forgotten Realms? Seems correct. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 29, 2018 0:19:31 GMT -5
I've never looked at Forgotten Realms, just forgot to do it. So I am interested in following this thread and see what you do with it. The Forgotten Realms was a pivotal influence on me as a teen. Once I get my doc compiled and printed out to study, I'll be able to get to work on this project. I wish WotC would allow a POD version of the 1e FR Gray Box set PDF. That said, I do have some ideas for it. I am reading Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, which has some historical background of the pre-published FR notes Ed sent TSR in 86. I also wish WotC would publish a series of FR books discussing the old notes in detail, with reproductions of the packaged notes Ed sent them. I'll be mining it for gems to use like the maps published in it. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 29, 2018 12:44:37 GMT -5
BTW I've created a 1e oriented Forgotten Realms MeWe group found here. It is aimed at fans of 1e Forgotten Realms and pre-2e AD&D rules for use with FR. |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 29, 2018 16:02:45 GMT -5
I've never looked at Forgotten Realms, just forgot to do it. So I am interested in following this thread and see what you do with it. The Forgotten Realms was a pivotal influence on me as a teen. Once I get my doc compiled and printed out to study, I'll be able to get to work on this project. I wish WotC would allow a POD version of the 1e FR Gray Box set PDF. That said, I do have some ideas for it. I am reading Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, which has some historical background of the pre-published FR notes Ed sent TSR in 86. I also wish WotC would publish a series of FR books discussing the old notes in detail, with reproductions of the packaged notes Ed sent them. I'll be mining it for gems to use like the maps published in it. THis sounds really good! I had not heard of this before. Sounds like a good lead, Thank You! |
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Post by El Borak on Oct 29, 2018 16:14:44 GMT -5
BTW I've created a 1e oriented Forgotten Realms MeWe group found here. It is aimed at fans of 1e Forgotten Realms and pre-2e AD&D rules for use with FR. OK, we will help invite people to it. I'll email TPD also. Check your pms |
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Post by ripx187 on Oct 29, 2018 18:26:41 GMT -5
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Post by El Borak on Oct 31, 2018 16:31:05 GMT -5
Wow the dead tree version is really pricey. |
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Post by fearghus on Oct 31, 2018 18:51:19 GMT -5
That is one of two 4th ed books I own. The other being the DMG. I concur with the writeup, the 4th ed FR book stays away from mechanics and sticks to writing about the setting. I really enjoyed reading it. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Oct 31, 2018 21:09:20 GMT -5
That is one of two 4th ed books I own. The other being the DMG. I concur with the writeup, the 4th ed FR book stays away from mechanics and sticks to writing about the setting. I really enjoyed reading it. It wasn't 4e exactly, it was more just a fluff book, probably meant to spur interest in the setting by letting Ed really space to things in his own style. The actual 4e Books were boring by comparison. It also gives insight into what Ed includes into his home game and the pre-published setting. Though much of it is unusable for my needs, the maps and reproductions of pages from Ed's packages sent to TSR give you an alternate view on where the Forgotten Realms could've gone if they hewed closer to his notes. I like how Ed suggested a Chinese/Far Eastern flavor for Thay, which they ignored and moved the "South" from below the Shaar to the South Eastern Inner sea lands instead. That also Ed suggested the South & Calimshan could be an Arabic/Arabian Nights type lands but TSR went with Pseudo-Egyptian & Pseudo-Babylonian instead in their "South". His notes will definitely inform my take on the Forgotten Realms. |
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Post by Warrior Twin Two on Nov 16, 2018 16:39:26 GMT -5
The setting itself killing all of the assassins is hilarious to me! But, you know I have yet to hear anybody say that Zeb Cook killed their character. Either this was ignored or nobody really played the assassin to begin with. How did the setting kill all the assassins? |
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Post by ripx187 on Nov 16, 2018 17:18:00 GMT -5
The setting itself killing all of the assassins is hilarious to me! But, you know I have yet to hear anybody say that Zeb Cook killed their character. Either this was ignored or nobody really played the assassin to begin with. How did the setting kill all the assassins? TSR either didn't know how to transition to a 2nd Edition or that was part of the marketing gimmick, but they made the world of Forgotten Realms conform to the rules. A new Box Set was written and published that censored what made MOM mad, and MOM didn't like their babies practicing to be assassins so it hit the chopping block right away. To make all of this make sense, TSR created a huge worldwide event called The Time Of Trouble, a three-part novel was written that put the gods in their place, even killing a few. So some badguy decided to sacrifice the God of Assassins, and in so doing ALL of his followers died as well (including PCs). The Second Edition Box Set assumes that all of this happened, and made it core. This was also addressed in Dragon Magazine, where the DM was given instructions on how to convert dusty old-fashion and obsolete unfun 1e characters and update them to the shiny exciting and vibrant ones that follow 2e standards, converting many 1e classes to weaker 2e versions and telling us that our Assassins were dead, but Dave Cook gives those players permission to roll up new characters of the appropriate level. A big deciding factor in creating the second edition of AD&D was to appease the angry people who blamed D&D on all the world's woes instead of on Alice Cooper, who was clearly guilty of this charge. I still like 2e because it is better indexed and the books were tougher, you can still do what you want. I have used both versions of AD&D together for years with no trouble, it is the same game. |
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Post by Warrior Twin Two on Nov 16, 2018 17:45:55 GMT -5
How did the setting kill all the assassins? TSR either didn't know how to transition to a 2nd Edition or that was part of the marketing gimmick, but they made the world of Forgotten Realms conform to the rules. A new Box Set was written and published that censored what made MOM mad, and MOM didn't like their babies practicing to be assassins so it hit the chopping block right away. To make all of this make sense, TSR created a huge worldwide event called The Time Of Trouble, a three-part novel was written that put the gods in their place, even killing a few. So some badguy decided to sacrifice the God of Assassins, and in so doing ALL of his followers died as well (including PCs). The Second Edition Box Set assumes that all of this happened, and made it core. This was also addressed in Dragon Magazine, where the DM was given instructions on how to convert dusty old-fashion and obsolete unfun 1e characters and update them to the shiny exciting and vibrant ones that follow 2e standards, converting many 1e classes to weaker 2e versions and telling us that our Assassins were dead, but Dave Cook gives those players permission to roll up new characters of the appropriate level. A big deciding factor in creating the second edition of AD&D was to appease the angry people who blamed D&D on all the world's woes instead of on Alice Cooper, who was clearly guilty of this charge. I still like 2e because it is better indexed and the books were tougher, you can still do what you want. I have used both versions of AD&D together for years with no trouble, it is the same game. That is some really silly Shoot! |
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