OD&D/CD&D and Greyhawk

[Mr Darke]

You guys are seeing the mess the board made of that post?

[bestialwarlust]

Nov 4, 2018 13:45:04 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

You guys are seeing the mess the board made of that post?

Yes I do....it seems..... Gonzo  *rimshot*

Thank you I'll be here all week don't forget to your waiter on the way out.

[randyb]

Nov 4, 2018 13:45:04 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

You guys are seeing the mess the board made of that post?

Yep.

[Admin Pete]

Nov 4, 2018 13:45:04 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

You guys are seeing the mess the board made of that post?

I fixed it. When I catch one and have time I will report it to proboards. They are not easy to fix either.

[mormonyoyoman]

My gonzo game was never more gonzo than my life.

[Mr Darke]

I'll ask this here since I am looking at combining ideas from my world to my version of Greyhawk, and I see no need for a new thread here. 

So, given the way demons and devils in (A)D&D (Dante), certain other monsters and the nature of clerics and paladins; what would be the impact of making the world monotheistic? Using real world examples there are analogs to Christianity, Judaism and Islam already and the medieval nature of the setting lends to the idea some. The Great Kingdom in later editions are basically a split Rome and in TOEE you have what is tension between Christian and Pagan faiths. 

Personally, I see it as workable but I was wanting opinions on the matter. 

[mao]

Nov 29, 2018 17:14:55 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

I'll ask this here since I am looking at combining ideas from my world to my version of Greyhawk, and I see no need for a new thread here. 

So, given the way demons and devils in (A)D&D (Dante), certain other monsters and the nature of clerics and paladins; what would be the impact of making the world monotheistic? Using real world examples there are analogs to Christianity, Judaism and Islam already and the medieval nature of the setting lends to the idea some. The Great Kingdom in later editions are basically a split Rome and in TOEE you have what is tension between Christian and Pagan faiths. 

Personally, I see it as workable but I was wanting opinions on the matter. 

The example of early Christianity has competing factions that killed each other off as well as Catholic/Protestant. But personally I find it too restricting

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Nov 29, 2018 17:14:55 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

I'll ask this here since I am looking at combining ideas from my world to my version of Greyhawk, and I see no need for a new thread here. 

So, given the way demons and devils in (A)D&D (Dante), certain other monsters and the nature of clerics and paladins; what would be the impact of making the world monotheistic? Using real world examples there are analogs to Christianity, Judaism and Islam already and the medieval nature of the setting lends to the idea some. The Great Kingdom in later editions are basically a split Rome and in TOEE you have what is tension between Christian and Pagan faiths. 

Personally, I see it as workable but I was wanting opinions on the matter. 

In the 'World of Greyhawk' Folio there are no mentions of deities, the initial deities were not introduced into GH officially until the Adventure modules, the Dragon Magazine articles & then codified in the 83 GH Box Set.  So if you use the GH Folio as your base you are aces. But even then it is up to you, you can just ignore the GH pantheons in any case...tis your version of the world and the only Canon you need to worry about is your own Mr Darke.

[simrion]

So hos goes the OD&D/CD&D effort? Personally I don't see significant issue other than the lack of background for the Greyhawk campaign. I wAs always disappointed that there wasn't more campaign details in the GH supplement for OD&D but I seem to recall in some Gygax Q&A or interviews Gary was always hesitant to share details. His intent was each game ref decide for themselves what their campaign should be.

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Dec 1, 2018 7:03:14 GMT -5 simrion said:

So hos goes the OD&D/CD&D effort? Personally I don't see significant issue other than the lack of background for the Greyhawk campaign. I wAs always disappointed that there wasn't more campaign details in the GH supplement for OD&D but I seem to recall in some Gygax Q&A or interviews Gary was always hesitant to share details. His intent was each game ref decide for themselves what their campaign should be.

Stalled if not failed. Unless someone culls the various Q&As & Rob's DVD for nuggets of info to share I don't see it going anywhere, which is sad I'd I'd love to know how Greyhawk evolved as a OD&D setting prior to its publication as a AD&D setting.

[Mr Darke]

I will echo the stalled sentiment. Unless someone compiled the various information on the evolution and finds some hidden treasure trove of notes there's little left to do. I think that one error I had is assuming that Gary and others were like Greenwood and had kept a large set of notes out there that are yet undiscovered. It seems like they worked more on mental notes and did not develop ideas beyond what was needed. You can't blame them, who knew this would be as big as it is now?

For me I am going to use some of the material and decide on whether to build my own Greyhawk, on Greyhawk as published or use some of the ideas for my own setting. I will admit that I had hoped there would be more out there to be found. Maybe in time there will be.

[Mr Darke]

After a year I have decided to just drop the idea indefinitely. There are many reasons but mainly they have to do with not having any clear picture of the setting. What we have concerning pre-publication and Gygax era Greyhawk is, as I understand it, as follows: 

1) The original Ur setting that included Gygax's, Arneson's and Kuntz's work that later became blended and sometimes hard to tell what was what. Not a bad thing but extracting the work of one author is hard. (also there are things like the Lendore Isles, Aquaria and others that muddles the waters)

2) Published Greyhawk that was a revised form with AD&D in mind. Even Gygax's players are said to have been more fond of this map and version over the original and we do not know how many revisions it saw before this point. 

3) Quag Keep Greyhawk: A strange precursor that is interesting but has marked differences. I am not sure how much input Gygax had here. 

4) Gord Greyhawk: Especially after the Gygax split from TSR this one had to vary and ended up being destroyed in the end. 

So you have at least 4 versions of the setting during that era. Gygax's later work was tagently connected and existed under coded names with other revisions. 

I have finally conceded the point that we more than likely will never know what the original was. Perhaps it was always evolving and it only became fixed at the folio. 


I have also been eyeing Bat in the Attic's rerelease of the Wilderlands as it was made with OD&D and similar in mind and has a great connection to those systems. For my own setting work, the inexpensiveness of the P.O.D. version I am thinking this would be a welcome and refreshing break from the frustration that this whole bit of research has given me. 

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Yeah, you have to pick a time period and stick with that otherwise there is too much variation to try to make sense of it.

OK, welll let us know what you do, a refreshing break would be a good thing.

[Mr Darke]

The only real plan I have is that as far as my personal campaign goes I am going to pick a few hexes on the Greyhawk map to place the Karstlands in just as if Gary sectioned me off the area for my campaign. If I stick mainly with the Folio*, Boxed Set and a few other tidbits I think I can extract a workable OD&D version of Greyhawk out of the existing text. I am going to try to get my blog up and going while I am off work for Christmas and post most of that work over there. 

*Which is being sold by P.O.D. Here

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Dec 14, 2019 16:11:08 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

The only real plan I have is that as far as my personal campaign goes I am going to pick a few hexes on the Greyhawk map to place the Karstlands in just as if Gary sectioned me off the area for my campaign. If I stick mainly with the Folio*, Boxed Set and a few other tidbits I think I can extract a workable OD&D version of Greyhawk out of the existing text. I am going to try to get my blog up and going while I am off work for Christmas and post most of that work over there. 

*Which is being sold by P.O.D. Here

Bringing back your Grimmhaus blog or a new blog altogether?

[Mr Darke]

Dec 16, 2019 18:54:10 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Dec 14, 2019 16:11:08 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

The only real plan I have is that as far as my personal campaign goes I am going to pick a few hexes on the Greyhawk map to place the Karstlands in just as if Gary sectioned me off the area for my campaign. If I stick mainly with the Folio*, Boxed Set and a few other tidbits I think I can extract a workable OD&D version of Greyhawk out of the existing text. I am going to try to get my blog up and going while I am off work for Christmas and post most of that work over there. 

*Which is being sold by P.O.D. Here

Bringing back your Grimmhaus blog or a new blog altogether?

 
I fear the Grimmhaus name as my old Julian Grimm handle has run its course; there's quite a bit of baggage for the Grimm 'brand' that I want to get away from. I am kicking a few names around and also the overall theme. I don't want to do just D&D and RPGs but cover board and card games I play as well as some retrogaming ( Video and Table Top) content. I may have to split them up as I feel the topics may be too broad. Maybe the table top stuff on one and the video games on the other. Either way there will be a retro focus on both of them. I will have time later tonight or tomorrow to hash this out more. 

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sounds like a plan!