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Post by The Bloody Nine on Aug 23, 2018 14:17:32 GMT -5
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Post by The Bloody Nine on Aug 23, 2018 14:18:42 GMT -5
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Post by The Bloody Nine on Aug 23, 2018 14:21:14 GMT -5
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Post by mao on Aug 23, 2018 16:42:42 GMT -5
....death before I give up anything Vancian.......
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 23, 2018 18:39:42 GMT -5
Very intriguing, thanks for the tip. I hate how the clerical magic works, one of the big reasons why I went back to OD&D was so I can keep the basic spells and hopefully find a system that I like better. It is worth an Exalt from me. What are your thoughts on it, Bloody? |
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Post by Bartholmew Quarrels on Aug 23, 2018 21:03:07 GMT -5
....death before I give up anything Vancian....... It doesn't make a difference to you that we are talking about clerics? |
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Post by Bartholmew Quarrels on Aug 23, 2018 21:04:01 GMT -5
Very intriguing, thanks for the tip. I hate how the clerical magic works, one of the big reasons why I went back to OD&D was so I can keep the basic spells and hopefully find a system that I like better. It is worth an Exalt from me. What are your thoughts on it, Bloody? I like the idea and you are using a mechanic already present in the game. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 24, 2018 0:11:28 GMT -5
....death before I give up anything Vancian....... It doesn't make a difference to you that we are talking about clerics? Mao has a Vancian Magic fixation (not a bad thing, it is just his thing). Where as I have zero issue anymore with Vancian magic in context to magic-users I can see using the alternate Clerical magic system here or a variation of it. |
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Post by mao on Aug 24, 2018 4:25:19 GMT -5
....death before I give up anything Vancian....... It doesn't make a difference to you that we are talking about clerics? Nope |
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Post by El Borak on Aug 24, 2018 8:46:28 GMT -5
It doesn't make a difference to you that we are talking about clerics? Mao has a Vancian Magic fixation (not a bad thing, it is just his thing). Where as I have zero issue anymore with Vancian magic in context to magic-users I can see using the alternate Clerical magic system here or a variation of it. Yeah, it looks like a great idea and I can see using it for certain spells against higher levels. |
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Post by mao on Aug 24, 2018 9:44:20 GMT -5
Mao has a Vancian Magic fixation (not a bad thing, it is just his thing). Where as I have zero issue anymore with Vancian magic in context to magic-users I can see using the alternate Clerical magic system here or a variation of it. Yeah, it looks like a great idea and I can see using it for certain spells against higher levels. mao TOTALLY has a fixation on Vancian magic  edit, actually I have some pretty cool magnifications of it I need to post someday |
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Post by El Borak on Aug 24, 2018 9:48:13 GMT -5
Yeah, it looks like a great idea and I can see using it for certain spells against higher levels. mao TOTALLY has a fixation on Vancian magic edit, actually I have some pretty cool magnifications of it I need to post someday Life is short, eat your dessert first. |
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Post by mao on Aug 24, 2018 9:50:42 GMT -5
mao TOTALLY has a fixation on Vancian magic edit, actually I have some pretty cool magnifications of it I need to post someday Life is short, eat your dessert first. You are giving YOYO a run for his money this morning big big LOLs |
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Post by El Borak on Aug 24, 2018 9:54:15 GMT -5
Running after money is always a mistake, if even you catch it you will still end up broke(broken).
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Post by mao on Aug 24, 2018 9:55:38 GMT -5
Running after money is always a mistake, if even you catch it you will still end up broke(broken). Ok, now your trying too hard(we gotta stop before we derail another thread, this is me stopping!) |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 24, 2018 12:44:26 GMT -5
These blog posts have me wanting to go back to explore the idea of the default setting inferred by the OD&D rules but put it through the prism of my imagination. I'll reread the 11 page OD&D Setting PDF I have to compare its authors view on it. Thanks The Bloody Nine for posting those blog links, they are a wondrous resource and inspiration; a exalt to you. |
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Post by El Borak on Aug 24, 2018 19:00:07 GMT -5
These blog posts have me wanting to go back to explore the idea of the default setting inferred by the OD&D rules but put it through the prism of my imagination. I'll reread the 11 page OD&D Setting PDF I have to compare its authors view on it. Thanks The Bloody Nine for posting those blog links, they are a wondrous resource and inspiration; a exalt to you. A well deserved exalt! |
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Post by Crimhthan The Great on Aug 25, 2018 9:41:58 GMT -5
The blogger is correct, the religion of the Cleric is clear, if not explicitly named. I have seen people try to de-Christianize the Cleric and remove the religious symbols from the game and say they don't affect vampires because the vampires were of different religions(which is mythologically ridiculous). All this does is eliminate any reason to have a cleric. The game (OD&D) by design has Clerics (Law)(implied Christianity) and anti-Clerics (Chaos) (all other religions). A lot of people have a problem with that because they don't believe in good and evil (in the real world). That is why virtually all rpg forums are anti-Christian and this forum is not which is one of many things that make us unique.
One thing that is an interesting side note is that as TSR removed all the devils & demons from AD&D to appease the fanatical fake Christians of the Satanic Panic Cult they also undercut the whole moral foundation of the Cleric Class. The original Cleric is NOT a heal bot and playing them that way misses the whole point of having the class in the first place.
As a side note, while I love Paladins as I have said before I base them off of Solomon Kane from REH.
Cleric IMC heal by laying on hands and it is not a spell that can be cast into melee which is what I have heard some people allow.
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Post by George Smith on Aug 27, 2018 13:29:16 GMT -5
I never thought of basing a Paladin on Solomon Kane, but that does make a lot of sense and it would explain the restrictions and strictures on the character too.
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Post by randyb on Aug 27, 2018 15:59:50 GMT -5
Three examples of a paladin:
Solomon Kane
Holger Carlsen (Three Hearts and Three Lions)
Paksenarrion (Deed of Paksennarion) - OK, this one is kinda cheating, because the character was based on the D&D paladin. But what a character!
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Post by El Borak on Aug 27, 2018 22:54:42 GMT -5
Three examples of a paladin: Solomon Kane Holger Carlsen (Three Hearts and Three Lions) Paksenarrion (Deed of Paksennarion) - OK, this one is kinda cheating, because the character was based on the D&D paladin. But what a character! Paksenarrion is awesome and I love the writing and the stories. I also like all the military services and the campaigns they are on and contracts they have. Just great world building and character building. Not just one or the other, but both. |
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Post by mao on Aug 28, 2018 10:51:20 GMT -5
The blogger is correct, the religion of the Cleric is clear, if not explicitly named. I have seen people try to de-Christianize the Cleric and remove the religious symbols from the game and say they don't affect vampires because the vampires were of different religions(which is mythologically ridiculous). All this does is eliminate any reason to have a cleric. The game (OD&D) by design has Clerics (Law)(implied Christianity) and anti-Clerics (Chaos) (all other religions). A lot of people have a problem with that because they don't believe in good and evil (in the real world). That is why virtually all rpg forums are anti-Christian and this forum is not which is one of many things that make us unique. One thing that is an interesting side note is that as TSR removed all the devils & demons from AD&D to appease the fanatical fake Christians of the Satanic Panic Cult they also undercut the whole moral foundation of the Cleric Class. The original Cleric is NOT a heal bot and playing them that way misses the whole point of having the class in the first place. As a side note, while I love Paladins as I have said before I base them off of Solomon Kane from REH. Cleric IMC heal by laying on hands and it is not a spell that can be cast into melee which is what I have heard some people allow. I agree that the cleric was Christian, I however have never used them this way, The idea of praying to God in game to act in the game is not a good thing. YMMV |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Aug 28, 2018 12:51:57 GMT -5
I had a cleric who was Fribeeterian. He taught that when you died, your spirit went on the roof and you can't get it down.
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Post by mao on Aug 28, 2018 12:56:33 GMT -5
I had a cleric who was Fribeeterian. He taught that when you died, your spirit went on the roof and you can't get it down. groan |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 28, 2018 20:21:00 GMT -5
The blogger is correct, the religion of the Cleric is clear, if not explicitly named. I have seen people try to de-Christianize the Cleric and remove the religious symbols from the game and say they don't affect vampires because the vampires were of different religions(which is mythologically ridiculous). All this does is eliminate any reason to have a cleric. The game (OD&D) by design has Clerics (Law)(implied Christianity) and anti-Clerics (Chaos) (all other religions). A lot of people have a problem with that because they don't believe in good and evil (in the real world). That is why virtually all rpg forums are anti-Christian and this forum is not which is one of many things that make us unique. One thing that is an interesting side note is that as TSR removed all the devils & demons from AD&D to appease the fanatical fake Christians of the Satanic Panic Cult they also undercut the whole moral foundation of the Cleric Class. The original Cleric is NOT a heal bot and playing them that way misses the whole point of having the class in the first place. As a side note, while I love Paladins as I have said before I base them off of Solomon Kane from REH. Cleric IMC heal by laying on hands and it is not a spell that can be cast into melee which is what I have heard some people allow. I don't think that I have ever played that way for any fantasy setting. Paganism is kind of the point of world-building isn't it? I mean there is a difference between historical gaming and fantasy. Exploring and creating plausable but fantastic religions is fun! Perhaps this is why I don't get along with the cleric class as written, I hate any implied setting forceing the game to act a way that it doesn't have to. There does need to be a class between Fighting man and Magic user, a defensive magic empowered warrior of the faith is perfect. I have seen very few people actually PLAY a cleric which has always kind of bummed me out. |
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Post by Harry Wolf on Aug 28, 2018 22:55:09 GMT -5
The blogger is correct, the religion of the Cleric is clear, if not explicitly named. I have seen people try to de-Christianize the Cleric and remove the religious symbols from the game and say they don't affect vampires because the vampires were of different religions(which is mythologically ridiculous). All this does is eliminate any reason to have a cleric. The game (OD&D) by design has Clerics (Law)(implied Christianity) and anti-Clerics (Chaos) (all other religions). A lot of people have a problem with that because they don't believe in good and evil (in the real world). That is why virtually all rpg forums are anti-Christian and this forum is not which is one of many things that make us unique. One thing that is an interesting side note is that as TSR removed all the devils & demons from AD&D to appease the fanatical fake Christians of the Satanic Panic Cult they also undercut the whole moral foundation of the Cleric Class. The original Cleric is NOT a heal bot and playing them that way misses the whole point of having the class in the first place. As a side note, while I love Paladins as I have said before I base them off of Solomon Kane from REH. Cleric IMC heal by laying on hands and it is not a spell that can be cast into melee which is what I have heard some people allow. I agree that the cleric was Christian, I however have never used them this way, The idea of praying to God in game to act in the game is not a good thing. YMMV Where does he even imply such a thing? Why would anyone do that? |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 28, 2018 23:34:04 GMT -5
I was glad to be rid of the whole named devils and demons thing; I'm too superstitious for that! I have no beef with creating a fictitious plane of hell perpetually at war. I can work with that!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 29, 2018 1:14:52 GMT -5
I was glad to be rid of the whole named devils and demons thing; I'm too superstitious for that! I have no beef with creating a fictitious plane of hell perpetually at war. I can work with that! I never cared for the using Goetia "demons" in fantasy RPGs, I don't care about Succubi or incubi but not the Goetia ones in my mind it ties D&D the Occult. Much like how I don't like using real world pantheons, create your own. I hate the fact that Paizo & WotC brought back Goetia "demons" and raised Asmodious to god status. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 29, 2018 1:43:33 GMT -5
The blogger is correct, the religion of the Cleric is clear, if not explicitly named. I have seen people try to de-Christianize the Cleric and remove the religious symbols from the game and say they don't affect vampires because the vampires were of different religions(which is mythologically ridiculous). All this does is eliminate any reason to have a cleric. The game (OD&D) by design has Clerics (Law)(implied Christianity) and anti-Clerics (Chaos) (all other religions). A lot of people have a problem with that because they don't believe in good and evil (in the real world). That is why virtually all rpg forums are anti-Christian and this forum is not which is one of many things that make us unique. One thing that is an interesting side note is that as TSR removed all the devils & demons from AD&D to appease the fanatical fake Christians of the Satanic Panic Cult they also undercut the whole moral foundation of the Cleric Class. The original Cleric is NOT a heal bot and playing them that way misses the whole point of having the class in the first place. As a side note, while I love Paladins as I have said before I base them off of Solomon Kane from REH. Cleric IMC heal by laying on hands and it is not a spell that can be cast into melee which is what I have heard some people allow. I don't think that I have ever played that way for any fantasy setting. Paganism is kind of the point of world-building isn't it? I mean there is a difference between historical gaming and fantasy. Exploring and creating plausable but fantastic religions is fun! Perhaps this is why I don't get along with the cleric class as written, I hate any implied setting forceing the game to act a way that it doesn't have to. There does need to be a class between Fighting man and Magic user, a defensive magic empowered warrior of the faith is perfect. I have seen very few people actually PLAY a cleric which has always kind of bummed me out. Though Christianity was the chief inspiration for the Cleric TSR quickly changed that with Deities & Demigods, and further cemented the change with Greyhawk. They changed the Cross to Holy symbol and added more spells, many of which were tied to their domain - this was highlighted in 2e AD&D. I'd quibble with your wording on Paganism - polytheism is better suited. It is because I simply find the word Paganism derogatory, but I am a hypocrite as I like the word Heathenism & it should by definition be seen as such as well, but since I dabbled with Germano-Nordic Heathenry when I was a bit younger so I am partial to it. But to get back on topic, I don't mind the implied setting; that said like you we shouldn't be shackled by it. One of the things I really like about RuneQuest & the Glorantha setting is the different religious cults and how they impact the setting and in turn impact the campaigns. I do want to create my own take on the implied default setting if only to run a campaign rooted in it - but have it organically change and evolve through interaction with the players. I can then add a home-brew priest class to for the foreign Cults if i decide they even exist. I can organically develop the insidious Evil Cults of Chaos. Though in my Ruins of Dorgand setting and other setting polytheism does reign supreme and this the more nuanced view on Law & Chaos is in place in them, after reading my OD&D PDFs - though vague in its wording, I can only come to the conclusion that Law was meant to equate Good/Order & Chaos equates evil, corruption & brutal anarchy of the untamed wilderness; while neutrality covered everything in between. |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 29, 2018 6:06:40 GMT -5
Mike Carr played the first cleric, and was the Bishop of the Church of the Facts of Life. He seems to had played it, not as a Christian, but more as a religion of convenience. A precedence which has paved the way for how most folks play the class.
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edit, actually I have some pretty cool magnifications of it I need to post someday
