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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 11:09:05 GMT -5
Has anyone used OD&D to run a Sci-Fi campaign? If so, what kind of tweaks did you make (if any) to help facilitate the various sci-fi tropes using OD&D? I know a lot of Old School roleplayers often used Traveller for sci-fi and though I like it I suck at math (blame poor schooling in part) so the math in Traveller makes my mind numb so I've never attempted to use Traveller as anything outside being a player. But I'd like to run a Sci-Fi game eventually but I'd prefer to use OD&D for it. I know there are a few OSR based sci-fi RPGs out there (Strange Stars, Stars Without Numbers & White Star White Box) but since they would require me buying them in print to run them effectively so I'd rather come up with my own rules light OD&D based sci-fi variant to use. So I am looking for examples of how you did it or advice on how you would tweak OD&D to use it for sci-fi campaigns even if you haven't run them yourself.
My main area of concern is space travel and spaceship combat as they would be the greatest departure from the core rules as the aerial combat rules are not written for space ships. You could mix elements of the aerial and ship based combat I guess. Though I love spaceship combat in film, tv, novels and other media I am not sure how practical it is in a RPG.
Setting is easier, unlike Dieselpunk & Cyberpunk where you have real world based setting constraints to consider but in sci-fi you can pretty much do what you want like in fantasy campaigns. Also if you are doing Swords & Planet you might not even need space ship combat and movement to deal with. But I'll not even consider developing a setting until I have a quick and easy sci-fi variant of OD&D to work with.
[Update: I've been slowly reevaluating the Traveller math & I'll likely end up running it in the future.]
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 17, 2018 16:02:49 GMT -5
 The first actual RP experience that I can recall is playing this game with my cousin. We turned it into a 2 person game, the Engineer would use the button controller and the Pilot would use the joystick. It was an awesome game at the time which put you in a spaceship simulator battling tie fighters. We'd pretend that we were actually in a starship fighting for our lives! And, since it was ATARI, we were guaranteed to lose. Space and Science Fiction used to be a bigger deal. It became glamorous in a way and cool, especially during the early days of video games. Prior to everyone owning a computer and the tech boom of the 2000's, this pop interest really wained. It used to be that you'd walk into an arcade and be transported to the future! All of the flashing lights and sounds. Pinballs bouncing off of bumpers, Space Invaders moving in for the kill, and that beautiful TRON console. These places are gone now, well, not entirely; there are a few boardwalks and midways scattered here and there, but they feel more like the olden days with walls of skee-ball and antique arm-wrestling games. You would think that OD&D would have embraced the Sci-fy craze more than they did, but perhaps they wanted to separate themselves from the video game boom? Granted, the most advanced fantasy games were dedicated to half-naked amazons that decorated pinball machines, and you had Dragon Slayer but that was just a quarter-munching monster that looked cool but wasn't very interactive. Metamorphosis Alpha is probably the most interesting early science fiction, and you have Gamma World. The booklets themselves suggest that you can easily turn OD&D into a John Carter from Mars type game. I don't know, there are so many games and not enough time to play them all! I have a copy of Star Frontier that I've never even read, and of course, you've got your Star Wars game system and the like. Space Operas are easier to simulate, or at least sell than actual Science Fiction. Starships would probably be better served as a wargame than an RPG. I don't know much about the market, though I was surprised to see the Robotech franchise was still alive! My Google+ feed is full of people that are still obsessed with miniature space crafts. Paranoia would be interesting to play, but there just isn't enough interest for that genre in my club to pursue it. I've got one player who wants me to run Star Wars, but I refuse. I'm of the opinion that Star Wars has more in common with Lord of the Rings in that both are actually very limited settings and it would be impossible to outshine the NPC stars. No thanks. |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 17, 2018 18:01:00 GMT -5
How about changing the language of the core classes?
Fighting Man: stays the same but uses sci-fy weapons.
Cleric: Medic, you'll have to go through the spell lists as magic will be replaced by technology.
Magic user: Marine, heavy artillery, again replace the magic with tech which is dangerous and limited in power, maybe the gun will overheat or require a lot of tinkering to get the thing to function? Could be a Droid as well which might be awesome!
Thief: Engineer, hacking and such. Just anything skill based.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 17, 2018 18:24:01 GMT -5
Has anyone used OD&D to run a Sci-Fi campaign? If so, what kind of tweaks did you make (if any) to help facilitate the various sci-fi tropes using OD&D? I know a lot of Old School roleplayers often used Traveller for sci-fi and though I like it I suck at math (blame poor schooling in part) so the math in Traveller makes my mind numb so I've never attempted to use Traveller as anything outside being a player. But I'd like to run a Sci-Fi game eventually but I'd prefer to use OD&D for it. I know there are a few OSR based sci-fi RPGs out there (Strange Stars, Stars Without Numbers & White Star White Box) but since they would require me buying them in print to run them effectively so I'd rather come up with my own rules light OD&D based sci-fi variant to use. So I am looking for examples of how you did it or advice on how you would tweak OD&D to use it for sci-fi campaigns even if you haven't run them yourself. My main area of concern is space travel and spaceship combat as they would be the greatest departure from the core rules as the aerial combat rules are not written for space ships. You could mix elements of the aerial and ship based combat I guess. Though I love spaceship combat in film, tv, novels and other media I am not sure how practical it is in a RPG. Setting is easier, unlike Dieselpunk & Cyberpunk where you have real world based setting constraints to consider but in sci-fi you can pretty much do what you want like in fantasy campaigns. Also if you are doing Swords & Planet you might not even need space ship combat and movement to deal with. But I'll not even consider developing a setting until I have a quick and easy sci-fi variant of OD&D to work with. IIRC Traveller uses base 16 or something of the sort. If you use 3d6-2 that gives you the same 1-16 range without the A, B, C etc of base 16. I have thought about but not run a Sci-Fi campaign. I have looked at the Traveller rules some and if I was going to do it I would work up something for the spaceships based on E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman Series. I have not looked at the other games you mention, so they might have something really good for all I know. |
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Post by El Borak on Aug 17, 2018 18:37:14 GMT -5
Metamorphosis Alpha is probably the most interesting early science fiction, and you have Gamma World. The booklets themselves suggest that you can easily turn OD&D into a John Carter from Mars type game. I don't know, there are so many games and not enough time to play them all! I have a copy of Star Frontier that I've never even read, and of course, you've got your Star Wars game system and the like. Space Operas are easier to simulate, or at least sell than actual Science Fiction. Starships would probably be better served as a wargame than an RPG. I don't know much about the market, though I was surprised to see the Robotech franchise was still alive! My Google+ feed is full of people that are still obsessed with miniature space crafts. Paranoia would be interesting to play, but there just isn't enough interest for that genre in my club to pursue it. I've got one player who wants me to run Star Wars, but I refuse. I'm of the opinion that Star Wars has more in common with Lord of the Rings in that both are actually very limited settings and it would be impossible to outshine the NPC stars. No thanks. I have never played a video game. If I were going to play MA or GW I would do it with OD&D mechanics. I think the only way to run Star Wars or Star Trek would be to set it outside the timeline that includes anything canon. I would set it after a War that found all the known powers on one side and they all barely survived the fight and won by the skin of their teeth. Things are very wild and woolly, the whole new Federation Alliance is stretched too thin to police things much and they are just trying to restore trade and rebuild infrastructure, clean up damage to inhabited planet's mourn the planet's that are no more and lick their wounds. Meanwhile with the defeat of the enemy a whole new area of space is open for exploration which is encouraged because everyone wants to know if the enemy is able to rebuild and take another bite at the apple. Everyone hopes they got knocked down far enough that the Federation will always have the upper hand when they get back on their feet. Star Wars the same thing set it in a different time. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 18:52:58 GMT -5
How about changing the language of the core classes? Fighting Man: stays the same but uses sci-fy weapons. Cleric: Medic, you'll have to go through the spell lists as magic will be replaced by technology. Magic user: Marine, heavy artillery, again replace the magic with tech which is dangerous and limited in power, maybe the gun will overheat or require a lot of tinkering to get the thing to function? Could be a Droid as well which might be awesome! Thief: Engineer, hacking and such. Just anything skill based. I like those suggestions ripx187. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 18:56:11 GMT -5
El Borak said: I've been considering that myself, though I'll likely use the RIFTS setting as it is the one I am most familiar with and have the most resources in print to mine for a campaign.
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Post by El Borak on Aug 17, 2018 18:59:13 GMT -5
El Borak said: I've been considering that myself, though I'll likely use the RIFTS setting as it is the one I am most familiar with and have the most resources in print to mine for a campaign. Mash'em all up. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Aug 17, 2018 19:00:19 GMT -5
Most likely (and I think it was mentioned in correspondence or perhaps in an interview) sword & sorcery was more marketable for rolegaming because there are innumerable villages and maidens fair (and unfair) to save, but there's only one universe or galaxy or world or generation ship. (Depending on your sf rolegame.)
The first provides for many heroes, each with an opportunity to be the star of the show. The second eventually provides for one - maybe two - people to blow up the Death Star or kill Palpatine. Or Jar-Jar, which would be sensible.
Traveller kind of sidestepped the problem by NOT focusing on space opera, but on getting enough money to survive from day to day. I've had PCs starve to death in Traveller!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 19:01:44 GMT -5
El Borak said: I've been considering that myself, though I'll likely use the RIFTS setting as it is the one I am most familiar with and have the most resources in print to mine for a campaign. Mash'em all up. The cool thing with RIFTS is that it is made to do that kind of thing & if using OD&D you have one unifying mechanic to work with. |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 17, 2018 19:51:27 GMT -5
I have never played a video game. Never? That is how I scratch my wargamer's itch. I was of age when ATARI came out, those games are still interesting to me. To this day one of my top favorite video games is "Haunted House" for the ATARI 2600. Legend of Zelda was amazing on the Nintendo, and that franchise for the most part is still just as amazing. As far as modern gaming goes, I don't like the Massive Online Games, and still prefer to play Single Player. It is pretty amazing what games are capable of these days! They are more like player controled movies than those short quarter munchers were. I love immersive games, and video games make for some excellent shooters! L.A. Noir is a great one, you step into the shoes of a Detective in 1940's Los Angeles. It's a beautiful game! Though my son says that it looks dated now. Very hard-boiled, shoot first ask questions later. It is kind of limited in what you can do, for instance, a shootout has to be a shoot out, and car chases can be extreamly frustrating because the tight allys and the CPU can't always keep up so you'll crash into nothing that turns into a bush as the badguy gets away, but what makes it different is that it has professional actors, and you get to interview and interigate suspects and witnesses. It's not very advanced, you're limited to Truth, Doubt, or Lie, but you've got to listen to what the person says and watch their body language. If you know that they are lying then you have to prove that they are with some evidence that you've collected. Kids today hate it because it is slow, but for an adult gamer like myself who doesn't have the time or patience to master a game, L.A. Noir is a trip! Another game that I really love is "Red Dead Redemption" which puts you smake dab in the middle of a spaghetti western. That game is just so much fun! If you suck at shooters as bad as I do, there is a setting on there that makes it easier to hit your targets and you can just enjoy the story. The voice acting is incredible, and the scenery is epic! I think that it is the best game of all-time. It doesn't leave you hanging, there is always lots to do, but you don't have to do everything. It has a cool system running in the background too. You can be a good guy or a bad guy, and the NPCs will treat you differently. Sometimes you make mistakes, like shooting some guy in the head, or accidentally robbing someone of their horse. You become WANTED and can either go to jail or fight the cops, but it has an honour system, the higher or lower your honour is the better the reward. For instance, Heros don't have to pay for stagecoaches and horses take to you quicker, or if you're a bad guy, everyone is terrified of you. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 20:30:31 GMT -5
I have never played a video game. Never? That is how I scratch my wargamer's itch. I was of age when ATARI came out, those games are still interesting to me. To this day one of my top favorite video games is "Haunted House" for the ATARI 2600. Legend of Zelda was amazing on the Nintendo, and that franchise for the most part is still just as amazing. As far as modern gaming goes, I don't like the Massive Online Games, and still prefer to play Single Player. It is pretty amazing what games are capable of these days! They are more like player controled movies than those short quarter munchers were. I love immersive games, and video games make for some excellent shooters! L.A. Noir is a great one, you step into the shoes of a Detective in 1940's Los Angeles. It's a beautiful game! Though my son says that it looks dated now. Very hard-boiled, shoot first ask questions later. It is kind of limited in what you can do, for instance, a shootout has to be a shoot out, and car chases can be extreamly frustrating because the tight allys and the CPU can't always keep up so you'll crash into nothing that turns into a bush as the badguy gets away, but what makes it different is that it has professional actors, and you get to interview and interigate suspects and witnesses. It's not very advanced, you're limited to Truth, Doubt, or Lie, but you've got to listen to what the person says and watch their body language. If you know that they are lying then you have to prove that they are with some evidence that you've collected. Kids today hate it because it is slow, but for an adult gamer like myself who doesn't have the time or patience to master a game, L.A. Noir is a trip! Another game that I really love is "Red Dead Redemption" which puts you smake dab in the middle of a spaghetti western. That game is just so much fun! If you suck at shooters as bad as I do, there is a setting on there that makes it easier to hit your targets and you can just enjoy the story. The voice acting is incredible, and the scenery is epic! I think that it is the best game of all-time. It doesn't leave you hanging, there is always lots to do, but you don't have to do everything. It has a cool system running in the background too. You can be a good guy or a bad guy, and the NPCs will treat you differently. Sometimes you make mistakes, like shooting some guy in the head, or accidentally robbing someone of their horse. You become WANTED and can either go to jail or fight the cops, but it has an honour system, the higher or lower your honour is the better the reward. For instance, Heros don't have to pay for stagecoaches and horses take to you quicker, or if you're a bad guy, everyone is terrified of you. My favorite video games are the original Fable, Jade Empire, Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen, Elder Scrolls Skyrim, Star Wars the Force Unleased, Baldur's Gate dark Alliance duology, Fallout Brotherhood of Steel & Call of Duty series especially 2 & 3. |
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Post by ripx187 on Aug 17, 2018 20:42:19 GMT -5
My son is really into Skyrim! He can just play and play that thing. I played it a couple of times, but once I saw the maps it made me want to shut it off and draw some, which I did.  We just got him the new Xbox one which is fun. I've got the Bioshock series for it (another of my favourite games) but typically I'm stuck playing the old 360 downstairs cause I can't get anywhere near the new one. Right now I'm playing Arkham City again; that game is a trip man! |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Aug 17, 2018 23:18:29 GMT -5
If I had an Xbox 360 I'd be playing Skyrim & Dragons Dogma near constantly. The maps in Skyrim are inspiring that is for sure.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Aug 18, 2018 0:30:58 GMT -5
Most likely (and I think it was mentioned in correspondence or perhaps in an interview) sword & sorcery was more marketable for rolegaming because there are innumerable villages and maidens fair (and unfair) to save, but there's only one universe or galaxy or world or generation ship. (Depending on your sf rolegame.) The first provides for many heroes, each with an opportunity to be the star of the show. The second eventually provides for one - maybe two - people to blow up the Death Star or kill Palpatine. Or Jar-Jar, which would be sensible. Traveller kind of sidestepped the problem by NOT focusing on space opera, but on getting enough money to survive from day to day. I've had PCs starve to death in Traveller! Jar Jar should have taken friendly fire early on.  In a SF game there is an infinite number of planets to visit, each unique. |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Aug 18, 2018 0:33:01 GMT -5
I have never played a video game. If I were going to play MA or GW I would do it with OD&D mechanics. I think the only way to run Star Wars or Star Trek would be to set it outside the timeline that includes anything canon. I would set it after a War that found all the known powers on one side and they all barely survived the fight and won by the skin of their teeth. Things are very wild and woolly, the whole new Federation Alliance is stretched too thin to police things much and they are just trying to restore trade and rebuild infrastructure, clean up damage to inhabited planet's mourn the planet's that are no more and lick their wounds. Meanwhile with the defeat of the enemy a whole new area of space is open for exploration which is encouraged because everyone wants to know if the enemy is able to rebuild and take another bite at the apple. Everyone hopes they got knocked down far enough that the Federation will always have the upper hand when they get back on their feet. Star Wars the same thing set it in a different time. I would go for this as the premise of the game. |
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In a SF game there is an infinite number of planets to visit, each unique.