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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 11:46:20 GMT -5
This post is in away an effort to gauge interest in discussions about published settings here at Murkhill. I know no gaming topic is verboten here, but I've been in support of adding subforums for established TSR settings like Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun and Ravensloft to name a few. I know JMiskimen runs or plays in games set in various published settings like Forgotten Realms & Star Wars (or at least posts about them on his blogs). We know robertsconley used his own take on the Wilderlands setting by Judge's Guild & I've run a Greyhawk based campaign before. Though I prefer to home-brew my own setting I still have a love for TSR's 1e FR Grey Box (minus the supplements), Greyhawk in general (but especially 80 GH Folio) and Eberron which I think of the WotC D&D settings seems to embrace the idea the player should be able to play any kind of race & actually gives in world rationals in both their supplements and novels. I only mention Eberron as an example of settings I like, I doubt it'd appeal to many of the members here as it falls under the Arcanepunk & Dungeonpunk sub-genres. I am just curious is what are your favorite published settings by TSR or other companies that you use now or have in the past, why you like them and what you may dislike about them and tossed out when running campaigns in them? Forgotten Realms was my first Campaign Setting, in fact I got it before I even owned the 1e AD&D rules; at that time I owned a few of the BECMI box sets. I loved its presentation and that it held so much promise. Though initially I enjoyed the FR supplements I started scratching my head after 2e FR Box Set came out, I hated the Time of Troubles meta-storyline, how they killed off some of my favorite deities and added new gods into the mix. I really disliked the Old Empires supplement as it was following a trend by TSR in creating real world cultural counterparts that they'd insert into FR. Maztika, the Hordelands and the Old empires just changed the vibe of FR. The exception to the above was Al-Qadim & Kara Tur, I loved both sub-settings a lot.In 3.5 I was able to over look these things initially as I was entranced by the art and presentation, but the more I got into it the more bloated it became and there seemed to be less room to make FR your own. I've gotten to the point that if I'd ever run FR it'd be based solely in the 1e FR Grey Box - no supplements. Greyhawk was the third TSR setting I got into and it was the only one that I didn't mind the later additions to it. Though if I'd run it today, I'd go back to the GH Folio and maybe Gary's GH deity articles; but with material from the Scarlet Brotherhood concerning the Olman & Touv cultures added to the mix. I'll not discuss Eberron beyond what I alluded to above, as though I do like it, I do so for elements of it not its whole anymore. I prefer the promise it hints at than its execution. Plus I don't want to fuss with converting it to OD&D, B/X D&D or one of their clones. If I am going to do all that work, I might as well work on home-brew settings. Lastly, I'll discuss the Known World (aka Mystara - boy do I hate that name), as it was my second setting to buy via the Gaz series. I loved this setting until they started adding overt real world based cultures into the mix and made the Orcs of Thar overtly silly. By then I was firmly in the race and class split camp fostered by 1e & 2e AD&D; so I went back to FR and started getting into Greyhawk by then. This all said I liked a lot of the Gaz series such as The Principalities of Glantri, the Republic of Darokin, Minrothad Guilds, the Kingdom of Ierendi & the Shadow Elves; but of the real world pastiches I did like the Emirates of Ylaruanm as with Al-Qadim in FR I love Arabic influenced settings. Over the last few years I've seen maps online where to artists would cobble together parts of their favorite fantasy campaign settings into a weird but wonderful hybid setting. I actually fused Oerth & Toril together sans Maztika & Kara Tur for my 5e campaign though we stuck to the flanaess area of the world when not hopping through a portal to and from Skârn. I've been contemplating going a bit more radical much like the map makers and just take my favorite parts of these settings and create my own hybrid setting if only for hoots and giggles. But if I do I'll post it elsewhere here and likely on one of my blogs. Tell us what are your favorite published settings that you've used or have drawn from heavily. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 11:51:22 GMT -5
I've always wanted to run a Dark Sun game ... it's so different from other settings that it could be a lot of fun. I tend to run games that entertain my son's interests, and sadly, Dark Sun isn't one of them.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:16:19 GMT -5
I've always wanted to run a Dark Sun game ... it's so different from other settings that it could be a lot of fun. I tend to run games that entertain my son's interests, and sadly, Dark Sun isn't one of them. I always thought it had mad potential but none of my friends were interested in giving it a go and it was around the time I started running Cyberspace as I didn't like 2e AD&D (which didn't stop me from buying 2e stuff until later in its publishing cycle). In one of the FB groups I am in one of the prolific posters posted about his desire to run a Dark Sun campaign using Lamentations of the Flame Princess. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:17:46 GMT -5
I'd rather run it with S&W Whitebox ... talk about a thinking man's game!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:24:11 GMT -5
Of the non-TSR/WotC settings I liked elements from Privateer Press'Iron Kingdoms setting, which is another Arcanepunk infused setting. I'll never run campaigns in it but I'll use it as inspiration from it. Another setting I like is Paizo's Golarion setting, though as a Ref it like FR is way too bloated, but I can see drawing elements from it or using the old pre-Pathfinder 3.0 Campaign Setting book, which would allow you more room to put your own stamp on the setting.
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 20, 2018 12:26:01 GMT -5
I think that Darksun was a correction in gameplay at the time. It is required to have not just one super-character, but two others as back-ups because the DM is out for blood; not to mention the unwritten rule to metagame as much as possible in order to survive. In Darksun, the murder hobos took over and won years before your character was rolled up, but the secret to winning the game (and it can be defeated) is to not be a murder hobo. Good luck with that. Darksun punishes good behaviour and offers rewards for negative. It's hard to play and it is even harder to DM because you have to be cruel, that is the point of the game. Most people who run the game quit because it is so hard on everyone emotionally, but if you can stomach it and beat it, those are some serious bragging rights!
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:26:51 GMT -5
I'd rather run it with S&W Whitebox ... talk about a thinking man's game! I agree S&W White Box would be a better fit for Dark Sun. My only issue with S&W is the one save thing, but I could house-rule that simply enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:29:01 GMT -5
I like the one save feature. Think of it as 'luck' and it all makes sense, cause that's really what multiple saves are all about.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:33:10 GMT -5
I was intrigued by Ravensloft, but had an issue on how best to evoke horror as a Ref; which is why I never played it or Call of Cthulhu even though I love the concepts of both. I loved the books and the evocative art in Ravensloft but my friends & I couldn't grasp how to emulate horror so just put it on the shelf to collect dust. I now wish I still had my old box set and supplements for it and Dark Sun.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 12:41:06 GMT -5
Horror really requires alot of effort and skill as a Ref to pull off successfully. You really got to be a performer in your game to make it work. Take for instance Jason Vorheez, 7-8HD monster ... No player character in the world will run from him because he has a known quality once he's in the game and PCs are always armed no matter what ...they'd try to fist fight him at the very least!
But I once scared the sh** out of a group of 3rd level characters with a single kobold by only describing his appearance as he came out of the shadows and into the torchlight. I kid you not. The unknown is always terrifying and making common things seem unknowable is an art in and of itself, I suppose.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:46:14 GMT -5
I like the one save feature. Think of it as 'luck' and it all makes sense, cause that's really what multiple saves are all about. Oh I understand the appeal, but ever since I got into OSR's and eventually OD&D and B/X D&D I just love the multiple saves. To me it is one of the things that makes a a proper clone for me and I love seeing them on those fancy Old Skool character Sheets. My old group actually liked the one save idea & were perturbed when I went with the multiple save instead. I'll not bash fans of the one or three saves mechanic, as my preference is not the end all be all way to game - what works for you in your game is what is right and proper for you. In the end of the day, we game to have fun & how we do it shouldn't matter to others. I love reading your post JMiskimen and whether we see eye to eye on how we run games doesn't matter. If I played at your game I'd embrace how you run things & the rules you use and I believe I'd have a blast doing so. |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 12:51:33 GMT -5
Horror really requires alot of effort and skill as a Ref to pull off successfully. You really got to be a performer in your game to make it work. Take for instance Jason Vorheez, 7-8HD monster ... No player character in the world will run from him because he has a known quality once he's in the game and PCs are always armed no matter what ...they'd try to fist fight him at the very least!
But I once scared the sh** out of a group of 3rd level characters with a single kobold by only describing his appearance as he came out of the shadows and into the torchlight. I kid you not. The unknown is always terrifying and making common things seem unknowable is an art in and of itself, I suppose.
I agree 100%, it takes a special Ref to do horror right. My old Rolemaster Ref was fairly decent with that kind of stuff, at least with a creepy factor not so much scaring us players as some of his NPCs could be very creepy and he'd play that up in how he interacted with us. |
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 20, 2018 12:58:11 GMT -5
I was intrigued by Ravensloft, but had an issue on how best to evoke horror as a Ref; which is why I never played it or Call of Cthulhu even though I love the concepts of both. I loved the books and the evocative art in Ravensloft but my friends & I couldn't grasp how to emulate horror so just put it on the shelf to collect dust. I now wish I still had my old box set and supplements for it and Dark Sun. The Ravenloft boxset was incredible, but as the system aged it became something that was too well defined. The funny thing about Darksun was that the soul reason for it to be written and marketed was to sell their second edition Mass Combat rules and a big line of miniatures were proposed but never really got anywhere. Darksun was a huge accomplishment for the designer, he had a crappy assignment and he managed to do something really cool with it. In regards to Ravenloft, it was more of a play-style than an actual setting. One that dictated that the ref design everything, and to keep the mechanics of the game itself a secret. Instead of telling the player that the room has 4 goblins inside, we slow it way down and describe what the characters are experiencing. The characters don't just open the door, first you describe what the player hears and smells. Make it an unstated question, "Do you really want to open that door?" If they do, then we never use the word goblin, and we never tell them that there are just 4 of them, we describe what they see, hear, smell, and feel. We don't use the goblin as written either. These guys are not 1HD walking XP, the DM alters everything, these are not D&D goblins, these are the creatures which have terrified children for centuries. It isn't hard to do, but you can really tell when a DM has mastered Ravenloft because it changes how they manage all games afterwards. |
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 20, 2018 13:31:45 GMT -5
I wanna say that Ravenloft had its own Appendix N, books to read to get the proper influence. I read horror novels, do they actually terrify me? No. What you are going for is milking suspense and doing the unexpected. Look at the work of Steven King, he takes normal everyday ideas and he adds a sinister twist to it.
DMing in the Ravenloft style dictates that we have fewer monsters, but we maximize the ones that we have. If you treat every door like the one described above you are going to try everybody's patience, but if we take our time and let the players know that SOMETHING is in the house. Something not right. We can hook them. Mystery, tension, release. It is a new school principal that requires the DM and the Players to be story-tellers.
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Post by El Borak on Jul 20, 2018 14:21:25 GMT -5
I wanna say that Ravenloft had its own Appendix N, books to read to get the proper influence. I read horror novels, do they actually terrify me? No. What you are going for is milking suspense and doing the unexpected. Look at the work of Steven King, he takes normal everyday ideas and he adds a sinister twist to it. DMing in the Ravenloft style dictates that we have fewer monsters, but we maximize the ones that we have. If you treat every door like the one described above you are going to try everybody's patience, but if we take our time and let the players know that SOMETHING is in the house. Something not right. We can hook them. Mystery, tension, release. It is a new school principal that requires the DM and the Players to be story-tellers. Sounds like old school refereeing to me, not new school. It is very similar to Tuckerizing your monsters and playing them like something other than stupid and pushovers, that is old school IMO. |
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Post by Q Man on Jul 20, 2018 15:03:48 GMT -5
There is the original Wilderlands of High Fantasy and there is Harn/Harnworld. Of course Tekumel/EPT is another.
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Post by Q Man on Jul 20, 2018 15:46:45 GMT -5
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Post by Q Man on Jul 20, 2018 15:48:49 GMT -5
Thieves World is another good one.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Jul 20, 2018 16:35:57 GMT -5
I've run Ravenloft a few times. I really never ran it as mind blasting horror like CoC. The player characters are too capable a lot of my horror influence came from the old hammer horror films so I tried to stick with that tone. The creatures and the setting were already stacked against the players so most of the horror came from that at least for us.
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jul 20, 2018 16:37:36 GMT -5
Thieves World is another good one. I love Thieves' World but I never got around to playing in it. I had the Chaosism Box set but not the more recent Green Ronin stuff. |
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Post by Q Man on Jul 21, 2018 10:32:37 GMT -5
Thieves World is another good one. I love Thieves' World but I never got around to playing in it. I had the Chaosism Box set but not the more recent Green Ronin stuff. I read the original set of books, but have never seen the RPG product only read about it. That I would love to play in. |
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Post by El Borak on Jul 21, 2018 18:03:47 GMT -5
I was always intrigued by the Birthright setting, but I did not care for the way they did the bloodlines. I've never taken the time to work out how I would want to run it.
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Post by ripx187 on Jul 21, 2018 18:14:00 GMT -5
I was always intrigued by the Birthright setting, but I did not care for the way they did the bloodlines. I've never taken the time to work out how I would want to run it. At the time I could care less about Birthright, but now I really wish that I had bought that original boxset. This was a very unique product line slipped into a predictable market. It just went over my head at the time, but it would had been a better investment than yet another Ravenloft Suppliment which I no doubt purchased instead. Nobody has yet mentioned the 2e Green books, the historical settings! I never bought those either, but I kind of wish that I had. |
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Post by El Borak on Jul 21, 2018 18:16:31 GMT -5
I was always intrigued by the Birthright setting, but I did not care for the way they did the bloodlines. I've never taken the time to work out how I would want to run it. At the time I could care less about Birthright, but now I really wish that I had bought that original boxset. This was a very unique product line slipped into a predictable market. It just went over my head at the time, but it would had been a better investment than yet another Ravenloft Suppliment which I no doubt purchased instead. Nobody has yet mentioned the 2e Green books, the historical settings! I never bought those either, but I kind of wish that I had. I forgot about those, I might have a couple, I will have to check. |
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Post by True Black Raven on Jul 21, 2018 22:26:04 GMT -5
I would vote for more on Arduin, original Wilderlands, the Hyboria of REH, the Barsoom of ERB, (in my view novels count as published setting).  |
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