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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 9, 2018 17:38:11 GMT -5
I was just following links randomly which I do sometimes and I ran across this: This is a RequestOK so at $225.00 each he wants to raise money to purchase two trademarks post dated 5/20/18 Then I see this post: Setting a ClaimWhere he says this on 5/22/18: Now whether or not Dangerous Journeys was trademarked bitd I have no idea (but a search of the US Trademark data base did not show any live trademarks for Dangerous Journeys or for Mythus for that matter. However, is it just me or would it make sense (assuming it really is available) to get the trademark before you taunt WotC and better yet just don't taunt them at all? Then in this link: Dangerous Journeys - A blog for the Dangerous Journeys system He talks about writing the game and every now and then refers to Gygax. Is it just me or is this whole thing a bit strange? |
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Post by Hexenritter Verlag on Jun 9, 2018 20:36:33 GMT -5
Who owned the IP after GDW? Gary or someone else? It does seem strange.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 9, 2018 20:44:31 GMT -5
Who owned the IP after GDW? Gary or someone else? It does seem strange. TSR owned the IP after the lawsuit was settled. They bought Gary&Company out and then promptly buried the IP. When WotC bought TSR the IP passed to them. AFAIK there were never any Trademark obtained by anyone. But none of the IP is open content. In theory you could write your own game using the not copyright-able part of the game, but you would be wise to have expert legal advice or experience with previously doing it. |
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 5:15:04 GMT -5
Who owned the IP after GDW? Gary or someone else? It does seem strange. TSR owned the IP after the lawsuit was settled. They bought Gary&Company out and then promptly buried the IP. When WotC bought TSR the IP passed to them. AFAIK there were never any Trademark obtained by anyone. But none of the IP is open content. In theory you could write your own game using the not copyright-able part of the game, but you would be wise to have expert legal advice or experience with previously doing it. It appears to have been left to expire by Hasbro just as the TSR name was let to expire (was not renewed) by Wotc/Hasbro and then claimed by the new TSR sometime back (the guys who published GYGAX magazine before Gail Gygax cut that head off). |
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 8:01:01 GMT -5
I get that, still seems out there to tell WotC that you are claiming that Trademark before you have the money in hand and make it an accomplished fact. Even if he came up with the money in two days it would take longer than that to get the paperwork done. I have a copy of all the Dangerous Journeys/Mythus rule books for the last 10 years and it is a long long project for one guy to rewrite them. Also rewriting them well enough to avoid infringement of the copyrightable parts without help is a pretty difficult thing as well. I know that you could do it(not that you would want to), but I doubt there are more than a very few others who could.
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 8:50:23 GMT -5
I get that, still seems out there to tell WotC that you are claiming that Trademark before you have the money in hand and make it an accomplished fact. Even if he came up with the money in two days it would take longer than that to get the paperwork done. I have a copy of all the Dangerous Journeys/Mythus rule books for the last 10 years and it is a long long project for one guy to rewrite them. Also rewriting them well enough to avoid infringement of the copyrightable parts without help is a pretty difficult thing as well. I know that you could do it(not that you would want to), but I doubt there are more than a very few others who could. Yep. Wotc still owns the copyright even if they would not own the Trade=name/=mark. He can simulate the mechanics, but the rest would be an end-around the copy written parts, and then there's the court rulings regarding the case on specifics TSR claimed (and were upheld) in the settlement. Seems way more effort than its worth in even the short term; and long term, so what? The RPG industry is literally AWASH in product as it stands. I consider it blown out, in fact. Only Wotc and Paizo have any major shares in it and the rest of the RPG pie (say 5%) is vied for by hundreds upon hundreds of medium to small to tiny outfits. It's this Humpty Dumpty that can't be put back together again lower bracket of the market that he'd be aiming at. |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 10, 2018 8:54:07 GMT -5
And his ability to profit from all this - or even not lose his shirt in work hours and costly materials? How many people are ready to part with more cash for yet another game just because a similar game with the same name had EGG's name attached? I could expect a revival of the Traveller's Digest before I would expect to see anything come from this.
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 9:06:29 GMT -5
And his ability to profit from all this - or even not lose his shirt in work hours and costly materials? How many people are ready to part with more cash for yet another game just because a similar game with the same name had EGG's name attached? I could expect a revival of the Traveller's Digest before I would expect to see anything come from this. Totally agree. Same thing happened with the "new" TSR (i,e,. didn't go far and now unheard from for the most part). This once agin comes down to my criticism of RPGers trying to reduplicate designs rather than originating something cutting edge (but that's another topic by itself). |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Jun 10, 2018 9:29:13 GMT -5
RPGs are no more immune to the rule of 1 innovator=1,000,000 imitators than any other product. Nothing exceeds like excess.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 11:39:58 GMT -5
RPGs are no more immune to the rule of 1 innovator=1,000,000 imitators than any other product. Nothing exceeds like excess. Have an Exalt! |
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Post by dragondaddy on Jun 10, 2018 12:48:33 GMT -5
Games are still not provided protections under existing copyright laws to the same degree as other works. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. So if he rewrites the rules, or creates a completely new derivative, reorganizing it with a different unique layout, not using the same images, but creating completely new images to illustrate how the game works, then there is nothing anyone else could do to prevent that, ...as it is not illegal. Whether he is willing and financially able to engage in an extended legal battle to uphold his rights to republish the game in a new format however remains to be seen. This also depends on the willingness of the IP owner to pursue remedies in an actual court of law. To date, if the word "game" is anywhere in a specific printed work, then the courts have historically been lenient towards the person who made a new copy of the game, and will usually side with them in a copyright dispute. In the last twenty years, game producers have gone to great lengths to trademark unique aspects of their game to provide additional Trademark intellectual property protection, which protects the visual look of the game and unique elements. WOTC is more open these days and provides a specific license along with permissions to use D&D logos and imagery online (but not in print) under the Fan Site Kit Policy.Existing Wizard's of the Coast Registered Trademarks (...over 300, many are expired) www.trademarkia.com/company-wizards-of-the-coast-llc-1383309-page-1-2The Copyright Laws of the United States (and only the United States) www.copyright.gov/title17/title17.pdfGames specifically not protected by Copyright according to the United States Copyright Office - Federal Letter 108 regarding games...
(Games are not even discussed under the Title 17 laws, except for some Video Games)
www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.pdfOther things explicitly not protected by copyright www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf
Copyright Updates
WOTC Fan Site Kit Policy
In my opinion, it would be much easier to create a new and better game, than to copy an existing game, especially one like Lejendary Adventures or Dungeons and Dragons. Remember Gail shutdown the new TSR even though Ernie sat on the board of the new TSR because Gary was explicit in granting her all IP rights to whatever wasn't sold to WOTC in his last will, even if he wasn't explicit, estate law automatically grants IP ownership to the spouse over the children in the event of death of the principal IP holder. When the WOTC trademark for TSR expired, the IP rights were automatically returned to the heirs, which was Gail.
Same deal for the Frank Frazetta Art, all the Artwork went to the Frazetta family who promptly sold a large number of original paintings and drawings in open auctions which netted the family a comfortable eight figure nest egg, which they have at least partially used to open the Frank Frazetta Museum in Pennsylvania. Too bad none of his kids inherited his awesome drawing and painting skills.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 15:39:37 GMT -5
Way back in the early 80s, Hero Games said that their house name for "Fantasy Hero" during development and playtest was "YARG" - Yet Another Roleplaying Game.
That was some 35 years ago. The situation has not improved.
And as Rob pointed out, unless you're one of two companies, "You Too can make Tens and Tens of Dollars Writing RPGs!" If you're lucky.
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 17:28:22 GMT -5
Dragondaddy said: "Remember Gail shutdown the new TSR even though Ernie sat on the board of the new TSR because Gary was explicit in granting her all IP rights to whatever wasn't sold to WOTC in his last will, even if he wasn't explicit, estate law automatically grants IP ownership to the spouse over the children in the event of death of the principal IP holder."
Actually, that's incorrect. Gail did not shut down the new TSR (they are still operating in fact). She shut down Gygax Magazine for name infringement which she has complete rights to. She was able to prove that the Gygaxs (Ernie and Luke) were profiting from Gary's name even though they have the same last name. There is a new rumor that she is attempting to do the same with "Garycon". All I have heard is that Luke Gygax recently refused an offer from her on the settlement of this issue.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 18:40:03 GMT -5
Dragondaddy said: "Remember Gail shutdown the new TSR even though Ernie sat on the board of the new TSR because Gary was explicit in granting her all IP rights to whatever wasn't sold to WOTC in his last will, even if he wasn't explicit, estate law automatically grants IP ownership to the spouse over the children in the event of death of the principal IP holder." Actually, that's incorrect. Gail did not shut down the new TSR (they are still operating in fact). She shut down Gygax Magazine for name infringement which she has complete rights to. She was able to prove that the Gygaxs (Ernie and Luke) were profiting from Gary's name even though they have the same last name. There is a new rumor that she is attempting to do the same with "Garycon". All I have heard is that Luke Gygax recently refused an offer from her on the settlement of this issue. I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print. |
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 19:30:15 GMT -5
Dragondaddy said: "Remember Gail shutdown the new TSR even though Ernie sat on the board of the new TSR because Gary was explicit in granting her all IP rights to whatever wasn't sold to WOTC in his last will, even if he wasn't explicit, estate law automatically grants IP ownership to the spouse over the children in the event of death of the principal IP holder." Actually, that's incorrect. Gail did not shut down the new TSR (they are still operating in fact). She shut down Gygax Magazine for name infringement which she has complete rights to. She was able to prove that the Gygaxs (Ernie and Luke) were profiting from Gary's name even though they have the same last name. There is a new rumor that she is attempting to do the same with "Garycon". All I have heard is that Luke Gygax recently refused an offer from her on the settlement of this issue. I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print. She won't outlive Ernie or Luke. She's 20-30 years older than them. Ernie needs to get into shape, he's 4 years younger than myself but needs to curb certain appetites and lose weight. Th rest I have no "immediate" comment on; that is coming through another outlet. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 19:56:33 GMT -5
I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print. She won't outlive Ernie or Luke. She's 20-30 years older than them. Ernie needs to get into shape, he's 4 years younger than myself but needs to curb certain appetites and lose weight. Th rest I have no "immediate" comment on; that is coming through another outlet. I look forward to that. |
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Post by dragondaddy on Jun 10, 2018 19:58:04 GMT -5
Actually, that's incorrect. Gail did not shut down the new TSR (they are still operating in fact). She shut down Gygax Magazine for name infringement which she has complete rights to. She was able to prove that the Gygaxs (Ernie and Luke) were profiting from Gary's name even though they have the same last name. There is a new rumor that she is attempting to do the same with "Garycon". All I have heard is that Luke Gygax recently refused an offer from her on the settlement of this issue. ...Ahh yes, I should pay attention a bit more, as I actually wrote an article about that the year before last. The new TSR currently has the new Top Secret: New World Order game in release rewritten by Merle Rasmussen. I knew that!
Thanks for the correction. I do remember when Gygax magazine shutdown though, for awhile then they were so quiet I didn't think the new TSR was going to do anything else but fold after that.
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Post by dragondaddy on Jun 10, 2018 20:03:39 GMT -5
Dragondaddy said: "Remember Gail shutdown the new TSR even though Ernie sat on the board of the new TSR because Gary was explicit in granting her all IP rights to whatever wasn't sold to WOTC in his last will, even if he wasn't explicit, estate law automatically grants IP ownership to the spouse over the children in the event of death of the principal IP holder." Actually, that's incorrect. Gail did not shut down the new TSR (they are still operating in fact). She shut down Gygax Magazine for name infringement which she has complete rights to. She was able to prove that the Gygaxs (Ernie and Luke) were profiting from Gary's name even though they have the same last name. There is a new rumor that she is attempting to do the same with "Garycon". All I have heard is that Luke Gygax recently refused an offer from her on the settlement of this issue. I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print.
I thought she had a Producer lined up out on the West Coast, and was trying to get a new D&D movie made, shopping some scripts around?
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 20:06:10 GMT -5
I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print.
I thought she had a Producer lined up out on the West Coast, and was trying to get a new D&D movie made, shopping some scripts around?
Given the level of competence she has demonstrated so far, I don't expect to see anything come of that and it wouldn't be a D&D movie by name since WotC has those rights, but trying to get that type of movie done is not easy to begin with. I think that is smoke but no fire. |
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Post by robkuntz on Jun 10, 2018 20:10:07 GMT -5
I wonder how it would have went if they had called it The Lake Geneva Gaming Magazine by Ernie Gygax and Luke Gygax, if she could have prevented them from using their own names in that circumstance? It is a real shame that she has buried Gary's remaining IP so completely that by the time she is gone it will have no value and she is likely to outlive Ernie and Luke. You would have thought she would have wanted the money that could have been made from what was already in the pipeline and what was already in print.
I thought she had a Producer lined up out on the West Coast, and was trying to get a new D&D movie made, shopping some scripts around?
Depends on what time period you are referring to. There have been two separate attempts, over many years, by the Gygax Estate to do a biopic. I am intimately aware of both but am constrained due to various reasons from elaborating upon them. There is what has been announced in the news on the Internet, however; and that was 3 years ago (approximately). |
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 10, 2018 20:22:54 GMT -5
I thought she had a Producer lined up out on the West Coast, and was trying to get a new D&D movie made, shopping some scripts around?
Depends on what time period you are referring to. There have been two separate attempts, over many years, by the Gygax Estate to do a biopic. I am intimately aware of both but am constrained due to various reasons from elaborating upon them. There is what has been announced in the news on the Internet, however; and that was 3 years ago (approximately). I would be very surprised if anything happens while she is in charge. |
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