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Post by scottanderson on Apr 1, 2015 6:57:48 GMT -5
I'm starting from absolutely ground zero designing an ODD gnome PC race, 3Lbb only. A little later today I will pore over the books themselves.
Initial thoughts: gnomes are not particularly distinct from dwarves in m&t. Smaller but essentially the same. I like the idea of gnomes having some magic though.
So dwarf chassis. Hobbit equipment limits- small sized weapons only.
Eligible to advance to FM5 and MU5.
+2 to saves and an additional +2 to Spell save.
That's my off the cuff initial thought. What are your ideas?
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 1, 2015 7:49:09 GMT -5
Have you read the Elizabeth Moon books? She has a wonderful way of presenting elves, dwarves and gnomes as being distinct from each other and from humans. However, they are seldom on screen. I wish she had a background source book published, it would be a gold mine.
The Deed of Paksenarrion novels
Sheepfarmer's Daughter (June 1988)
Divided Allegiance (October 1988)
Oath of Gold (January 1989)
The Legacy of Gird novels
Surrender None (June 1990)—prequel to The Deed of Paksenarrion
Liar's Oath (May 1992)—sequel to Surrender None
The Legacy of Gird (September 1996)—paperback omnibus
Paladin's Legacy novels
Oath of Fealty (March 2010)—sequel to Oath of Gold
Kings of the North (March 2011)
Echoes of Betrayal (February 2012)
Limits of Power (June 2013)
Crown of Renewal (May 2014)
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 1, 2015 12:37:51 GMT -5
Page 16 of M&T:
Not much to go on there. Almost nothing.
The illustration on page 9 of M&M seems to indicate that gnomes are swordfighters by nature, but also go into combat wearing a three-piece suit and a pointy cap.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 1, 2015 12:50:56 GMT -5
One of the ways I have seen them portrayed is very prickly about honor and contracts and about not being in anyone's debt in anyway.
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 2, 2015 22:03:28 GMT -5
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Post by The Red Baron on Apr 3, 2015 12:58:27 GMT -5
Gnome: see Dwarf.
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 3, 2015 16:08:15 GMT -5
Yeah. That's what the LBBs say. I guess BTB a gnome is a shorter, hairier dwarf. But that seems like a dodge to me.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 3, 2015 16:24:41 GMT -5
Yeah. That's what the LBBs say. I guess BTB a gnome is a shorter, hairier dwarf. But that seems like a dodge to me. Yeah, I see them as completely different from dwarves myself and much less hairier. |
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 3, 2015 20:11:57 GMT -5
Yeah. That's what the LBBs say. I guess BTB a gnome is a shorter, hairier dwarf. But that seems like a dodge to me. Yeah, I see them as completely different from dwarves myself and much less hairier. Me too. Actually, I like the idea of great exquisitely cultivated facial hair and hairdos; great, wonderful hats; horticulturally-magnificent hair dyes. |
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 3, 2015 20:15:17 GMT -5
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Post by The Red Baron on Apr 3, 2015 23:52:37 GMT -5
great exquisitely cultivated facial hair and hairdos; great, wonderful hats; horticulturally-magnificent hair dyes. Again, that's a dwarf. As per The Hobbit, they are little old men with colorful beards and colorful hooded cloaks. |
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 3, 2015 23:56:40 GMT -5
great exquisitely cultivated facial hair and hairdos; great, wonderful hats; horticulturally-magnificent hair dyes. Again, that's a dwarf. As per The Hobbit, they are little old men with colorful beards and colorful hooded cloaks. And again, you are BTB correct. There is no mechanical or cultural difference between the two, except gnomes sometimes live in burrows like a hobbit may do. But that's so boring, man |
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Post by The Red Baron on Apr 4, 2015 0:26:25 GMT -5
I consider colorful lively dwarfs to be interesting and grungy dirty gold-grubbers boring.
Gnomes are redundant.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 8, 2015 21:49:19 GMT -5
Dwarves:
They have a high level of magic resistance, and they add four levels when rolling saving throws (M&M p. 7)
They are the only characters able to fully employ the +3 Magic War Hammer (M&M p. 7)
They note slanting passages, traps, shifting walls and new construction in underground settings (M&M p. 7)
Dwarves have a chance to detect sound at doors on a 1 or 2 in 6 (U&W p. 9)
They are able to speak the languages of Gnomes, Kobolds and Goblins in addition to the usual tongues (M&M p. 7)
Because of their relatively small size, clumsy monsters like Ogres, Giants and the like will have a difficult time hitting Dwarves, so score only one-half the usual hit points when a hit is scored (M&T p. 16). The same also applies in regard to Trolls (Chainmail p. 29)
Dwarves are about 62.5% the size of men (Chainmail p. 28)
Dwarves may operate in normal darkness as if it were light (Chainmail p. 29)
Disadvantage: When ordered by a "commander" or "leader" to attack goblins or kobolds, these will be attacked to the exclusion of orders to the contrary.
Dwarves are aligned with LAW (Chainmail p. 39).
Dwarves may be NEUTRAL as well as LAWFUL. (M&M p. 9)
Dwarves (and elves and hobbits) have a chance to detect sound at doors on a 1 or 2 in 6.
So how would we really and completely describe gnomes as radically different from dwarves?
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 9, 2015 12:47:16 GMT -5
LOL so Gygaxian "62.5% the size of men" --- EXACTLY 62.5%!!
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 10, 2015 11:03:24 GMT -5
Dwarves
| Gnomes
| | 4 to 4-1/2 feet tall | 3 to 3-1/2 feet tall
| Squat/Broad/Brawny
| Lean/Tough/Sinewy | Extremely Dense Flesh
| Weigh as Expected for Size
| Usually Lawful
| Usually Lawful
| Focus is on obtaining Gold, Silver and other Precious Metals
| Focus is on obtaining Gems and renowned for their ability to cut Gems.
| Known for Forging Weapons and Armor
| Known for Stone Cutting
| Deep Hatred for Orcs and other evil humanoids
| Deep Hatred for Kobolds/Gnolls
| Reserved in Manner, stubborn and suspicious. Prickly and prideful.
| Reserved in Manner and it is hard to gain their trust. They take contracts and negotiations very seriously.
| Thick strong fingers that are amazing in their dexterity
| Very nimble, quick and dextrous
| Both sexes have thick luxurious medium length beards that they take great pride in.
| Large eyes, noses and ears, very sharp senses, well-trimmed short beards
| Life Span up to 700 years
| Life Span up to 500 years
| Get along well with Gnomes, tolerate Elves in alliance against Orcs and such
| Get along well with Dwarves and Elves
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 10, 2015 14:43:40 GMT -5
In the alternate cosmogony of my BX homage game, I made dwarves, gnomes and hobbits distantly related. Dwarves were of the (elemental) earth, gnomes were of the (elemental) air, and hobbits were of the (elemental) water. The practical result is that dwarves turn to stone at death; gnomes turn to ash and are scattered to the four winds; and hobbits turn to good earth, most suitable for planting. It's just fluff, until you want to raise dead.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 10, 2015 21:43:47 GMT -5
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Post by scottanderson on Apr 10, 2015 23:40:47 GMT -5
Thank you, Rob. I am honored by your presence. Thanks for taking the time to share those links!
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 11, 2015 21:12:14 GMT -5
My pleasure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 9:34:08 GMT -5
As I use the Judges Guild Supplement The Spies of Lightelf, which details a village made mostly of Gnomish inhabitants, I found it necessary to develop a Player Character Gnome that somehow similar, yet differed from Dwarves. This is what I came up with:
Gnomes have infravision out to 60', but even a candle's worth of light spoils this ability.
Gnomes instinctively spot unusual or new stonework and slanting passages. They can also determine approximate depth underground, as do Dwarves. When actively searching for stonework or mechanical traps, they may find them on a roll of 1-2 on a d6.
Gnomes may hear faint sounds on a roll of 1-2 on a d6. They also have a keen sense of smell that may allow them them to identify potions on a roll of 1-3 on a d6.
When in melee with Giant type creatures, they take half damage from successful hits.
Gnomes add a +2 to all Saving Throws and an additional +2 to Saves against Spells, as they are a hardy and cunning people.
Gnomes speak Common, Dwarvish, and their alignment language, generally Lawful. They also speak several dialects of Kobolds, Goblins, and Hobgoblins.
Player Character Gnomes may be Fighting Men up to Fourth Level. They may become Magic Users up to Level 5, and may specialize as Illusionist, as per the Strategic Review article in Volume 1, Issue 4. Gnomes are also unlimited in levels as Thieves, as per the Greyhawk Supplement, garnering the same dexterity bonuses as Halflings, due to their size.
Gnomes are unable to use Longbows or particularly large weapons due to their size.
I apologize for necroposting, but this topic was on page one and has been a topic of debate for quite some time. Just tossing my hat into the ring ...
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Post by Admin Pete on Sept 29, 2015 14:02:10 GMT -5
JMiskimen all threads are open to new posting, so reviving older threads is cool. 
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