[Revised] The Church

[Mr Darke]

So I have a free weekend I am am looking at things on the revision. Interestingly enough I am focusing more on religion at this point but I do feel it does separate this setting from others as I am going from a more 'Christian' standpoint that other settings do. I also want to say that this is pure fantasy and while it may include some of my personal beliefs; it does not show all of them and gives an alternate or parallel way of how things could have developed. Also note any dating is placeholding and arbitrary. 




While Christianity did originate in the old Palestinian states of Rome it germinated and flourished mainly in Greece with some influence from Egypt and Rome. Early leaders of the Church in Greece saw connections in the teachings to the writings of Hermes Trismegistus, Plato and even books they claim were written by Thoth. While not canonized by the church these writings were considered beneficial to understanding the deeper meanings of the faith and began to be taught in tandem with Christian doctrines. A few centuries later an Egyptian-Hebrew Rabbi names Yesuf El-Mahdy came to Athens, then the seat of power of the Greek Church, and showed that there were also connections to the teachings of Kabbalah.



For 10 years Yesuf worked with the leaders of the church and there they compiled the Codex Semita which reconciled the teachings together. Along with Yesuf's knowledge of Hebrew he and the church also produced the Integrum Scriptura* which was a new and fresh translation of the Tanakh with apocryphal books collected in an appendix. Together the Codex Semita and Integrum Scriptura would form the basis of the canon for the new church. While some leaders saw this as heresy the work was upheld when a mass vision of the Angel Raziel appeared to leaders showing that Raziel himself helped guide the writings and revealed that Raziel, Thoth and Hermes Trismegistus were the same being and was chosen to reveal these secrets. This pacified all but the most zealous and orthodox factions.



In the following years there were some religious contentions but most of opposition to the Athenian Path (as it had been dubbed) had died off. While regular corrections and revisions to the foundational material were being done, Rome's synod began collecting and analyzing documents supposedly written by apostles and a large number of gospels they invited the Athenians to join and worked together to identify true texts, forgeries or outright deceptions. All went well until a large debate arose over the works of the Apostle Paul.



The debate was over multiple copies of the same letters that contradicted each other and a few that were deemed original that showed a possible duplicity in Paul's teachings. Debates over roles of women (which the Athenians decided did have equal leadership rights), his alternating views on marriage and leadership roles, ended in a vote that would stalemate the process. Split down regional lines Rome voted for inclusion of the letters that were more than likely genuine, Athens voted to not include the works until more investigations could be made. In the aftermath of this vote the two groups decided on a compromise that would see these letters released but under the condition that there would be many notations and that they would not be considered as scripture. 

The Roman compromise produced the Liber Evangelium, A collection of several Gospels, The Codex Litterae, A collection of letters from apostles and teachers as well as early church leaders and 
Quaeritur Autem Paulo (question of Paul) which was a book containing what are thought the authentic letters of Paul and the debate around them. A final decision was made to investigate the book of Revelation as questions of its content and authenticity remained open. 

By the year AD 521 many of the foundational church tenets were in place and the leadership was experiencing problems with growth, division of power and how to maintain continuity of governance. A council was called by leaders in Jerusalem to discuss a new ordering and other issues. Knowing that regional leaders were known to be better at deciding issue for their region the church broke Europa and the region known as greater Palestine into 7 districts each with an Arch-Bishop as head. Each division and capital would govern their area with each Arch-bishop serving on a greater ruling council in times of world wide need. These are the following divisions: 

Breton, Canterbury

Greece, Athens

Germania, Berlin

Italia, Rome

Byzantium, Constantinople

West Palestine/Egypt, Alexandria Egypt

East Palestine/Samaria, Jerusalem


While the divisions do work there are questions of where one district ends and another begins. In recent years a call has been made to rework the regions as the world has changed in the last 700 or so years. Questions such as whether England, West Palestine or Germania have true authority over Spain and Rome's shrinking influence are expected to dominate the next few meetings of the Arch-Bishops. 


Beliefs of the church can be seen as quite liberal at times. Believers are encouraged to question and grow their faith, they are also encouraged to study and be familiar with all related documents to come to their conclusion on where they fit in with the Church. Church leadership acknowledges both the exoteric and esoteric sides of the faith and teaches to both sides. They even look for those of the esoteric tendency to train in mystery schools. Mages are accepted ( and sometimes trained) with no qualms unless they delve into necromancy, devil worship or any form of goetia. As well the Church constantly works to correct and update it's texts and practices as new information and learning comes to light. 

The church also acknowledges personal belief as valid. Issues such as drinking, homosexuality, abortion that we see today are all in the personal belief category and the church feels that believers are smart enough to make their own decisions on many issues. This has given the church more time to focus on other issues such as the rise of monstrous races (sometimes from demonic activity), learning scientific principles and leading the charge in improving life for the mortal races. 

However, the church is still a mortal run organization and does have its problems. Factions are forming that want more control over daily lives than the church allows, others are forming to have texts not considered canon brought in or teaching ideas from them as hard truth. There are breakaways that are looking to a coming apocalypse and who reject the idea that certain gods were actually angelic beings. As well there are more than a few priests who are living unsanctioned lives of extravagance off the people, others are contacting demons and devils to gain power and some are trying to suppress true teaching for control of their flocks. 



So for now that is it as I am working on how Cleric, Paladins and Druids fit in. This is rough work to and I welcome your suggestions. 

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Mr Darke, I like it but my only issues being church apparent willingness to overlook Homosexuality or abortion - I am not opposed to it, I just find it odd that the church would condone or overlook such ideas. The Drinking - meh, the church to my knowledge never was hyper vigilant on that issue.

I do understand it is your fantasy version but I am intrigued as to the why's of the choice; as abortion was never an issue at the time (unless you are allowing via magic); where as homosexuality was frowned on at the very least. I am just curious & will be following this thread with interest.

[Mr Darke]

The main reasons would be the additions of the Hermetic texts and the questioning of the validity of some sources. Also while the church may have actually issued a statement they do acknowledge a believers right to disagree. A couple other possibilities would be that the Hebraic law may have been given differently or determined that it only applied to the Hebrew people (there are some theories out there that follow this line of thought).

One thing I did not touch on was the Eloist vs 'Yavist' debate in the church which debates who the final/true God is. Basically one side claims that the true God is El with the Hebrew God being his son and only given Israel and Judah as birthright. Other deities were given other nations to govern as they saw fit so it is thought that Odin would have been given a nation, Jupiter a nation Baal a nation and so on. The fight between children was what prompted the entrance of Christ with a partial mission to unify the warring tribes back under El. The other side has the Hebrew God as the final God and El just being another name.

Also two other things to consider that I did not touch on yet was that the nature of Christ is still under debate as the Church declares him an 'Unsolvable Mystery' and the growing belief that Man was made Co-Equal with God (Hermetic Belief) and that man gets to choose what is acceptable. Which is an interpretation of priciples like 'As above, So Below' and 'What you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven and what you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven' that let's humanity decide it's course.

In a sense the Church is more 'Libertarian' in its thought in that humanity is left to decide it's own course. While there are laws of conduct and such they pertain more to helping others, worship practices and daily conduct than anything. Also many issues are left open to be looked at later on rather that considered settled. The leaders will reexamine a belief if they see trends emerging or new information becomes available. The church leadership believes in continued incremental revelation that guides humanity to its true fate rather than everything being settled a few hundred years ago.

And always remember this is partially a though experiment for me using some unpopular theories and what if scenarios to see how things could unfold differently. In all honesty 80% of what's here may never show in the game with the church possibly being regulated into the background. Which is usually my luck.

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Mar 3, 2018 19:02:53 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

The main reasons would be the additions of the Hermetic texts and the questioning of the validity of some sources. Also while the church may have actually issued a statement they do acknowledge a believers right to disagree. A couple other possibilities would be that the Hebraic law may have been given differently or determined that it only applied to the Hebrew people (there are some theories out there that follow this line of thought).

One thing I did not touch on was the Eloist vs 'Yavist' debate in the church which debates who the final/true God is. Basically one side claims that the true God is El with the Hebrew God being his son and only given Israel and Judah as birthright. Other deities were given other nations to govern as they saw fit so it is thought that Odin would have been given a nation, Jupiter a nation Baal a nation and so on. The fight between children was what prompted the entrance of Christ with a partial mission to unify the warring tribes back under El. The other side has the Hebrew God as the final God and El just being another name.

Also two other things to consider that I did not touch on yet was that the nature of Christ is still under debate as the Church declares him an 'Unsolvable Mystery' and the growing belief that Man was made Co-Equal with God (Hermetic Belief) and that man gets to choose what is acceptable. Which is an interpretation of priciples like 'As above, So Below' and 'What you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven and what you loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven' that let's humanity decide it's course.

In a sense the Church is more 'Libertarian' in its thought in that humanity is left to decide it's own course. While there are laws of conduct and such they pertain more to helping others, worship practices and daily conduct than anything. Also many issues are left open to be looked at later on rather that considered settled. The leaders will reexamine a belief if they see trends emerging or new information becomes available. The church leadership believes in continued incremental revelation that guides humanity to its true fate rather than everything being settled a few hundred years ago.

And always remember this is partially a though experiment for me using some unpopular theories and what if scenarios to see how things could unfold differently. In all honesty 80% of what's here may never show in the game with the church possibly being regulated into the background. Which is usually my luck.

Very intriguing. As a student of Semitic & Mesopotamian religion. I also like how you are dealing with the Eloist vs. Yahwehist debate, as well as how other pantheons play into such a debate. I've seriously considered converting to Judaism but my studies of the histories of the faith always made it hard. I have read some of Crowley's stuff so I understand where you are coming from Mr Darke.

I love this kind of "What If?" theorizing as it forces you really to not only think but question your perceived beliefs. If I was to convert after all I'd be a heretical henotheist by most standards. I have to admit that this is very inspiring Mr. Darke. If I was going to do such a setting I'd be doing a ton of historical & religious study of the period (which is fun), even if I was to add fantasy elements into the end product.

[Mr Darke]

Thank you. Since we are sharing, I would consider myself a Hermetic or Esoteric Christian (which is the best I can come up with as far as labels go) that leans to the Eloist side of the debate. I guess some of this could be me working out certain things in a fantasy context especially in the esoteric vs exoteric side of things. It is a very interesting subject that I have loved studying as it has helped with certain questions. Which led me to contemplate how things could look if the Church had organized along other lines and conditions.

So things like above and questions like what if the Nag Hammadi Library had not been lost and the Gnostic and Hermetic texts studied in depth; Or the other Gospels had been kept for study instead of set aside are thought exercises I have included. As well, I never was comfortable with the idea that Christianity had excised almost all myth and legend out of the faith so I am having the church here bring it back in. Maybe not as truth but as examples and exercises of certain ideas and theories.

Funny enough this has led me to study certain things deeper and has opened up new ways to look at things. So maybe there is truth to the fact that myth and legend helps us learn. Even if we are writing our own.

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Very interesting, I've done similar exercises in aborted story ideas or during campaign development to one degree or another. I've been contemplating how things would work if I dedicated myself to YHWH or go deeper into the polytheist roots & honor El (Ilu) and the other deities. But my studies have informed my thoughts on the development of game world pantheons.



All of this has sparked my desire to at least explore the possibility of creating a Fantasy earth setting; I am not sure how it'd turn out or if I'd complete it. I still want to revise my World of Skarn but I might use this discussion as inspiration as I work on it as I wanted a henotheist faith loosely based upon Christianity or Judaism. I am also considering going back to my initial idea similar to my "Classic Skarn" - pulling more from Artesia, the Belgariad/Malloreon cycles & A Song of Fire & Ice series, instead of the 5e D&D, Eberron, Talislanta & anime inspiration I injected into it during my initial revision.



I totally agree that these kinds of things can inspire exploring different things in context of our own beliefs.



I look forward to you expanding upon your settings religion as it might in turn inspire me to rethink things as I develop my settings own pantheons & religions.

[Mr Darke]

The Northern Compromise

To illustrate some of the political maneuvering and issues in the church I will give the following example known as The Northern Compromise. In short the Northern Compromise was the only way the Church could gain any foothold in Central and Northern Europe and ended up giving the Elohist factions a political advantage in the Council of Archbishops. The final results are yet to be determined but in the years since the compromise was agreed on more than a few Dioceses have asked for a similar agreement. 

The beginning of the events that would lead to the compromise came when Yahwist led missionaries came into Germania from Rome and Jerusalem to spread the faith. The more strict interpretations and attempts to get the Germanic tribes to convert met with massive resistance and near violence. The missionaries told the chieftains that the only way to be saved was to drop their gods, traditions and break their ties to the land the apparently worshipped. Only a few dared to convert and they were quickly exiled from their communities. The Yahwist group was soon told to leave as well under pain of death. Returning to Rome and Jerusalem the group declared Germania a demon possessed land and began plans to reenter, with force if necessary. 

Hearing of this the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury messaged the Arch-Bishop of Alexandria to discuss the issue. Not wanting to see bloodshed the two began studying certain texts and looked for a solution. During this both Arch-Bishops became convinced of the Elohist argument and saw a possible way into Germania with the careful reading of older Elohist scrolls and some of St. Trismegistus's texts. Canterbury called up seven missionaries of Germanian descent and gave them a document and sent them to Germania with one order, come back with Germania as part of the Church. 

The Seven (as they came to be known) called a meeting with the wary Jarls and Chieftains and explained that they were not of the earlier faction. Over a year the missionaries lived among the tribes and became a part of them. They slowly shared their faith and began to show how things like the Nine Virtues fit the Faith and similarities in stories and beliefs. Focusing only on what was similar began to win over the leaders of Germania and they were close to converting. However, they were wary that they would dishonor their Gods and ancestors if they converted and needed to know for sure they would not be seen as Oathbreakers for converting. 

It was here that Roderik Muller would use what the Arch-Bishops had found in their studies and what would ultimately win them over. Roderik pointed out that Odin was a shaman and that shamans need a higher God to help them. He asked who that God could be and how, if Odin was the highest, he could perform such magic? He began to tell a tale of El and his 70 children, how El gave each child a nation to rule as they saw fit. How those children fought and warred and finally El sent another son to stop the fighting. He named the children of El and each was known as a God or Goddess they had encountered. Pausing for effect and letting it sink in Roderik gave the final two names he knew; Auden and Frigya. The Germanians knew this to be ancient names of Odin and Feyja, they found that El's symbol of a bull fit their tales and when they saw similarities between Balder and Christ they were amazed. 

After this the chieftains met and discussed this. As well The Seven meditated on their next course. Nine days later they met again in Berlin with the Jarls of the Norselands in tow. Questions were asked and answered, agreements were made and in the end; Germania and parts of the Norse territories had joined the Church with Berlin as a temporary capital. Where the Seven succeeded was with showing that the god of the Germanians was connected to The Church by family lines. Roderik also countered the Yahwist argument of conformity with one that said only the laws of Odin were binding to them and now the laws of Christ also applied. Roderik's final stroke of genius was with him saying that nothing of their beliefs had to change save the accepting of El as Odin's father and Christos as his brother and that their gods were essentially Saints. The Germanians agreed with little argument and joined the Church officially on Ostara of that year.


However this was not without controversy. Rome argued that England and Egypt undermined them and the Gospel. Jerusalem, which was and is Yahwist, threatened to break away entirely on the count that pagan gods were just added to the faith. Athens remained neutral on the issue but secretly sent concerned messages to Constantinople over the issue. The next few years would see a growth in Germania, Norse Territories and an area known as Vinland. The most surprising events was at the meeting of Arch-Bishops when a vote of 4 to 2 added Germania as a seventh territory and a later vote of 5 to 2 upheld what became known as The Northern Compromise. Sure that they could block both the Arch-Bishops of Rome and Jerusalem resigned their positions in disgust. 

In recent years the Church of England has relaxed some of its policies to allow natives on the islands to do as the Germanic people had done. England, like Germania has seen a newer type of faith emerge that is a synthesis of 'pagan' and Christian faiths. The Yahwist factions have tightened their regulations and have expelled all semblance of this from their regions. Many fear a split coming between both factions with neutral regions being forced to choose. 



Author's Note: There is no good or bad guys in this situation. What you have are competing philosophies that are at odds with each other. One may be right, both may be wrong, both may be right or the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What I am trying to illustrate is an age old issue with anything, there are many sides and lack of compromise or understanding leads to unneeded issues and splits when there shouldn't be. 

What I am ultimately trying to show is how dynamic a 'monotheistic' faith can be in a game setting and that it can have the same variations and spectrums as a polytheistic one. 

[Hexenritter Verlag]

Very intriguing Mr Darke, I enjoy what you are doing & it is giving me ideas for how to deal with such things in my revised setting as there will be a rise of monotheism; which will lead to conflicts in the setting between the faiths both monotheistic & polytheisic. As the setting will be based more on the Middle Ages than my old hodge podge of eras I've been wanting to introduce a central church within it. Keep up the great work & I look forward to reading more on this topic.

[The Archivist]

Mar 6, 2018 20:30:07 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

Author's Note: There is no good or bad guys in this situation. What you have are competing philosophies that are at odds with each other. One may be right, both may be wrong, both may be right or the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What I am trying to illustrate is an age old issue with anything, there are many sides and lack of compromise or understanding leads to unneeded issues and splits when there shouldn't be. 

What I am ultimately trying to show is how dynamic a 'monotheistic' faith can be in a game setting and that it can have the same variations and spectrums as a polytheistic one. 

You get an Exalt for this. 

[Mr Darke]

A Bit More

I really thought I was done with this for a bit but a few new thoughts occured to me that I want to explore. After reading over this again I will be refining a few points but I want to make a few new points known. Mainly along the divisions among the branches and how to fit them together a bit better. 

First off, the Eloist-YHWHist debate goes much deeper than the names of God and who the true God is. It also encompasses certain practices and points of debate. For example, The Eloists tend to be more drawn to the Hermetic philosophy and practices than the YHWHist believers. They think more along the lines of metaphor and theory than they do absolute belief in the truth of Scripture. They see most everything as illustration and best guesses. Questions of the reality of the Garden of Eden, Christ's true nature and historical aspects of the Bible and Gospels are left open to interpretation. Concepts like Christian Mysticism/Hermeticism, priesthood of all believers and equality to God/Divinity of Man have their root here. They tend to see Human and Demi-Human kind as the pinnacle of creation and the caretakers of the material universe. This branch of thought had it's roots in Egypt, Greece, Rome and parts of  Judah and Samaria and has 'headquarted' in both Athens and Ephesus. However it has spread to Europe especially in parts of Italy and Germania as well as a fair amount of England. 

The YHWHist faction tends to a set priesthood, a philosophy of Sola Scriptura, and the core of Scripture as literal truth. They consider many of the debates closed and reject theory. They are trending to divine right of rulership, rigid structure and question if Demi-Humans have true souls or just spirits. They see extra Biblical sources like the Corpus Hermeticum as containing bits of truth but also suspect and only good for academic study. The branch has its roots primarily in Rome and Jerusalem and has spread into Spain, Byzantium and some of Eastern Europa. 

The Churches of the Northern Compromise are still forming beliefs. With many ideas being taken from the Germanic and Norse countries there has been canonization of gods and heroic ancestors as saints. Continued ancestor worship and the priesthood being a continuation of the Druidic lines has many thinking they continue their old practices while just paying lip service to the church. While they have good relations with both factions the find more agreement with the Eloists than they do anyone else but are suspect of the belief that all gods tie to one god and of their theories that some gods were actually archangels. 

Many worry that the three branches are close to a split of sorts and are close to begin calling other branches heretical. Divinations have shown the possibility of a bloody war within the Church and many want it prevented. There is a ray of hope since all three branches are concerned with the ascension and redemption of humanity, support of arts, science and literature and opening universities things could lead to a new age of enlightenment or a renaissance of sorts. At the last grand council meeting it was said that reconciliation is the highest goal and that all three ideas have their place. There is room for them all to grow and they should. There were dissenters though and this has caused concern. 

As the tensions and hopes grow the Church prays for peace but prepares for war. 

[Hexenritter Verlag]

I am liking this a lot Mr Darke, I can't wait to see what else you do with it.

[Mr Darke]

I have recently started attending an Episcopal/Anglican Church and besides really liking it, I am going to be basing the Karstlands Church of it and certain Celtic-Mystical practices. I am still working it all out in my head but this may tie it all together. The last real thing I have to do is place this all within a world that includes Elves, Dwarves and several monsters. That will be where the differences lie. No I won't have Christ fighting orcs but the Church will have to deal with the issues of humanoids and dealing with their threat.

Now, I am not going with the modern aspects of 'Orcs are people too' and all that. They do have origins and they are not good in the least. Monsters will be monsters and the new school attitudes on this will not be considered much if at all.

[Mighty Darci]

Mar 31, 2018 15:57:26 GMT -5 The Archivist said:

Mar 6, 2018 20:30:07 GMT -5 Mr Darke said:

Author's Note: There is no good or bad guys in this situation. What you have are competing philosophies that are at odds with each other. One may be right, both may be wrong, both may be right or the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What I am trying to illustrate is an age old issue with anything, there are many sides and lack of compromise or understanding leads to unneeded issues and splits when there shouldn't be. 

What I am ultimately trying to show is how dynamic a 'monotheistic' faith can be in a game setting and that it can have the same variations and spectrums as a polytheistic one. 

You get an Exalt for this. 

Have an exalt from me too!