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Post by bestialwarlust on Mar 20, 2015 10:07:15 GMT -5
Who here has players run monsters as characters either by choice or magical curse or some sort of reincarnate. Do you have the player retain their class? Do they have to start a new class at level 1? or do you just use a race as class?
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Post by finarvyn on Mar 20, 2015 10:31:03 GMT -5
I've done this a couple of ways, some "realistic" and others not.
The realistic way is to take a full-strength monster and to scale its HD and other particulars over several levels so that a player can start as a weak one and end up stronger than a typical one.
Another way I've done this (not too "realistic") is to create a single class that represents a bunch of monsters. For example, a player might start off as a low-level undead and advance through the types of undead until they reach the most powerful type. (Look at the turn undead chart for clerics and you can pretty much see the progression I used.) So, a player might start as a zombie, later become a wight, still later a spectre. I know that these monsters aren't really in the same genetic branch, but it was kind of fun to run it that way.
I've done something similar with orcs and goblins and hobgoblins. Also with various skeleton types, since there are some neat skeleton-like monsters in some of the AD&D books.
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 20, 2015 13:22:15 GMT -5
I did this for dragons in my Murkhill campaign. I will have to dig it out and post it here. Since I view dragons (and elves) as immortals unless killed, it made it a bit complicated on the ref end. I ended up breaking dragons into three life cycles. They start as an animal then enter a cocoon, they emerge as 1st level and work up to 12th level (this is the stage where they can be PCs) then enter another cocoon and emerge as adults who go off to find a mate and seldom ever deal directly with anyone other than their minions after this.
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Post by hedgehobbit on Mar 20, 2015 14:07:06 GMT -5
I ended up breaking dragons into three life cycles. They start as an animal then enter a cocoon, they emerge as 1st level and work up to 12th level (this is the stage where they can be PCs) then enter another cocoon and emerge as adults who go off to find a mate and seldom ever deal directly with anyone other than their minions after this. Sounds like Dragonnewts. Personally, I've almost always had a monster character in the games I've run; gnolls, goblins (often), minotaurs (RQ, not D&D), robots, giants, etc. I generally run them as race-as-class (since that's how I do all my non-humans (kinda sorta*)). The only monster type I've played was a pixie in Thieves Guild, where it is a default racial choice. That game also included goblins, kobolds, urek-hai, and regular orcs. I've always wanted to do a vampire class that you can multi-class into when bitten. But I've never gotten around to it. *It looks to the players like race-as-class but it is really just a formula combining racial details and class details which is fine tuned for each combination. |
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Post by ffilz on Mar 20, 2015 15:42:55 GMT -5
Considering I'm running a Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, plus bits of Greyhawk campaign, if someone actually asked to play a monster character (per Men & Magic), I'd come up with some rules depending on what specific monster they wanted to play.
Frank
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Post by bestialwarlust on Mar 20, 2015 15:47:14 GMT -5
Cool it's interesting too see how others deal with this. Me I'd be tempted to use the Orcs of That from the classic D&D gazette line which uses race as class and pilfer from there.
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 28, 2015 0:15:12 GMT -5
Considering I'm running a Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, plus bits of Greyhawk campaign, if someone actually asked to play a monster character (per Men & Magic), I'd come up with some rules depending on what specific monster they wanted to play. Frank Great! When Ruby dies, I want to play a half-minotaur water orc anti-cleric! I mean... If she dies lol. Pretty sure her 4 WIS will get her before her 4 CON does. |
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Post by tetramorph on Mar 28, 2015 11:30:35 GMT -5
Thanks for these posts you guys.
I have been really intransigent about having monster PCs. Just against my "Lawful" and "traditional legendaria" purity code.
But my tabu against robots finally broke down. So I guess, in certain contexts (not, probably, my "overly-serious" "Dun Kells") I can imagine them.
This AM my boy wanted to ref. My girl would only play if she could be "Draculaura." In the past I would have banned it. (What a stick in the mud dad!) But, thanks to you guys, I just said, "hey, son, check the vampire stats in M&T and we'll figure out a character sheet for Draculaura."
I must say it helped the party to have a 7HD creature among us! I convinced my son that she would surely have some magic item by now. She rolled up a mirror of life trapping!
Let the fun begin!
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 28, 2015 16:33:53 GMT -5
Thanks for these posts you guys. I have been really intransigent about having monster PCs. Just against my "Lawful" and "traditional legendaria" purity code. But my tabu against robots finally broke down. So I guess, in certain contexts (not, probably, my "overly-serious" "Dun Kells") I can imagine them. This AM my boy wanted to ref. My girl would only play if she could be "Draculaura." In the past I would have banned it. (What a stick in the mud dad!) But, thanks to you guys, I just said, "hey, son, check the vampire stats in M&T and we'll figure out a character sheet for Draculaura." I must say it helped the party to have a 7HD creature among us! I convinced my son that she would surely have some magic item by now. She rolled up a mirror of life trapping! Let the fun begin! You can also work out a level progression to take the vampire from 1 HD to 7 HD over time, if you want to. Some people worry about it "breaking" the game to let the PC start powerful; however, I maintain that the game is unbreakable. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 28, 2015 16:34:18 GMT -5
Considering I'm running a Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, The Underworld & Wilderness Adventures, plus bits of Greyhawk campaign, if someone actually asked to play a monster character (per Men & Magic), I'd come up with some rules depending on what specific monster they wanted to play. Frank Great! When Ruby dies, I want to play a half-minotaur water orc anti-cleric! I mean... If she dies lol. Pretty sure her 4 WIS will get her before her 4 CON does. Tell me about your "water orc"? |
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 28, 2015 16:39:16 GMT -5
Oh that's just a little joke based on the outrageous templating possibilities inherent to 3.X. A half-minotaur water orc would have a +8 to his strength score right out of the gate without any huge penalties to mental ability scores. And he could breathe water and never get lost in a maze. And because he is a Large creature, he could wield better weapons.
But just try to be a drink at a bar!
On a more serious note, a "water orc" is a basic orc with an ancestor from the elemental plane of water. Elemental templates were introduced in 3e Unearthed Arcana.
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 28, 2015 16:43:22 GMT -5
Oh that's just a little joke based on the outrageous templating possibilities inherent to 3.X. A half-minotaur water orc would have a +8 to his strength score right out of the gate without any huge penalties to mental ability scores. And he could breathe water and never get lost in a maze. And because he is a Large creature, he could wield better weapons. But just try to be a drink at a bar! On a more serious note, a "water orc" is a basic orc with an ancestor from the elemental plane of water. Elemental templates were introduced in 3e Unearthed Arcana. Ah, I looked at 3E briefly (read the core books, then re-sold them) I thought you had created an old school multiple orc types and if so I wanted to see it.  |
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 28, 2015 16:47:43 GMT -5
The great thing about old school monsters is they are mechanically simple. If you wanted a water Orc, you just say, "these orcs are blue and they breathe water." Bang! Water orcs!
And then if you want them to be stronger than a normal orc, just give them an extra hit die or a +2 to hit in melee. You don't need all these darn templates and crazy numbers.
I really don't want to spend an hour every time I roll with a ghost or a vampire. I just want to say, "ooh, this ghost is a purple blob with eyes where it's mouth should be and a mouth right in its stomach, and it's dripping ectoplasm. It looks hungry."
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Post by Admin Pete on Mar 28, 2015 16:51:54 GMT -5
The great thing about old school monsters is they are mechanically simple. If you wanted a water Orc, you just say, "these orcs are blue and they breathe water." Bang! Water orcs! And then if you want them to be stronger than a normal orc, just give them an extra hit die or a +2 to hit in melee. You don't need all these darn templates and crazy numbers. I really don't want to spend an hour every time I roll with a ghost or a vampire. I just want to say, "ooh, this ghost is a purple blob with eyes where it's mouth should be and a mouth right in its stomach, and it's dripping ectoplasm. It looks hungry." I love it - Now I really have to find the time to read your game in full. |
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 28, 2015 17:26:11 GMT -5
The monsters are both incomplete and probably going to change considerably, but the way to make monsters is all in there, including a table showing HD, base Attack bonus, and xp. I have a friend collaborating on this. Someone who is published and who you all know, but he is not ready to be announced- not til he is happy with his contribution. He is writing the monsters and they are AWESOME
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