Don't Track Ammunition!

[scottanderson]

Tracking ammo stinks. It's no fun and people will stop doing it sometimes because it's such a drag.

In a one-minute round of combat, an archer or slinger will probably take many shots. Therefore tracking individual arrows makes little sense.

For these reasons, we should look for a system that feels good, but doesn't require tracking.

What we could do is this: buy arrows by the "bundle" rather than by twenties. A bundle is whatever you can jam into a quiver. So one quiver holds one bundle.

Then we can say you have enough arrows for the next instance of combat. But after that instance, roll 1d6. On a 1, you have run out of arrows! That quiver is empty.

If you have some ability that allows two shots in a round (haste for instance, or I have a background called Royal Archer that allows it), then you are out on a 1-2 on 1d6.

This powerful system can be used for any limited resource such as bandages or lock picks or whatever you might use up but don't care to track.

[captaincrumbcake]

Nothing wrong with coming up with an improved way of handling missiles.

I'm not one to think of keeping track of this as a negative component of the game; does everyone hand wave keeping track of rations on prolonged expeditions?

I personally do not see missile fire being a major part of combat. That's just me. I follow the "shoot into the melee, you might hit your companions if you miss the monster" reasoning. Also, a standard bow is not very functional in a dungeon due to arc of missile and range; crossbows and, to some extent, slings, work better. But if the character simply misses, I follow the ruling that if they take the time to find all those "missed shots" there is only a 1 in d6 chance the arrow will be broke or is useless; retrieval is thus possible--especially for sling stones.

[bravewolf]

Jul 7, 2017 10:22:07 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

Tracking ammo stinks. It's no fun and people will stop doing it sometimes because it's such a drag.

In a one-minute round of combat, an archer or slinger will probably take many shots. Therefore tracking individual arrows makes little sense.

For these reasons, we should look for a system that feels good, but doesn't require tracking.

What we could do is this: buy arrows by the "bundle" rather than by twenties. A bundle is whatever you can jam into a quiver. So one quiver holds one bundle.

Then we can say you have enough arrows for the next instance of combat. But after that instance, roll 1d6. On a 1, you have run out of arrows! That quiver is empty.

If you have some ability that allows two shots in a round (haste for instance, or I have a background called Royal Archer that allows it), then you are out on a 1-2 on 1d6.

This powerful system can be used for any limited resource such as bandages or lock picks or whatever you might use up but don't care to track.

This system is too swingy in my opinion and can even unduly penalize players. A 1 in 6 chance of running out of ammo is a 13.33% chance that a PC will run out, possibly in the first martial encounter. If a PC shells out for 20 arrows, they should have a reasonable chance of putting them all to use.

But you say what about all the shots fired during a 1-minute round? I say the number is situation-dependent. In a standard dungeon fight, an archer will get one or two shots off, that's it. Why? The fight is not static and the archer has to maneuver - or wait - and aim, taking care not to poke her mates.

My players don't like bookkeeping much, but find that tick marks are easy.

[bravewolf]

There are situations in which gobs of missiles could be hurled in a melee round, but these are probably exceptions rather than the rule. Too, such situations are liable to arise in mass combat, where one might use Chainmail or the like anyway.

[Deleted]

The exception is magic arrows. They have to be strictly tracked.

[scottanderson]

Thank you Mike, that's true. A magic arrow isn't part of a bundle, but it's own entity.

I think swinginess is part of the appeal, just like rolling hit point damage and treasure hoards.

Would it make a difference to you guys if you rolled a 1d8? a 1d10?

[bravewolf]

Jul 7, 2017 13:45:20 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

Thank you Mike, that's true. A magic arrow isn't part of a bundle, but it's own entity.

I think swinginess is part of the appeal, just like rolling hit point damage and treasure hoards.

Would it make a difference to you guys if you rolled a 1d8? a 1d10?

Not really; I think that your houserule doesn't accord with how I run my games and see OD&D is all. But since I am also an inveterate tinkerer, what about having bundles last for 5-10 combative encounters? Less bookkeeping overall, could be farmed to players or referee to track. Or roll as you indicate above only after 3-5 combats? That way your players have a modicum of predictive use of their tools & still chance rapid attrition after the first few encounters.

[scottanderson]

Oh yes, both excellent ideas. Thank you! My G+ thread has turned up a reducing hazard die and a 2 on 2d6; also make a WIS save to find the wasted arrows you just used! A lot of different fun stuff people do with ammo.

[sixdemonbag]

I don't track mundane ammo at all. I don't see remembering to roll a "usage" die or tracking "encounters" as any different than just changing the "20" to a "19" on the character sheet.

Although, I'm probably the wrong person to ask, as I don't track ammo, common adventuring gear, or encumbrance. Honestly, all I want on my character sheet are my ability scores, XP (at the ref's discretion, I don't always track XP when I ref), GP (and important gems/jewelry), and spells/magic/special items. PCs are assumed to be competent and have the basics needed to traverse the wilderness, delve dungeons, and fight monsters.

However, I respect those that track movement rates, XP, consumables, encumbrance, and non-GP coin. Resource management can be enjoyable if not taken too seriously.

[Von]

I like the idea of buying arrows by the quiver. Historically I've tended to have "you're out of ammo" as a thing that can happen on fumbles, like dropping torches or losing your rations. It keeps resources in mind without degenerating into the kind of "I have six bullets on my bandolier, another six strapped to my thigh, and half a dozen shoved down my boots... now, how many copper pieces does it cost to make these waterproof?" behaviour for which I don't have time.

(I mean that in a strictly practical sense. I run my games as one-offs or irregular episodes, two or three times per year. For week-on-week campaigning I can see the value in tracking resources more intimately, as it were, but for me this sort of thing is not the best use of a limited resource, to whit game time.)

(Also, I've had cause to rehabilitate a player who has been the victim of 'gotcha!' referees - the sort of people who'll wait until the third day of a march to say "by the way, since none of you have clothes on your character sheet, you all die of exposure" and expect micro-detailing of exactly which pocket your bullet-deflecting cigarette case is in. It's possible that this poor chap, who is quite enough of a pedant on his own without doubling down in self-defence, has put me off the concept.)

[finarvyn]

I've run many "high fantasy" games where flash and panache trumps little details, and for those games I seldom track encumbrance and rations and ammo and stuff like that.

On the other hand, I've also run "grim and gritty" games where resource management is a bigger part of the game and the picky details become critical. How many days of rations do you have? How many arrows? How many gold or silver or copper coins? In a modern post-apocalyptic game maybe how many gallons of gas?

I think that it comes down to the style of the campaign. Some require those details, some are hurt by them. Just my two coppers.

[Admin Pete]

For me it is more a matter of "feel" and "intuition", sometimes it is very relevant we track things closely and other times is really is not relevant and we hand wave it. IMC I have rarely had anyone shoot enough arrows to run out, where food and water, torches and other items do run low. Now when I play in a game, I make use of the advantages of using bows, crossbows, slings and other distance weapons.

[bravewolf]

Jul 14, 2017 7:51:03 GMT -5 finarvyn said:

I've run many "high fantasy" games where flash and panache trumps little details, and for those games I seldom track encumbrance and rations and ammo and stuff like that.

On the other hand, I've also run "grim and gritty" games where resource management is a bigger part of the game and the picky details become critical. How many days of rations do you have? How many arrows? How many gold or silver or copper coins? In a modern post-apocalyptic game maybe how many gallons of gas?

I think that it comes down to the style of the campaign. Some require those details, some are hurt by them. Just my two coppers.

Are you tracking those coppers? :-D

[scottanderson]

OD&D dungeon trips should have a survival horror feel. The monsters are unearthly and at any minute your man could die the next turn. Watching your resources dwindle is a part of that. This idea - of a bundle that could run out - is a compromise to keep people tracking when they might not otherwaise.

[sixdemonbag]

Jul 14, 2017 19:05:10 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

OD&D dungeon trips should have a survival horror feel. The monsters are unearthly and at any minute your man could die the next turn. Watching your resources dwindle is a part of that. This idea - of a bundle that could run out - is a compromise to keep people tracking when they might not otherwaise.

I'd love to play in this type of game. It would be a good change of pace to the D&D I'm used to. I usually just handwave most of this stuff with bags of holding and such. I posted in the torches thread that some players love this stuff and some hate it. I just let everyone decide themselves if they want to track anything. Either way doesn't bother me as a ref. I trust them to be reasonable or handle it on their own.

[scottanderson]

As long as the people at the table can stay focused, it is not hard to add resource tracking. It can almost be automated. A simple schedule of events in each day, turn, or round, plus a time tracker sheet, makes it trivial to keep track of all your resources.

I also use a character sheet that emphasizes trackable elements.

The real issue is, is everyone at the table on board with the process, and can they stay focused enough so that this stuff doesn't eat up all the table time.

In light of the (very early) evolution of the game away from wargames and board games into story-game territory, finding and/or training such players is an uphill battle. I believe it's worth the trouble but it is a lot of trouble!

[sixdemonbag]

Jul 16, 2017 1:49:07 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

As long as the people at the table can stay focused, it is not hard to add resource tracking. It can almost be automated. A simple schedule of events in each day, turn, or round, plus a time tracker sheet, makes it trivial to keep track of all your resources.

I also use a character sheet that emphasizes trackable elements.

The real issue is, is everyone at the table on board with the process, and can they stay focused enough so that this stuff doesn't eat up all the table time.

In light of the (very early) evolution of the game away from wargames and board games into story-game territory, finding and/or training such players is an uphill battle. I believe it's worth the trouble but it is a lot of trouble!

A nice side-effect of this is that it adds a lot of tactical complexity to an already quite abstract combat system. With an additional focus on resources, I can see this creating a not-so-subtle emphasis on exploration at the the expense of combat (which to me is a very good thing).

Although, like you said, this might be an uphill battle with some players, but certainly worth the trouble in my book. Tilting the balance in favor of exploration is uniquely OD&D to me and this is a wonderful way of doing just that.

[mao]

I don't much track anything, let alone individual arrows but your proposed solution is IMNSHO worse. There are far better ways to spend your DMing time. Now that being said I have banned all spells that create food or water so that I can starve my players from time to time,Noe thats Fun!

[Admin Pete]

Sept 10, 2017 15:44:58 GMT -5 mao said:

I don't much track anything, let alone individual arrows but your proposed solution is IMNSHO worse. There are far better ways to spend your DMing time. Now that being said I have banned all spells that create food or water so that I can starve my players from time to time,Noe thats Fun!

Why am I not surprised!

[mao]

Sept 10, 2017 19:07:04 GMT -5 Admin Pete said:

Sept 10, 2017 15:44:58 GMT -5 mao said:

I don't much track anything, let alone individual arrows but your proposed solution is IMNSHO worse. There are far better ways to spend your DMing time. Now that being said I have banned all spells that create food or water so that I can starve my players from time to time,Noe thats Fun!

Why am I not surprised!

Actually the last sessions of the Sundered Worlds was about 6 games where there was no food or water and the "noise" in The Library of Celano prevented sleep and tis no spells or healing gotten back by players

[Crimhthan The Great]

Jul 7, 2017 10:22:07 GMT -5 scottanderson said:

Tracking ammo stinks. It's no fun and people will stop doing it sometimes because it's such a drag.

In a one-minute round of combat, an archer or slinger will probably take many shots. Therefore tracking individual arrows makes little sense.

For these reasons, we should look for a system that feels good, but doesn't require tracking.

What we could do is this: buy arrows by the "bundle" rather than by twenties. A bundle is whatever you can jam into a quiver. So one quiver holds one bundle.

Then we can say you have enough arrows for the next instance of combat. But after that instance, roll 1d6. On a 1, you have run out of arrows! That quiver is empty.

If you have some ability that allows two shots in a round (haste for instance, or I have a background called Royal Archer that allows it), then you are out on a 1-2 on 1d6.

This powerful system can be used for any limited resource such as bandages or lock picks or whatever you might use up but don't care to track.

I do not find tracking any type of consumables (arrows, rations, water/wine/ale/beer, torches, slingstonesm etc) to be difficult or time consuming or a drag. You make a sheet with the names of each item on it. You write the number of each item, then you draw a short vertical line every time you use one and every fifth line is horizontal drawn through the other four. Quick easy and read at a very quick glance. Each player does their own, I don't play with people that can't be trusted. Zero problem.

[distortedhumor]

One idea if you don't want to keep count is that if arrows are used in the game, that a pack of arrows lasts X number of sessions. Though magic arrows are always counted carefully.

[voyagingid]

Not sure if you've seen it already, but the usage die mechanic from the Black Hack works well for quivers. Start with a d10 after combat roll 1-3 on usage die now a d8. Next combat roll 1-3 usage on die now it's a d6. Roll a 1-3 on d4 = out of arrows.