|
Post by The Red Baron on Feb 22, 2015 17:01:36 GMT -5
Here is how I handle scrolls.
Any character can cast a spell from a scroll, but even magic-users (or clerics) have no idea what that spell is. A read magic spell lets a magic-user discern what a scroll has written on it.
Does anyone run things differently?
|
|
|
Scrolls
Feb 22, 2015 18:14:04 GMT -5
Post by Admin Pete on Feb 22, 2015 18:14:04 GMT -5
Here is how I handle scrolls. Any character can cast a spell from a scroll, but even magic-users (or clerics) have no idea what that spell is. A read magic spell lets a magic-user discern what a scroll has written on it. Does anyone run things differently? The way I usually run it is that a magic-user can use scrolls with magical spells, a cleric can use scrolls with clerical spells, exceptions to this are paladins, rangers, bards and the like. Cleric can not use magical spell scrolls and Magic-Users can not use clerical spell scrolls. Magic-Users and Clerics (and the exception classes) can identify their own type of spells from the scrolls. A de facto house rule is that read magic is not actually needed for scrolls although I have never spelled that out to the players, it would only be needed for a Magic-Users to identify clerical spells and vice versa. The other way that I use Read Magic is for old magic/magic related documents and the spell is needed because the language is archaic.
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Feb 23, 2015 6:51:51 GMT -5
Here is how I handle scrolls. Any character can cast a spell from a scroll, but even magic-users (or clerics) have no idea what that spell is. A read magic spell lets a magic-user discern what a scroll has written on it. Does anyone run things differently? That's an interesting take, but for me it kinda wipes the thief's and the magic-sword's ability to read magic. (Read magic on a sword being ultra desirable IMC as it enables a fighter to invoke M-U spells from scrolls!) The way I play it M-U scrolls are for M-Us only (excepting thieves and mythic-swords), clerical scrolls are for clerics only, and anti-clerical scrolls are for anti-clerics only. A M-U cannot read another M-U's spell books or scrolls without use of a Read Magic spell, which then makes a spell (just that particular instance), or possibly two, comprehensible. Once a spell has been is "comprehended" it can then be invoked by that M-U at any time thereafter. This means Read Magic is frequently used during "town time" to prepare scrolls for later use. Since clerics do not have a Read Magic spell in the 3LBBs, I assume their spells are written in Lawful (or Chaotic for anti-clerics), and that clerics can therefore read one another's scrolls (and likewise anti-clerics can read one another's scrolls). Non-clerics who attempt to read clerical scrolls can be blinded, or take 1-6 damage, or cause the scroll to burn up, etc. etc.
|
|
|
Post by finarvyn on Feb 23, 2015 16:39:24 GMT -5
Here is how I handle scrolls. Any character can cast a spell from a scroll, but even magic-users (or clerics) have no idea what that spell is. A read magic spell lets a magic-user discern what a scroll has written on it. Does anyone run things differently? That's an interesting take, but for me it kinda wipes the thief's and the magic-sword's ability to read magic. (Read magic on a sword being ultra desirable IMC as it enables a fighter to invoke M-U spells from scrolls!) This was my initial thought as well. I guess it comes down to whether you allow thieves in your campaign. In worlds where I allow thieves I don't allow fighters to read scrolls at all. Magic users and clerics can only read scrolls with the right type of spell on them (arcane versus divine). I like to keep scrolls special. On the other hand, potions can be quaffed by anyone and I like to sprinkle a lot of those around so fighters have something fun to try out. I remember the old DOS computer game "Rogue" where they had all these colors for potions -- I like to roll random colors the first time they encounter a particular potion then leave that color constant for other similar potions for that particular campaign. That way a player might discover that a healing potion (for example) might be aquamarine but poison might be yellow. Players seem to enjoy that trial-and-error stuff, and I don't let them take a sip -- drink it all or nothing!
|
|
|
Post by tetramorph on Feb 23, 2015 17:56:35 GMT -5
I let anyone "read" magic on an INT check. If they are not MUs or they are MUs attempting a spell higher in level than they would normally have access they then make a save against insanity. If insane, I determine the weeks the insanity lasts on a number of d6 equivalent to how much higher the spell was than they would normally have access. Past 14 weeks the insanity is permanent. Clerics loose the favor of their patrons until they confess and do penance.
MU's can cast from a scroll "fire and forget" style, burning up the scroll. They can write it into their own spell book. Or they can cast it "ritually," taking turns equivalent to spell level. In this case the scroll does not burn up.
Complicated, I know. But it all makes sense in my head. And sense I am the ref, well, it works!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 3:52:59 GMT -5
My usual interpretation is half way: I only those who are explicitly allowed to read scrolls do so (magic-user, thief if I have them, magic swords), but they don't know what the spell is until they cast it or use a read magic spell. I like having the same uncertainty that comes from trying out mysterious potions. I always enjoyed that in the Roguelike computer games, having to guess what spell is on a given scroll based on trial and error.
I've flip-flopped between letting clerics read scrolls, or dividing between clerical scrolls and magic-user scrolls (and whether either class can read only one type or both types).
|
|
monk
Prospector
Posts: 90
|
Post by monk on Mar 1, 2015 11:12:57 GMT -5
This is a great thread! Really cool ideas and I love how no one's jumped in and cited a page number and told us how "Gary meant for us to do it" (complete with angry scrunched up eyebrows. hahaha) tetramorph I really like your insanity rules...I'll have to borrow those. This is an area that hasn't been much explored in my campaign yet. So far I've let any MU use Read Magic in down time to figure out what a scroll has on it. He can then cast the spell whenever, but has to roll a d20 to determine success. Anything over a 5 works to cast the spell, but a 18+ gets double effect. Under 5 misfires and something appropriately wild happens (usually something like setting the building on fire rather than straight up MU damage). Thieves get a 10% per level ability to read/cast off of a scroll. We don't have clerics, but clerical spells are mostly on the MU spell list.
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Mar 2, 2015 10:51:53 GMT -5
I'm a Holmes man when it comes to scrolls, at least as far as writing them goes. There are all sorts of variations when I play depending on how pervasive I want magic to be. I always liked amateurs casting spells (and messing up).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 12:24:03 GMT -5
I'm a Holmes man when it comes to scrolls, at least as far as writing them goes. There are all sorts of variations when I play depending on how pervasive I want magic to be. I always liked amateurs casting spells (and messing up). I've always wanted to be able to replicate the end of The Eyes of the Overworld with Cugel spending weeks trying to memorize and cast a spell entirely beyond his comprehension, with fittingly mixed results. When I first read the book a few years ago I assumed that the traditional thief ability to read scrolls after a certain level stems specifically from Cugel, but wished there was some way of letting characters dabble in spell-casting above their level with wildly unpredictable results.
|
|
|
Scrolls
Mar 2, 2015 13:47:47 GMT -5
Post by hedgehobbit on Mar 2, 2015 13:47:47 GMT -5
I'm a Holmes man when it comes to scrolls, at least as far as writing them goes. I like the Holmes scroll rules but 100 XP / spell level just doesn't cut it. My 3rd level hobbit has 6,700 gold pieces and could afford 7 Wish Scrolls plus an extra 4th level scroll for a bonus. That's waaaaay to much firepower for a third level character.
|
|
|
Post by waysoftheearth on Mar 2, 2015 16:58:06 GMT -5
But doesn't it take, like a week (or a week per spell level?) to create each scroll? I think the time "out of game" is at least as important as the amount of gold. Plus (in game consideration), what wizard is really going to give a Hobbit a bunch of wish scrolls for a few gold coins??
|
|
|
Post by The Red Baron on Mar 2, 2015 18:31:22 GMT -5
But doesn't it take, like a week (or a week per spell level?) to create each scroll? I think the time "out of game" is at least as important as the amount of gold. Plus (in game consideration), what wizard is really going to give a Hobbit a bunch of wish scrolls for a few gold coins?? Only a very foolish one. Also consider that a large party + hirelings + henchmen has to spend a good deal of money to sustain themselves in town for a week. And if they stay too long, winter might roll around, which makes adventuring very difficult and dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by Vile Traveller on Mar 3, 2015 9:30:24 GMT -5
I'm a Holmes man when it comes to scrolls, at least as far as writing them goes. I like the Holmes scroll rules but 100 XP / spell level just doesn't cut it. My 3rd level hobbit has 6,700 gold pieces and could afford 7 Wish Scrolls plus an extra 4th level scroll for a bonus. That's waaaaay to much firepower for a third level character. Yes, but you're assuming a 14th level NPC magic-user would spend over a year creating those scrolls, and then actually sell them to a 3rd level adventurer at cost. Of course if a game is that gonzo then there shouldn't be any problem in the 3rd level hobbit getting those scrolls, either. But by actually making the monetary cost relatively low, the scrolls become much more valuable to their maker than their sale price would bring in - in practice I've never had a problem with over-supplied magic users as I don't have magic shops. Wow, 6,700 gp - our current 3rd level party has about 200 gp to rub together, and that's mainly because one of my characters got an upfront payment for a job he didn't finish and the party looted his corpse when he died ...
|
|
|
Post by ffilz on Mar 11, 2015 19:02:25 GMT -5
I needed a price chart for hiring spell casting, I then combined the scroll cost with the cost to cast a spell resulting in these costs:
Cost to have a spell cast by an NPC
MU 1st 50 gp MU 2nd 200 gp MU 3rd 900 gp MU 4th 2000 gp MU 5th 10000 gp MU 6th 12000 gp
CL 1st 60 gp CL 2nd 480 gp CL 3rd 1500 gp CL 4th 2000 gp CL 5th 5000 gp
This cost is calculated as the total number of xp needed to gain the NEXT level after being granted those spells divided by 50 multiplied by the spell level.
Scrolls at an appropriate shop
MU 1st 150 gp MU 2nd 400 gp MU 3rd 1200 gp MU 4th 2400 gp MU 5th 10500 gp MU 6th 12600 gp
CL 1st 160 gp CL 2nd 680 gp CL 3rd 1800 gp CL 4th 2400 gp CL 5th 5500 gp
Frank
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 8:39:55 GMT -5
Interesting idea to calculate the cost on the experience that could've been earned had the spell caster been out using the spell instead of creating a scroll for it. If a PC tries to make these scrolls and sell them, would you allow the profits to go toward experience as well?
|
|
|
Post by ffilz on Mar 12, 2015 11:36:03 GMT -5
That I hadn't decided. For clerics it pretty much always means it would take 25 weeks of scroll making to gain a level.
Since the Magic User experience progression stops doubling at 7th level (well, 6th level, but a Magician's 35k is only 5k short of double a Thaumatergist's 20k), Magic Users experience rate would start accelerating.
A PC selling castings of spells would earn money MUCH faster though...
In the end, probably the answer is best left at "No". Though maybe NPC casters do get to earn experience this way (but then ONLY from selling spells and scrolls to PCs...).
Frank
|
|