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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 17, 2017 22:29:23 GMT -5
Since I've been sitting on my novel for several years now, and never had the stomach to go pounding at publishers' doors, I've had to think beyond my comfort zone.
Seeing how well it's been working for Vile and his BlueHolme, I began to wonder if there might not be some interest in an audio version of my (lengthy) novel. I've discussed the project with a voice actress out of Oregon who is very interested in reading the book for recording purposes, and sent her a copy of parts 1 & 2 (it has 4). But, I thought, how am I going to present this, and my first thought was, like Vile and Rob Kuntz, why not here, at the forums? Though they both already have established markets throughout the internet. So, how can I make this happen?
This is where I need to hear from you kind folk; and especially you, David (PD). My two main concerns are:
1.) I'd like to be able to pay her for her time and services.
2.) What kind of recording file/format should it be in? (I have no technical knowledge of what this would require.)
Of course, I think it's necessary to provide a kind of sound-trailer, as to what the novel is about. That would be the first thing. But I'm not going to even pursue that, if there is not enough interest in the project/story.
[Just so everyone is not totally in the dark, the core of the story is: a world where some women have been bestowed certain spiritual abilities in order to guide and counsel the nobles (men) of the said world. And for centuries these women, divided into 3 sects of a single church, grew in power and esteem as to become the institutional authority through out the lands; manipulating local barons and dukes to command military units for the land's defense. But a schism divides the church, with one sect disappearing and another going into seclusion; leaving only the White sisters in charge. But something happens that begins to shake the foundations of the remaining sisters, as threats from both inside and out threaten their authority.]
So, ladies and gentlemen...your opinions?
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 17, 2017 22:49:55 GMT -5
I am off to bed, but I will have comments Robert!  |
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 18, 2017 20:20:32 GMT -5
Since I've been sitting on my novel for several years now, and never had the stomach to go pounding at publishers' doors, I've had to think beyond my comfort zone. How long is your book? What is the word count? What kind of document do you have, pdf, doc, rtf, etc.? Have you had any readers/proofreaders or gotten any feedback from someone you trust to tell you the good, the bad and the ugly? Seeing how well it's been working for Vile and his BlueHolme, I began to wonder if there might not be some interest in an audio version of my (lengthy) novel. I've discussed the project with a voice actress out of Oregon who is very interested in reading the book for recording purposes, and sent her a copy of parts 1 & 2 (it has 4). But, I thought, how am I going to present this, and my first thought was, like Vile and Rob Kuntz, why not here, at the forums? Though they both already have established markets throughout the internet. So, how can I make this happen? Have you gotten any pricing feedback from her? You can also explore self-publishing by POD and pdf at Lulu and other places. Possibly Amazon. This is where I need to hear from you kind folk; and especially you, David (PD). My two main concerns are: 1.) I'd like to be able to pay her for her time and services. 2.) What kind of recording file/format should it be in? (I have no technical knowledge of what this would require.) Yeah, you need to arrive at good pricing estimates + Kickstarter fees + possible income tax + some safety margin is my impression, talk to people that have done kickstarters. You will need a good time and price estimate that is pretty firm if you go the voice actress route. If she has samples posted, then link to it and let us check out the voice and tell you what we think. I personally don't listen to stuff like that because I prefer to read it myself, but a lot of people do like it. Check to see what else she has done and how it turned out. Of course, I think it's necessary to provide a kind of sound-trailer, as to what the novel is about. That would be the first thing. But I'm not going to even pursue that, if there is not enough interest in the project/story. Again I think you should have some people read it and give you brutally honest feedback? How many drafts has it been through and has anyone else read it? [Just so everyone is not totally in the dark, the core of the story is: a world where some women have been bestowed certain spiritual abilities in order to guide and counsel the nobles (men) of the said world. And for centuries these women, divided into 3 sects of a single church, grew in power and esteem as to become the institutional authority through out the lands; manipulating local barons and dukes to command military units for the land's defense. But a schism divides the church, with one sect disappearing and another going into seclusion; leaving only the White sisters in charge. But something happens that begins to shake the foundations of the remaining sisters, as threats from both inside and out threaten their authority.] So, ladies and gentlemen...your opinions? It could be quite interesting, but so much depends on to what extent you bring the characters to life and much more. So we need to know more and hoping that others will chime in. I have never even tried to write a book so I am not sure how much help I can be beyond posing some questions. Perhaps if you use this to expand upon things we can give you more feedback. |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 18, 2017 21:32:55 GMT -5
PD--if you wish, I can give you the link to my old store account; the pdf of pts. 1&2 are still there, and I have set it for no-charge/fee. Read a bit, and then let me know what you think.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 18, 2017 21:35:45 GMT -5
PD--if you wish, I can give you the link to my old store account; the pdf of pts. 1&2 are still there, and I have set it for no-charge/fee. Read a bit, and then let me know what you think. Sure, sure just pm me the link. |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 4:07:42 GMT -5
Good, concise description of it.
Question: Why "no stomach" to send it to publishers if you consider it buyable/publishable?
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Post by Vile Traveller on Apr 19, 2017 4:31:44 GMT -5
Any reason you're not selling the novel version already? As robkuntz said, what have you got to lose by throwing your work at some publishers in the hope that it will stick to one? Alternatively, if you value your freedom, there are quite a lot of self-publishing outlets these days, as Admin Pete mentions, especially for electronic versions. I only read fiction on my phone these days, because commuting is the only time I can't be doing something else and my phone is the only thing I have handy when I'm commuting. The reason I ask is that, if you can shift enough copies of the novel that way, maybe you could at least get enough funds together to pay for a spoken word sample, enough to build a Kickstarter around. |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 19, 2017 11:00:02 GMT -5
Because I'm not a professional writer. I don't knock out books like those that earn their living doing so. I wrote the book from 2005 to 2006, spending every day (averaging 6 hours per) doing so. I then had to format it in order to load it at LULU. I have two printed versions for myself, both containing a few (minor and sufferable--by me anyway) flaws. Even if (and you know the world of publishing more than I) a company wanted to produce it, I have no doubt there would be editors wanting me to go back over and over everything they would like to change; I'm not talking misspelled words--of which I'm proud to say would be the least of the problem--but correcting the way I chose to say what I wanted to say. I admit that there are likely grammatically improper uses; at the least, awkwardly said. But that's me, and that's how I wanted to express what I was thinking. So, perhaps in that light, the novel isn't worthy of being read.*
Yes. I am retired, and on a fixed income. Any shift in this status could affect me negatively. That said, I do not plan on "selling" the audio-book, per se. The idea is to generate the capital necessary to simply afford the voice narrator, and then provide everyone involved with the audio file. I can already do a POD through LULU right now, if anyone wants to just order the book at cost. But my purpose behind the "kickstarter" was to provide a listening-version of the novel to be heard in-transit while driving, on a bus, train, plane, on vacation--etc.
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 11:41:29 GMT -5
Well I wish you luck however it goes. If you just want to get it out there and if it is deemed good enough to be read aloud, then maybe you should just pdf it for free to get an inkling, like poets do, of whether or not you have an audience for the voice part which, all told, could be very expensive depending on the length of what is to be read. That would be the staged approach I'd take to give you more information and to defray possible unwarranted costs.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 19, 2017 11:59:17 GMT -5
Thanks, Rob. Perhaps I should just provide a link to the pdf and see what folks think. (Did this for PD already.)
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Post by Mighty Darci on Apr 19, 2017 18:57:12 GMT -5
Since I've been sitting on my novel for several years now, and never had the stomach to go pounding at publishers' doors, I've had to think beyond my comfort zone. How long is your book? What is the word count? What kind of document do you have, pdf, doc, rtf, etc.? Have you had any readers/proofreaders or gotten any feedback from someone you trust to tell you the good, the bad and the ugly? Seeing how well it's been working for Vile and his BlueHolme, I began to wonder if there might not be some interest in an audio version of my (lengthy) novel. I've discussed the project with a voice actress out of Oregon who is very interested in reading the book for recording purposes, and sent her a copy of parts 1 & 2 (it has 4). But, I thought, how am I going to present this, and my first thought was, like Vile and Rob Kuntz, why not here, at the forums? Though they both already have established markets throughout the internet. So, how can I make this happen? Have you gotten any pricing feedback from her? You can also explore self-publishing by POD and pdf at Lulu and other places. Possibly Amazon. This is where I need to hear from you kind folk; and especially you, David (PD). My two main concerns are: 1.) I'd like to be able to pay her for her time and services. 2.) What kind of recording file/format should it be in? (I have no technical knowledge of what this would require.) Yeah, you need to arrive at good pricing estimates + Kickstarter fees + possible income tax + some safety margin is my impression, talk to people that have done kickstarters. You will need a good time and price estimate that is pretty firm if you go the voice actress route. If she has samples posted, then link to it and let us check out the voice and tell you what we think. I personally don't listen to stuff like that because I prefer to read it myself, but a lot of people do like it. Check to see what else she has done and how it turned out. Of course, I think it's necessary to provide a kind of sound-trailer, as to what the novel is about. That would be the first thing. But I'm not going to even pursue that, if there is not enough interest in the project/story. Again I think you should have some people read it and give you brutally honest feedback? How many drafts has it been through and has anyone else read it? [Just so everyone is not totally in the dark, the core of the story is: a world where some women have been bestowed certain spiritual abilities in order to guide and counsel the nobles (men) of the said world. And for centuries these women, divided into 3 sects of a single church, grew in power and esteem as to become the institutional authority through out the lands; manipulating local barons and dukes to command military units for the land's defense. But a schism divides the church, with one sect disappearing and another going into seclusion; leaving only the White sisters in charge. But something happens that begins to shake the foundations of the remaining sisters, as threats from both inside and out threaten their authority.] So, ladies and gentlemen...your opinions? It could be quite interesting, but so much depends on to what extent you bring the characters to life and much more. So we need to know more and hoping that others will chime in. I have never even tried to write a book so I am not sure how much help I can be beyond posing some questions. Perhaps if you use this to expand upon things we can give you more feedback. These are good questions! I would like to read the answers!  |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 19, 2017 19:40:00 GMT -5
I. Roughly (just over) 100,000 words. Page count varies from my original letter-sized, to paperback formatting. But, roughly 500 pages for my 2-volume set.
1. PDF
2. So far I haven't had outside opinion other than my son's long ago GF who read it as it poured out of me. She likened it to a medieval rom-drom (romantic-drama). And, as it is written primarily from the perspective of the female characters (there are but 3 strong male figures within the tale that get their moments to shine, but...) she might have had a little bias.
II. I haven't yet. But I think she'll be reasonable. She's already very excited by the project.
1. POD I've already discussed.
III. Well, Perilous Dreamer is going to give it a try. Let's wait for his (soon I hope), early feedback.
1. I can't say how many full edits--but at least 2. I did a lot of chapter-by-chapter editing as I sat down each day to work on the next chapter.
Does that help?
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 19, 2017 20:41:36 GMT -5
How long is your book? What is the word count? What kind of document do you have, pdf, doc, rtf, etc.? Have you had any readers/proofreaders or gotten any feedback from someone you trust to tell you the good, the bad and the ugly? Have you gotten any pricing feedback from her? You can also explore self-publishing by POD and pdf at Lulu and other places. Possibly Amazon. Yeah, you need to arrive at good pricing estimates + Kickstarter fees + possible income tax + some safety margin is my impression, talk to people that have done kickstarters. You will need a good time and price estimate that is pretty firm if you go the voice actress route. If she has samples posted, then link to it and let us check out the voice and tell you what we think. I personally don't listen to stuff like that because I prefer to read it myself, but a lot of people do like it. Check to see what else she has done and how it turned out. Again I think you should have some people read it and give you brutally honest feedback? How many drafts has it been through and has anyone else read it? It could be quite interesting, but so much depends on to what extent you bring the characters to life and much more. So we need to know more and hoping that others will chime in. I have never even tried to write a book so I am not sure how much help I can be beyond posing some questions. Perhaps if you use this to expand upon things we can give you more feedback. These are good questions! I would like to read the answers! Mighty Darci the Mighty Go-Getter... No beating around the bush with you! :0 |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on Apr 19, 2017 21:25:53 GMT -5
"The Mighty Go-Getter" is Darci's Champions (TM) alter-ego. (TM)
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 20, 2017 0:10:18 GMT -5
I'm very biased about the novel, and think it is very interesting. And that is correct--that so much depends on character development.
PD--would it be possible (would you allow me ) to offer a small sample, perhaps a couple of random paragraphs, from the novel in this thread?
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 20, 2017 7:04:01 GMT -5
I'm very biased about the novel, and think it is very interesting. And that is correct--that so much depends on character development. PD--would it be possible (would you allow me ) to offer a small sample, perhaps a couple of random paragraphs, from the novel in this thread? Sample away! At 100,000 words it is going to take me several days to read that (I am assuming that what I have right now is about 50,000 words, still several days in and around life. |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 20, 2017 12:16:56 GMT -5
Thanks, PD. Here goes--
There are 4 main characters: Elaney, Ravenea, Sternham and Kendall. Two Jenuin (White) sisters, a knight, and a barbarian. But, I made the mistake (thinking myself clever enough to do so) of adding so many subplots involving other characters, that it quickly got to the point where keeping a linear timeline became maddening! Imagine the Two Towers with not just two main groups to follow (Frodo and Sam; Aragorn, Gimili and Legolas), but over a dozen! That's how insane it got. That said, I think I did a pretty good job of holding it all together.
Anyway, all that aside. Been communicating with the voice-actress, and she now has the pdf of books 1&2. I'll be in touch with her as to our next step in this whole thing.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Apr 22, 2017 12:54:44 GMT -5
These are good questions! I would like to read the answers! Mighty Darci the Mighty Go-Getter... No beating around the bush with you! :0 I am my father's daughter and mom is the same way, I think that is one of the big things that brought them together, both direct and to the point.  |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Apr 22, 2017 13:06:48 GMT -5
captaincrumbcake, here is my opinion just based on the snipped parts above. Pro: the writing is pretty good and I was pleasantly surprised with the dialogue, I am no expert, but I think quite publishable. The story has piqued by interest, and I want to read more. Con: It does feel very derivative of the Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, at least for what you have shown us so far. Pro: I think with a sympathetic, but blunt editor that can be fixed to make it a bit more unique right out of the gate. Con: For me the soft-core porn is off-putting, I have no interest in reading material that graphic, but if you are going for Wheel of Time meets Game of Thrones I understand why you are doing it. I think that you are unnecessarily limiting your audience appeal and I would advise you to tone it down, if you have a lot of that in the book. YMMV Pro: You are the artist and you have to tell the story you want to tell, even if that limits the audience. Pro: You still need to have a couple of good proofreaders to check your spelling, no one can catch all of their own mistakes IMO.
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 22, 2017 17:22:35 GMT -5
Thank you for your comments, Darci.
My only response can be:
Con 1--The nature of the Sisterhood does share resemblance to WoT in the regards that there are certain orders within that are associated with certain colors. The mysterious "powers" of the sisters indeed have similarities and counterparts that can be found in almost any fantasy-literary work, including LotR, WoT, etc. It's not so much the case as in My Sweet Lord is too similar to He's So Fine, but more the case that Louie Louie, Farmer John, Twist and Shout, are all I, IV, V chord-change songs.
Con 2-- The nature of sex and its role in the world is an intricate part of the overall story. It interweaves with the Sisterhood itself. The scenes I do depict, as in the example, are graphic for a specific purpose; no only for that (given) part of the story where they appear, but for the greater point to which they are a part. Love, also, has such a role, and those scenes I depict within function, as importantly, for the same reason and as a counterpart.
I've never watched Game of Thrones, never read the novels. Don't know even when it first appeared. But my novel is not intended for minors, and I make it a point to declare such in the opening remarks of the book. Along with a "warning" that there are such scenes, so let the reader beware.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 22, 2017 21:48:28 GMT -5
I agree substantially with the comments from Mighty Darci and I have more that I will share likely Monday night. I have never watched Game of Thrones, but have heard a lot about it from people at work constantly talking about. It is quite graphic on HBO and the villains are really evil. Your book does share a lot with it and as was noted, a lot of the sexually graphic writing is not to my taste either. However, I understand why you went there and I also understand how the nature of some stories demands a more graphic telling of the tale. As long as you have decided on the audience you want and the story you have to tell, then you are on solid ground. I agree that is is publishable and that you should find an audience for it. It speaks well that unlike many authors/publishers you do point out that the books is intended for adults and not children. I am looking forward to reading the remaining half of the book and it is easy to jump past a line or two, here and there. I can get the meaning in a swift glance anyway. I was not opposed to Carcosa, even though I preferred the expurgated version. Easier to do with a game than with a book. I also agree about the proofreading by other people is vital, I have noted a number of typo's; not that there are a lot, by any means, but you should of course eliminate as many as possible. Fresh eyes can help you do that. I have a few more comments, but they will need to wait. I am not done with it yet. |
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Post by captaincrumbcake on Apr 22, 2017 22:22:18 GMT -5
Can't wait to see what you have to say, PD. On the subject of...things (typos, graphic descriptions, etc.)-- I had no idea when I began the book that it would run over 1000 pages; just over that, in a printed 8 x 10 sheet form. Thus, when I started going back over to reformat it, font size, page size, and all that posed immediate hurdles for me to negotiate in order to bring it down in actual page count. Admittedly, there are typos. In a pdf, they can be fixed. Don't know if I'll really need to worry about that for an audio book, as long as I can guide the voice-actress through those moments, providing her with the suggestion of keeping her eyes peeled for such things. Of note, none of the examples I posted show the violence that occurs in the story. And there is a lot. And in many instances, it gets kind of graphic. But most adults--and even teens--have become so used to atrocious violence in movies and on television, I doubt anyone would bat at eye at what I describe in most of the combat parts. Perhaps it is sad, funny, puzzling or all 3 that such is the case now days; especially when that same acceptance is not the case for graphic sex in movies and such. Oh, there's nudity, don't get me wrong. But, few--if any--films and such, get really down and dirty in that area of human activity, precisely because the consuming market has not yet reached that point of tolerance/been conditioned to it. I knew, from the start, that it was going to be a story meant for adults...not children. Not even for those under 18; which is clearly stated in the pages prior to the actual story. And I wanted to drive hard the points I wanted to express. I know some will feel queasy about some of the things they read/hear (which ever the case), but I hope they are adult enough to digest what is offered, and not take the style in which it is presented as a personal assault on their own morality. Wow. This is all so...strange to be discussing.  |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 23, 2017 3:34:06 GMT -5
I believe that you should specify a publisher in the book publishing field by getting yourself a good book on that (Try Googling Writer's Digest Yearly), and take the steps through submissions (some publishers have moved to stict electronic only submissions) and roll the dice by submitting it.
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Post by Mighty Darci on Apr 23, 2017 22:01:08 GMT -5
"The Mighty Go-Getter" is Darci's Champions (TM) alter-ego. (TM) Oooh! Darci's Champions™ I love that! The Mighty Go-Getter™! I will have to make use of that! Thank you Tzhett! |
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Post by Mighty Darci on Apr 23, 2017 22:10:10 GMT -5
Wow. This is all so...strange to be discussing. Why do you think it is strange to be discussing the graphic nature of your work? You had to know that graphic sex and graphic violence will lose you one group of readers and gain you another group of readers. There are plenty of people who don't care for either, as there are plenty of people that like both and those that like one or the other but not both. When you write you can go for broad appeal or for a more limited audience. It all depends on what your goals are. If broad commercial success is not your first priority, then don't let that hold you back. I think you should take robkuntz advice. Quite frankly, I won't buy a copy and neither will many of the women that I know, but some will. It will not hurt to find out. A publisher may very well be interested and there is nothing to stop you from publishing on Lulu or elsewhere! Go For It! |
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Post by robkuntz on Apr 24, 2017 5:26:33 GMT -5
"The Mighty Go-Getter" is Darci's Champions (TM) alter-ego. (TM) Oooh! Darci's Champions™ I love that! The Mighty Go-Getter™! I will have to make use of that! Thank you Tzhett! I claim copyright on the Go-Getter part as I coined that first. This allows for the ending phrase, which we license to you free of charge. |
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Post by Mighty Darci on May 1, 2017 7:22:03 GMT -5
Oooh! Darci's Champions™ I love that! The Mighty Go-Getter™! I will have to make use of that! Thank you Tzhett! I claim copyright on the Go-Getter part as I coined that first. This allows for the ending phrase, which we license to you free of charge. So what do you want for the use of "The Mighty Go-Getter™"? |
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Post by robkuntz on May 1, 2017 8:24:32 GMT -5
I claim copyright on the Go-Getter part as I coined that first. This allows for the ending phrase, which we license to you free of charge. So what do you want for the use of "The Mighty Go-Getter™"? It's free except for the Go-Gettiing part that you yourself have to invest in to maintain. |
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Post by Mighty Darci on May 1, 2017 11:42:32 GMT -5
So what do you want for the use of "The Mighty Go-Getter™"? It's free except for the Go-Gettiing part that you yourself have to invest in to maintain. That is eminently fair and definitely attainable! |
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Post by mormonyoyoman on May 1, 2017 20:19:13 GMT -5
Well if it's going to be fair, I want nothing to do with it. Never did care for game balance.
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