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Post by hengest on Mar 17, 2024 15:57:42 GMT -5
If you look at all the worlds developed, the various PDFs and books and releases from everything that came out "BITD," and then imagine everything that was developed and never made public in any way, that's a lot of creativity. A lot of young and faily young people were involved in the game at that time, and it's no surprise that they put a lot of energy into it.
Now most of those involved are older (because time passes) or are one-off young folks who somehow got interested in older forms of the game.
I do wonder if we'll ever have a critical mass like that again. Not that it's a problem, as any one person can generate plenty of world-stuff.
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Post by mao on Mar 22, 2024 19:20:01 GMT -5
Maybe the biggest is now.There are more players now than ever there was. The only thing is that is that there is a ref shortage still player rping might cover that
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 22, 2024 19:36:36 GMT -5
I know my friend from college (the other ref) after college he had written up his own game, I saw the manuscript once, about 100 pages, but then he went into the army and I lost track of him between all of the moves we both made. It was never, as far as I know published, I think it was on the back burner with the move to the army and was never gone back to, kind of wonder if that manuscript still exists.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 22, 2024 19:38:17 GMT -5
If you look at all the worlds developed, the various PDFs and books and releases from everything that came out "BITD," and then imagine everything that was developed and never made public in any way, that's a lot of creativity. A lot of young and faily young people were involved in the game at that time, and it's no surprise that they put a lot of energy into it. Now most of those involved are older (because time passes) or are one-off young folks who somehow got interested in older forms of the game. I do wonder if we'll ever have a critical mass like that again. Not that it's a problem, as any one person can generate plenty of world-stuff. What I would give to have a copy of everything generated at individual tables between 1970-1973 and 1974-1979. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 22, 2024 19:39:56 GMT -5
Maybe the biggest is now. There are more players now than ever there was. The only thing is that is that there is a ref shortage still player rping might cover that Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. |
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Post by mao on Mar 22, 2024 19:46:10 GMT -5
Maybe the biggest is now. There are more players now than ever there was. The only thing is that is that there is a ref shortage still player rping might cover that Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. I think that's part of it but also the kids today are very self absorbed. Doeat change my thinking |
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Post by hengest on Mar 22, 2024 19:47:02 GMT -5
Maybe the biggest is now. There are more players now than ever there was. The only thing is that is that there is a ref shortage still player rping might cover that Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. And there's much more work at a lot of tables. That 3E game I went to had more arithmetic than I did in all of grade school. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 22, 2024 19:52:41 GMT -5
Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. And there's much more work at a lot of tables. That 3E game I went to had more arithmetic than I did in all of grade school. Yeah, I can easily do all of the OD&D math in my head. And tables, like the attack Matrix make life really easy. Although OD&D did not have THAC0, it is pretty back to write down the THAC0 number for each player as the ref with all adjustments applied. You only need the melee and missile number and then it is on auto-pilot. |
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Post by hengest on Mar 25, 2024 20:33:15 GMT -5
I know my friend from college (the other ref) after college he had written up his own game, I saw the manuscript once, about 100 pages, but then he went into the army and I lost track of him between all of the moves we both made. It was never, as far as I know published, I think it was on the back burner with the move to the army and was never gone back to, kind of wonder if that manuscript still exists. Wrote up his campaign? Or like, wrote up his own ruleset? Do you have any way to get in touch with that guy? |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 25, 2024 21:19:02 GMT -5
I know my friend from college (the other ref) after college he had written up his own game, I saw the manuscript once, about 100 pages, but then he went into the army and I lost track of him between all of the moves we both made. It was never, as far as I know published, I think it was on the back burner with the move to the army and was never gone back to, kind of wonder if that manuscript still exists. Wrote up his campaign? Or like, wrote up his own ruleset? Do you have any way to get in touch with that guy? He wrote up his own ruleset, and I lost touch with him about 40 years ago and I have yet to find him on any social media. |
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Post by simrion on Mar 26, 2024 4:42:25 GMT -5
Maybe the biggest is now. There are more players now than ever there was. The only thing is that is that there is a ref shortage still player rping might cover that Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. I was expressing this on an FB group page yesterday. Someone asking how players were expected to navigate Tomb of Horrors. Response run from "you're characters are simply meant to die" to "you cannot navigate this without going through numerous parties or without specific skill sets..." I get the impression few, if any posters played OD&D or AD&D where the assumptions are that the impartial DM provides details and you ask for more details "using" your character's senses. From there you explain to the DM what your character is doing and the impartial DM either explains the outcome or assigns a "chance" and rolls dice to determine an actions success. I get the impression many players of newer versions simply assume the DM is out to get their characters, DM "fiat" is not trusted as a viable mechanic anymore. |
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Post by hengest on Mar 26, 2024 9:06:57 GMT -5
Modern gaming is killing refereeing because of the wholesale move to keep the referee doing the work, but remove his authority and grant player veto power over what appears in the game world and game. These days it is keep doing the work, but we are going to take the fun part away from you. I was expressing this on an FB group page yesterday. Someone asking how players were expected to navigate Tomb of Horrors. Response run from "you're characters are simply meant to die" to "you cannot navigate this without going through numerous parties or without specific skill sets..." I get the impression few, if any posters played OD&D or AD&D where the assumptions are that the impartial DM provides details and you ask for more details "using" your character's senses. From there you explain to the DM what your character is doing and the impartial DM either explains the outcome or assigns a "chance" and rolls dice to determine an actions success. I get the impression many players of newer versions simply assume the DM is out to get their characters, DM "fiat" is not trusted as a viable mechanic anymore. That sounds like a pretty unpleasant way to play any game. If the DM is out to get you / your characters, why are you even sitting down at the table? Oh well. I wonder what the history of this attitude is, if its origins could even be found anywhere in the 1970s. I bet it appeared than that, but who knows, maybe not. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 26, 2024 10:44:42 GMT -5
I was expressing this on an FB group page yesterday. Someone asking how players were expected to navigate Tomb of Horrors. Response run from "you're characters are simply meant to die" to "you cannot navigate this without going through numerous parties or without specific skill sets..." I get the impression few, if any posters played OD&D or AD&D where the assumptions are that the impartial DM provides details and you ask for more details "using" your character's senses. From there you explain to the DM what your character is doing and the impartial DM either explains the outcome or assigns a "chance" and rolls dice to determine an actions success. I get the impression many players of newer versions simply assume the DM is out to get their characters, DM "fiat" is not trusted as a viable mechanic anymore. That sounds like a pretty unpleasant way to play any game. If the DM is out to get you / your characters, why are you even sitting down at the table? Oh well. I wonder what the history of this attitude is, if its origins could even be found anywhere in the 1970s. I bet it appeared than that, but who knows, maybe not. I think part of the problem is people are mostly playing online and not playing with their friends, things happen in those kinds of games that would never happen in a face to face game. The other thing I have read in a lot of FB groups is people complaining about things that happened years ago, they had one bad experience and that is their unshakable view of how the world is. One common trope is that people played in an abusive game for years because either A - they were too stupid to vote with their feet or B - there was no one else to DM and they were too stupid to vote with their feet AND none of them were willing to try to be the DM themselves. Let's be clear, no (insert thing) is better than being abused (insert thing). Somehow a an awful lot of these games involved rape in game, no normal person will stay at a game table where things like that happen to their characters. When any of them are called on it, they trot out the whole, your insensitive and a horrible person because you don't understand my trauma. Actually I do understand your trauma, but unlike people that I do sympathize with, no one had a gun to your head forcing you to sit at that game table. So grow up and get over yourself. This is an internet thing, I have yet, in 49 years, to meet anyone in real life that did not have fond memories of their gaming experience, so I have a hard time believing that this is the majority of gaming experience as it is presented. |
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Post by simrion on Mar 26, 2024 18:28:37 GMT -5
That sounds like a pretty unpleasant way to play any game. If the DM is out to get you / your characters, why are you even sitting down at the table? Oh well. I wonder what the history of this attitude is, if its origins could even be found anywhere in the 1970s. I bet it appeared than that, but who knows, maybe not. I think part of the problem is people are mostly playing online and not playing with their friends, things happen in those kinds of games that would never happen in a face to face game. The other thing I have read in a lot of FB groups is people complaining about things that happened years ago, they had one bad experience and that is their unshakable view of how the world is. One common trope is that people played in an abusive game for years because either A - they were too stupid to vote with their feet or B - there was no one else to DM and they were too stupid to vote with their feet AND none of them were willing to try to be the DM themselves. Let's be clear, no (insert thing) is better than being abused (insert thing). Somehow a an awful lot of these games involved rape in game, no normal person will stay at a game table where things like that happen to their characters. When any of them are called on it, they trot out the whole, your insensitive and a horrible person because you don't understand my trauma. Actually I do understand your trauma, but unlike people that I do sympathize with, no one had a gun to your head forcing you to sit at that game table. So grow up and get over yourself. This is an internet thing, I have yet, in 49 years, to meet anyone in real life that did not have fond memories of their gaming experience, so I have a hard time believing that this is the majority of gaming experience as it is presented. Yeah I agree, if you don't like a game don't play! And if you're that desperate to play either start running yourself or search for a different game. Lots of resources. I run an "evil" campaign because a few players expressed an interest. For the most part they're "evil lite" murder-hobos really just playing do-what-they-want crazy. I pitch some vigilante opponents at them occasionally to keep them twitchy. When they get to "sexual" oriented activities a lot of hand-waving is used on my part. Sorry, I'm certainly not role-playing that stuff in any way, shape or form  |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 26, 2024 18:38:58 GMT -5
I think part of the problem is people are mostly playing online and not playing with their friends, things happen in those kinds of games that would never happen in a face to face game. The other thing I have read in a lot of FB groups is people complaining about things that happened years ago, they had one bad experience and that is their unshakable view of how the world is. One common trope is that people played in an abusive game for years because either A - they were too stupid to vote with their feet or B - there was no one else to DM and they were too stupid to vote with their feet AND none of them were willing to try to be the DM themselves. Let's be clear, no (insert thing) is better than being abused (insert thing). Somehow a an awful lot of these games involved rape in game, no normal person will stay at a game table where things like that happen to their characters. When any of them are called on it, they trot out the whole, your insensitive and a horrible person because you don't understand my trauma. Actually I do understand your trauma, but unlike people that I do sympathize with, no one had a gun to your head forcing you to sit at that game table. So grow up and get over yourself. This is an internet thing, I have yet, in 49 years, to meet anyone in real life that did not have fond memories of their gaming experience, so I have a hard time believing that this is the majority of gaming experience as it is presented. Yeah I agree, if you don't like a game don't play! And if you're that desperate to play either start running yourself or search for a different game. Lots of resources. I run an "evil" campaign because a few players expressed an interest. For the most part they're "evil lite" murder-hobos really just playing do-what-they-want crazy. I pitch some vigilante opponents at them occasionally to keep them twitchy. When they get to "sexual" oriented activities a lot of hand-waving is used on my part. Sorry, I'm certainly not role-playing that stuff in any way, shape or form I am right there with you, I am not role-playing that stuff out either. |
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Post by muddywater on Mar 28, 2024 17:24:06 GMT -5
I wonder what percentage follow through and write their own game?
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