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Post by hengest on Jul 28, 2021 11:30:37 GMT -5
I used to think MIY was impossible. Now I don't.
So let's think of different blocks and ways around them?
1) "I can't think of anything cool."
Think of something trivial and then think of what you need to make it fit into a world. Likely there will be something cool in there, then enjoy the cool thing.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 28, 2021 12:39:40 GMT -5
1) "I can't think of anything cool."
Throw some portals into your game. They can go to someplace else in your game world, someplace else in the dungeon, to anyone of a thousand different worlds. They could go to a room in a city where they have never been. It could go to an area of plains, desert, mountains, sea shore, swamp, forest. They could appear in front of a castle and be challenged to a joust. They could appear outside or inside some ruins.
Jot down a list all these different things and then when you stuff pick one and then riff off of it.
Instead of a portal, how about a trap door and a slide. They end up 5 levels or 10 levels or 100 levels below where they started out. They end up in a room or a large open area or a natural cavern. Their are monsters or statues (that might animate) in the area, or prisoners. It might be a storeroom or a treasure room and the way out is trapped.
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Post by hengest on Jul 28, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5
1) "I can't think of anything cool."
Think of something you don't want to see in a game and then invert it and riff from there. Sick of long-lived elves? Power them up magically but make them especially prone to death. 30 is a ripe old age. Why is this so? Run from there.
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Post by hengest on Jul 28, 2021 21:43:28 GMT -5
2) If I do MIY it won't be balanced. The designers know better.
It doesn't need to be balanced. Players can learn to run away.
Published games are just MIY by committee (usually). You can do anything you want and change anything you want. It doesn't have to be written in stone.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 28, 2021 23:27:25 GMT -5
1) "I can't think of anything cool."
Think of something you don't want to see in a game and then invert it and riff from there. Sick of long-lived elves? Power them up magically but make them especially prone to death. 30 is a ripe old age. Why is this so? Run from there.That would be a really novel approach. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 28, 2021 23:30:19 GMT -5
2) If I do MIY it won't be balanced. The designers know better. It doesn't need to be balanced. Players can learn to run away.
Published games are just MIY by committee (usually). You can do anything you want and change anything you want. It doesn't have to be written in stone. Balance is not an old school concept IMO. While I am not a proponent of trying to make games real world realistic, I will say that the world and you life as you live it is not balanced. There are a lot of things in the world that are out of our league. How many of us could take on a Navy Seal. Balance does not exist in the real world and for me too much balance ruins the game because I can't buy into something that is precisely made easy for me. |
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Post by hengest on Jul 28, 2021 23:31:41 GMT -5
1) "I can't think of anything cool."
Think of something you don't want to see in a game and then invert it and riff from there. Sick of long-lived elves? Power them up magically but make them especially prone to death. 30 is a ripe old age. Why is this so? Run from there.That would be a really novel approach. Hmm, maybe I should give it a shot. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 28, 2021 23:34:47 GMT -5
That would be a really novel approach. Hmm, maybe I should give it a shot. Yeah!  Maybe you should. |
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Post by hengest on Jul 28, 2021 23:35:50 GMT -5
2) If I do MIY it won't be balanced. The designers know better. It doesn't need to be balanced. Players can learn to run away.
Published games are just MIY by committee (usually). You can do anything you want and change anything you want. It doesn't have to be written in stone. Balance is not an old school concept IMO. While I am not a proponent of trying to make games real world realistic, I will say that the world and you life as you live it is not balanced. There are a lot of things in the world that are out of our league. How many of us could take on a Navy Seal. Balance does not exist in the real world and for me too much balance ruins the game because I can't buy into something that is precisely made easy for me. I don't know the OD&D books like some around here but it seems obvious to me that there is no such notion anywhere near them. Exactly, nothing in life is balance. Some people are great drivers and some are really not. Few of us could handle a Navy Seal or a serious martial artist in a remotely fair fight. Lucky us most people with those skills don't pick fights with us. But as you suggested, to me it seems less about having the game imitate the real world and more about risk. Everything that is exciting and "real" in the real world involves risk or at least imagined risk. You are about to explore an abandoned tunnel. What's in there? Will it collapse? You don't know, the excitement is in the tension. If you knew that nothing bad could ever happen, few things would feel worth doing. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 28, 2021 23:45:20 GMT -5
Balance is not an old school concept IMO. While I am not a proponent of trying to make games real world realistic, I will say that the world and you life as you live it is not balanced. There are a lot of things in the world that are out of our league. How many of us could take on a Navy Seal. Balance does not exist in the real world and for me too much balance ruins the game because I can't buy into something that is precisely made easy for me. I don't know the OD&D books like some around here but it seems obvious to me that there is no such notion anywhere near them. Exactly, nothing in life is balance. Some people are great drivers and some are really not. Few of us could handle a Navy Seal or a serious martial artist in a remotely fair fight. Lucky us most people with those skills don't pick fights with us. But as you suggested, to me it seems less about having the game imitate the real world and more about risk. Everything that is exciting and "real" in the real world involves risk or at least imagined risk. You are about to explore an abandoned tunnel. What's in there? Will it collapse? You don't know, the excitement is in the tension. If you knew that nothing bad could ever happen, few things would feel worth doing. Yeah, that is part of what bothers me about the 5E game is that there is so much healing available the risk is too low. But right now we are in the middle of a fight that might end in a TPK, but only because we have had three wondering monsters back to back to back and at my insistence and some good rolling we tracked all three sets of monsters back to their lair and (btw treasure in 5E is stingy) the DM has been making each one tougher and this time I think we got over matched. Don't know what the rest of the group will do if it is a TPK, but for me it will improve the game and if we have to roll new characters, well then we will have some skin in the game. One reason it may be a TPK is that the dice roller in roll 20 went really hot for the DM. My paladin has an AC 21 and I got hit eight times in a row. I got healed three times during that but still down to 3 HPs, now the game is exciting where before I was yawning my way through it. |
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Post by hengest on Jul 29, 2021 0:01:36 GMT -5
Yeah, that is part of what bothers me about the 5E game is that there is so much healing available the risk is too low. But right now we are in the middle of a fight that might end in a TPK, but only because we have had three wondering monsters back to back to back and at my insistence and some good rolling we tracked all three sets of monsters back to their lair and (btw treasure in 5E is stingy) the DM has been making each one tougher and this time I think we got over matched. Don't know what the rest of the group will do if it is a TPK, but for me it will improve the game and if we have to roll new characters, well then we will have some skin in the game. One reason it may be a TPK is that the dice roller in roll 20 went really hot for the DM. My paladin has an AC 21 and I got hit eight times in a row. I got healed three times during that but still down to 3 HPs, now the game is exciting where before I was yawning my way through it. These are the fights I remember, too (balance or no balance, the ones where we nearly got wiped out). I remember a 3E campaign that was really railroady and overall a bit of a slog (although I loved talking to those guys during the game). The first fight was supposed to be trivial and the other PCs were unconscious and ready to be eaten and my character barely survived. I remember it being exhilarating. The other bits of combat I barely remember. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Jul 29, 2021 0:09:05 GMT -5
Yeah, that is part of what bothers me about the 5E game is that there is so much healing available the risk is too low. But right now we are in the middle of a fight that might end in a TPK, but only because we have had three wondering monsters back to back to back and at my insistence and some good rolling we tracked all three sets of monsters back to their lair and (btw treasure in 5E is stingy) the DM has been making each one tougher and this time I think we got over matched. Don't know what the rest of the group will do if it is a TPK, but for me it will improve the game and if we have to roll new characters, well then we will have some skin in the game. One reason it may be a TPK is that the dice roller in roll 20 went really hot for the DM. My paladin has an AC 21 and I got hit eight times in a row. I got healed three times during that but still down to 3 HPs, now the game is exciting where before I was yawning my way through it. These are the fights I remember, too (balance or no balance, the ones where we nearly got wiped out). I remember a 3E campaign that was really railroady and overall a bit of a slog (although I loved talking to those guys during the game). The first fight was supposed to be trivial and the other PCs were unconscious and ready to be eaten and my character barely survived. I remember it being exhilarating. The other bits of combat I barely remember. From back in the day I remember my 8th level fighter meeting a balrog in a doorway and the balrog would have made mincemeat of the rest of the group, but as it was we wiped each other at the same time. The referee and myself both rolled double natural 20s on the same round and crited each other. |
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Post by hengest on Oct 9, 2021 22:12:56 GMT -5
3) It will take forever to draw a map.
Draw five random elements on a piece or scrap of paper. Decide how two of them are related, why they are on the same paper. Then fit the others into this story. Don't edit your thoughts, take them as they come, silly or profound. Once you account for all the things you drew, type up this story or scenario or setting. Then draw a true physical map to go with what you just wrote. Now you have a map and a game setting.
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Post by hengest on Oct 9, 2021 22:26:18 GMT -5
4) I can't make a setting that is consistent.
Generate a tiny setting in your mind. People don't experience continents and countries, they experience a village and the nearby field, their own part of a city with the garbage pits right under the high windows of the rich. While you do something else, just think of one place you can see in your mind and then write it down. That is your setting. Build out from there.
Example: you are mowing the grass. You think of a meadow where the grass and wildflowers grow high. This is your setting. Answer these questions:
Who comes here often and why?
What happens here at night?
Are there settlements close by?
What is under the ground here?
How many days' walk to get to the sea?
Do the folk here speak one tongue or many?
What is ignored here?
What has been forgotten?
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Post by hengest on Jan 8, 2022 17:03:12 GMT -5
5) I have to plan every possible thing.
Again, I don't have the experience that some do on this board. But really, every day is a combination of formulaic and familiar things and well as twists and totally novel situations. But we all handle them all the time and keep going. So really, anyone who is able to function in life should be able to improvise in a game.
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Post by hengest on Mar 27, 2024 13:54:45 GMT -5
I feel a bit silly for starting this thread, but I kind of enjoyed reviewing it.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 27, 2024 15:56:26 GMT -5
I feel a bit silly for starting this thread, but I kind of enjoyed reviewing it. It is an awesome thread, one well worth reading, especially for anyone new to old school gaming. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Mar 29, 2024 8:20:21 GMT -5
I feel a bit silly for starting this thread, but I kind of enjoyed reviewing it. No need for that! Many people feel like they can't homebrew as well as the designers. |
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Maybe you should.