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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 23, 2015 16:53:06 GMT -5
I have owned each of the rules sets over the years and I have enjoyed them for various reasons. I dig the Holmes vibe of being a little different from the rest and iirc a lead in to AD&D. The B/X rules just seem to ooze fantasy adventure in the art, fonts, and overall presentation. I enjoyed the BECMI iteration of the rules but they felt a little "too polished" for me at the time. In contrast, the RC compilation really hit all the good bits for me. Overall, I would probably go with the B/X rules being my favorite because I probably used them more than any other Classic D&D set. If there was a great idea for a "what if" product then my pick would be a compiled version of these two rule books in a nice hardcover. I don't mean just taking the contents as is and printing it but re-assembling these rules with all appropriate sections integrated together in one volume. I would buy that in an instant!
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Post by tetramorph on Jan 23, 2015 21:30:34 GMT -5
I have owned each of the rules sets over the years and I have enjoyed them for various reasons. I dig the Holmes vibe of being a little different from the rest and iirc a lead in to AD&D. The B/X rules just seem to ooze fantasy adventure in the art, fonts, and overall presentation. I enjoyed the BECMI iteration of the rules but they felt a little "too polished" for me at the time. In contrast, the RC compilation really hit all the good bits for me. Overall, I would probably go with the B/X rules being my favorite because I probably used them more than any other Classic D&D set. If there was a great idea for a "what if" product then my pick would be a compiled version of these two rule books in a nice hardcover. I don't mean just taking the contents as is and printing it but re-assembling these rules with all appropriate sections integrated together in one volume. I would buy that in an instant! You know, I really think that is what Labyrinth Lord is. It is a really great, integrated B/X ruleset. I like it a lot.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jan 23, 2015 22:51:31 GMT -5
Of the Classic sets I like Holmes the best myself and it has it own little nuances just as OD&D has its nuances. I like that, it is still a little quirky. Also there are what 8 or 10 expansions out there, although not all of them are still available. I suppose I should try to track done the extended versions of Holmes that are still available. (That would of course be a different thread )
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 24, 2015 13:52:05 GMT -5
I have owned each of the rules sets over the years and I have enjoyed them for various reasons. I dig the Holmes vibe of being a little different from the rest and iirc a lead in to AD&D. The B/X rules just seem to ooze fantasy adventure in the art, fonts, and overall presentation. I enjoyed the BECMI iteration of the rules but they felt a little "too polished" for me at the time. In contrast, the RC compilation really hit all the good bits for me. Overall, I would probably go with the B/X rules being my favorite because I probably used them more than any other Classic D&D set. If there was a great idea for a "what if" product then my pick would be a compiled version of these two rule books in a nice hardcover. I don't mean just taking the contents as is and printing it but re-assembling these rules with all appropriate sections integrated together in one volume. I would buy that in an instant! You know, I really think that is what Labyrinth Lord is. It is a really great, integrated B/X ruleset. I like it a lot. I've thought abut buying Labyrinth Lord before but I wasn't sure if I should since I have Swords & Wizardry: Complete. I can see that I need to add a copy of Labyrinth Lord to my collection. How about the Advanced Edition Companion?
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Post by tetramorph on Jan 24, 2015 14:36:36 GMT -5
The Semi-Retired Gamer, only if you want it to have a 1e feel. LL is classic B/X. They have another supplement that makes it feel more 0e. Just depends on what you want more to go for.
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Jan 25, 2015 1:11:52 GMT -5
The Semi-Retired Gamer, only if you want it to have a 1e feel. LL is classic B/X. They have another supplement that makes it feel more 0e. Just depends on what you want more to go for. That's pretty cool that they have ways to adjust LL to make it feel more like 0E or even 1E. That makes it even more interesting.
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Post by finarvyn on Jan 25, 2015 9:54:25 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I assume that "Classic" does not include OD&D. I sort of like the Moldvay/Cook version of B/X. Two rulebooks, both pretty thin and easy to use. I like the fact that B/X goes higher than 3rd level, which is probably my only objection to Holmes. (I know that others have extended Holmes, but I assume the disucssion is more about "pure" rules sets and not homebrew expansions.) Menzer's B/X books are probably better written, but they include lots of "how to play" material which is just filler since I already know how to play. So, I'd pick Moldvay/Cook B/X as my top Classic D&D rules set. However, the single best RPG book ever is probably the Rules Cyclopedia because (1) it's a durable hardback and (2) it has rules for everything. A RC written for levels 1-14 would be even more ultimate, if such a tome existed.
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Post by Admin Pete on Jan 26, 2015 23:29:15 GMT -5
Disclaimer: I assume that "Classic" does not include OD&D. I sort of like the Moldvay/Cook version of B/X. Two rulebooks, both pretty thin and easy to use. I like the fact that B/X goes higher than 3rd level, which is probably my only objection to Holmes. (I know that others have extended Holmes, but I assume the disucssion is more about "pure" rules sets and not homebrew expansions.) Menzer's B/X books are probably better written, but they include lots of "how to play" material which is just filler since I already know how to play. So, I'd pick Moldvay/Cook B/X as my top Classic D&D rules set. However, the single best RPG book ever is probably the Rules Cyclopedia because (1) it's a durable hardback and (2) it has rules for everything. A RC written for levels 1-14 would be even more ultimate, if such a tome existed. Well to me, "Classic" does not include OD&D. So for this board that is the assumption! Of course YMMV! And yes I agree the Rules Cyclopedia is sweet! One reason I like the reorganized OD&D versions that are out in the wild.
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Post by Mr Darke on Feb 2, 2015 20:34:49 GMT -5
I love RC D&D but have become very fond of BFRPG and S&W as of late.
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Post by waysoftheearth on Feb 4, 2015 20:08:30 GMT -5
I've thought abut buying Labyrinth Lord before but I wasn't sure if I should since I have Swords & Wizardry: Complete. I think S&W:Complete is nearer to AD&D than to any other edition, so it's quite different to LL. My own pick of the classics is Holmes; it's a neat picture of OD&D's dungeon exploration game and even helps us to understand some of the original's quirks
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 5, 2015 6:03:07 GMT -5
I've thought abut buying Labyrinth Lord before but I wasn't sure if I should since I have Swords & Wizardry: Complete. I think S&W:Complete is nearer to AD&D than to any other edition, so it's quite different to LL. My own pick of the classics is Holmes; it's a neat picture of OD&D's dungeon exploration game and even helps us to understand some of the original's quirks Good info! I will definitely get LL now.
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Post by Vile Traveller on Feb 11, 2015 4:19:28 GMT -5
B/X used to be my "go-to" for Classic D&D but now I'm torn between that and Holmes. To emphasise my impartiality I even set up a B/X Facebook page to balance the Holmes page I now administer!
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Post by tetramorph on Feb 11, 2015 12:51:44 GMT -5
I like the B/X modifier system. I know, I know, that is not very OS/0e of me!
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Post by Vile Traveller on Feb 12, 2015 1:00:06 GMT -5
Not at all, I think it's quite good, too. I think I could largely run Holmes/LBB OD&D without stats, although players like them because they are handy character descriptors. But later games tended to inflate the importance of ability scores over skill (not just D&D, same goes for Traveller and GURPS). By skill I don't just mean skill systems but skill as represented by character levels in D&D. B/X with ts +1 to +3 range about hits the sweet spot, unfortunately it doesn't scale well and it's not integrated with the way monsters work. But I do like the elegant simplicity of it.
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Post by merias on Feb 12, 2015 15:28:17 GMT -5
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Feb 12, 2015 20:16:04 GMT -5
That sounds pretty great!
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Post by libertad on Feb 15, 2015 15:09:32 GMT -5
As far as official Editions go, I really dig the Rules Cyclopedia. But when it comes to retroclones I love Labyrinth Lord for all the support it has in 3rd Party Products.
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Post by cadriel on Mar 7, 2015 12:39:02 GMT -5
I like B/X just fine, having run it successfully for a spell. But I find that I like the way Holmes works for spellcasters a lot better, from the way Intelligence works to the spell descriptions to the scroll rule. And I like the "lighter" ability score bonuses from Holmes. So I'm currently running Holmes Basic, but with variable weapon damage and initiative from B/X, and a Strength damage bonus to adjust things (similar to the Holmes Con bonuses). Half the PCs are ported over from B/X with no issues. And I use the Expert rulebook for everything not covered in Holmes. Plus there are plenty of house rules I've built up. So it's a hybrid at this point.
if I had to use one, I'd pick the Rules Cyclopedia, because I'd like to toy with weapon mastery and domain rulership at higher levels. I ran this back at the end of high school, but the campaign didn't last very long.
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Post by robjn on Mar 8, 2015 14:14:52 GMT -5
I have owned each of the rules sets over the years and I have enjoyed them for various reasons. I dig the Holmes vibe of being a little different from the rest and iirc a lead in to AD&D. The B/X rules just seem to ooze fantasy adventure in the art, fonts, and overall presentation. I enjoyed the BECMI iteration of the rules but they felt a little "too polished" for me at the time. In contrast, the RC compilation really hit all the good bits for me. Overall, I would probably go with the B/X rules being my favorite because I probably used them more than any other Classic D&D set. If there was a great idea for a "what if" product then my pick would be a compiled version of these two rule books in a nice hardcover. I don't mean just taking the contents as is and printing it but re-assembling these rules with all appropriate sections integrated together in one volume. I would buy that in an instant! I'm going to throw my vote in for BECMI/RC D&D. I pretty much learned the finer points of gaming through the boxed sets, bought up the compiled rules in Cyclopedic form when I actually had my own money, back in high school. It's the iteration I know the best, and am most comfortable DMing.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Mar 17, 2015 21:32:59 GMT -5
I started with moldvay/cook B/X so that would be my preferred. But the Muenster edition would be a close second.
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 30, 2015 21:45:26 GMT -5
I had Lulu make me a Mythical Black Book, which is about as good as it gets for me. It was $25 US, but like $8 of that was shipping or something. The quality is fair. It will last at the table. if I had it to do again, I would have made it with semi-gloss vellum pages.
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Post by finarvyn on Mar 31, 2015 5:14:52 GMT -5
I started with moldvay/cook B/X so that would be my preferred. But the Muenster edition would be a close second. What is the Muenster edition? Is this a homebrew version of the game?
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Post by finarvyn on Mar 31, 2015 5:17:25 GMT -5
I had Lulu make me a Mythical Black Book, which is about as good as it gets for me. It was $25 US, but like $8 of that was shipping or something. The quality is fair. It will last at the table. if I had it to do again, I would have made it with semi-gloss vellum pages. What is the Mythical Black Book? The only "Black Book" D&D I can recall is the level 1-5 version which was in the oversized boxed sets. (I think it's disucssed on DF in a few threads there.) Is that the one of which you speak, and if so what makes it better than other versions?
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Post by scottanderson on Mar 31, 2015 8:29:35 GMT -5
The Mythical Black Book is a hardcover which contains the combined PDFs of B and X. It's not a TSR game or a WOTC re-release, but boy howdy, it sure feels like a real TSR book. I don't know who made the first one or who designed the cover.
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Post by bestialwarlust on Mar 31, 2015 10:35:18 GMT -5
I started with moldvay/cook B/X so that would be my preferred. But the Muenster edition would be a close second. What is the Muenster edition? Is this a homebrew version of the game? Hehe didn't noticed I did that. That's the top super secret Mentzer version I have no idea how Mentzer became Muenster......
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Post by The Red Baron on Mar 31, 2015 23:37:36 GMT -5
I really dig that each game has its own unique vibe and flavor, yet the rules are almost interchangeable.
I've played ad&d the most, and I personally enjoy the 3LBBs the most, but I think Moldvay surpasses all other classic rulesets (and all modern ones as well) as a elegant, eloquent, rule system.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 1, 2015 8:46:28 GMT -5
Whereas I see them all as hugely different.
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Post by makofan on Apr 14, 2015 8:13:51 GMT -5
My love will always be AD&D first with all its quirkiness, but Labyrinth Lord seems to be the sweet spot for most of my players
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Post by The Red Baron on Apr 14, 2015 10:53:19 GMT -5
Whereas I see them all as hugely different. I should clarify that. There are certainly major rule changes that affect both game-play and tone, but I know pretty much exactly what the changes are and how they impact the game. If you gave me holmes basic, I could run ad&d, just by winging the necessary changes on the fly; Or if you gave me the PHB and DMG I could run od&d with them just by making the necessary changes.
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Post by fearghus on Jul 14, 2015 23:25:16 GMT -5
Whatever version I can play at any given point in time. Worst part about enjoying the earlier versions is there is so much talk about them and no one actually playing.
Understand that my wife insists I am grumpy, and my best friend says I am too cynical.
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