Demons for Original Edition (not following Eldrich Wizardry)

[tetramorph]

Hey guys, I posted this a while back over on ODD74. It may get more feedback over here.

I have never been satisfied with the demons of EW, and the 1e MM distinction between demons/devils does not give me either the original edition feel, or engage the classical legendaria I want to engage in my campaigns (one a kind of fantastical Christendom, the other a B-movie Gonzo-fest). So I devised the following for my campaigns.

DEMONS

Demons are chaotic but obsessively hierarchical and increasingly concerned with authority and power in direct relation to their own (HD). They will ask who characters are and demand their names and credentials, if they have any authority and, if so, whose. Knowing a demon’s true name is dangerous but grants power over them. Naming the demon doubles the chance to Affect Unholy by halving the required number. They hate this and will attack if they can. If a demon’s name is invoked there is a 10% per HD chance that the demon will manifest. If they do, they will immediately attack or attempt to possess the invoker, depending upon whether they were at the time in their material or immaterial form. PC’s make a ST against such possession, applying WIS modifiers. Exorcism means that a demon has been stripped from its physical manifestation or expelled from a host body. After one full turn of recovery, physically defeated or exorcised demons may attempt to manifest physically again or possess a new host on a successful ST. Manifestation, possession and magic are the only things demons may attempt in their immaterial form. If they fail they are immediately damned. Damnation means that a demon has been imprisoned in hell with no return.

Referee imagines description of physical manifestations. In general, demons will manifest as tall in feet as their HD. Their bodies may be combinations of various different beasts, e.g., glowing red eyes within a goat’s head with bullhorns atop a gorilla body with tiger claws, bat wings, spiked lizard tail and cloven hooves, etc.

Number appearing corresponds to that of men. If a demonic stronghold is encountered, follow the description for Evil High Priests. AC ranges from 8-0 inversely to HD. Move as vampires (12/18). HD range from 1-9+. Roll d10 when randomly encountered. 1-9 indicates HD. If a 10 is rolled, reroll to determine 10-19 HD (10 if “0” rolled again). Percent found in lair ranges from 50%-10% decreasing in increments of 5% in relation to HD range. Treasure Type ranges in the following way:

• HD9+ = H
• HD8-7 = A
• HD6-4 = F
• HD3-2 = B
• HD1 = 1d6 gp

Demons are more resistant to magic than average monsters and therefore follow the “fighting-man” ST progression. Each turn demons have a 10% per HD chance of summoning 1d6 number of additional demons. Referee rolls for these randomly as described.

Demons deploy the following spells cumulatively by HD:

1. Darkness
2. Fear
3. Detect law
4. Dispel magic
5. Telekinesis
6. Teleport
7. Curse
8. Animate dead
9. Dimension door

Demons may have multiple attacks. Use of a spell counts as one such attack.

HD	# attacks	attack types
9+	5	Wings and below*
7-8	4	Horns and below
4-6	3	Spike-tail and below
2-3	2	Claws and Bite
1	1	normal

*9+ also have breath-weapon as red dragon, counting as all but magical attacks. Roll as per dragon for chance of use.

NOTE: I call "turn undead," "affect unholy" in my campaigns, because I map demon HD to the various undead and call the over-arching category "unholy." Turn = exorcise, dispel = darn.

I would love to read any constructive comments. And if you think you could find it useful for your own campaigns, and how, I would love to read about that too.

[bestialwarlust]

This is a nice alternative. A nice quick way to roll up a random demon. What about magic and/or blessed weapons to hit them? What about if they aren't it with a magic or blessed weapon they can regenerate the damage at double the amount a troll? Are you going with negative AC ?, For my games I stick with the LBB's no AC lower than 2. 

[tetramorph]

bestialwarlust, I like it. I think I wouldn't make them impervious to normal weapons, just in general, because I feel like they get pretty high-powered pretty quickly. But I could see adding such an ability to one I rolled up using the above.

All I mean by AC lower than 2 is that they are so magical that they have the equivalent of magical armor without armor. So, if you want to go strict BTB, you would subtract a relative amount from the attackers to hit roll (-1 for my AC 1 or -2 for my AC 0). But I don't like having to work the math that way so in my games I just take the magic armor or abilities and subtract it from the PC's or creature's regular AC. That is just what I am used to, and, because the math is the same, I don't feel that too much is lost.

[tetramorph]

The more I think about your point, bestialwarlust, the more I like it.

How about 4+ impervious to normal weapons (only magic and silver).

8+ only magical weapons.

[bestialwarlust]

That would be a good way to break it up. At 4 you have "Heroic" tier then 8+ they represent "super-heroic"

[finarvyn]

May 29, 2015 17:21:15 GMT -5 tetramorph said:

I call "turn undead," "affect unholy" in my campaigns, because I map demon HD to the various undead and call the over-arching category "unholy." Turn = exorcise, dispel = darn.

I like the term "turn undead" for game-history reasons (I've used the term for 40 years and my brain hates change) but, like you, I've allowed it to work against demons as well. In fact, if my memory isn't totally crocked I think that some old GM screen (the JG one??) may have demons on the "turn undead" chart.

By the way -- I remember reading and liking your post on this on the OD&D Discussion boards. I can't recall if I replied or not, but I like what you did!

[bestialwarlust]

Oct 11, 2015 8:55:00 GMT -5 finarvyn said:

May 29, 2015 17:21:15 GMT -5 tetramorph said:

I call "turn undead," "affect unholy" in my campaigns, because I map demon HD to the various undead and call the over-arching category "unholy." Turn = exorcise, dispel = darn.

I like the term "turn undead" for game-history reasons (I've used the term for 40 years and my brain hates change) but, like you, I've allowed it to work against demons as well. In fact, if my memory isn't totally crocked I think that some old GM screen (the JG one??) may have demons on the "turn undead" chart.

By the way -- I remember reading and liking your post on this on the OD&D Discussion boards. I can't recall if I replied or not, but I like what you did!

In Gary's latter work of optional house rules , most refer to it as 1st edition AD&D ,  if I remember right you would use the Turn Undead to affect demons when your cleric reached higher levels. I think it was 9th level but I'll have to look that up to verify.

[The Archivist]

I am not into demons IMC, but this is an excellent and thought provoking thread.

[tetramorph]

The Archivist, I read you.

Thanks for the words!

[hengest]

I'm not sure this would go with the flavor of either of your campaigns, tetramorph, but I might tweak this for myself by adding a 1/2 hit die demon, 6" tall in your system. What I like about your text is that demons sound like workplace bullies. These mini-demons would be the lowest-ranking demons around, and would size themselves up against zero-levels simply by HP. They have no spells, but do have an intuitive "Sense present HP" ability. If a zero-level's HP total at present is greater than the demon's, it acts like a toady. Equal, it ignores the potential target.  Greater, it attacks verbally with anything it can muster, and flees if struck.  

These little guys could even be known to regular folks, and the way to handle them is to get someone stronger (a huge 4 hp friend) to swat them.  

To PCs they wouldn't be any threat, and they'll flee combat.  But I don't know, they could easily be used for flavor without adding a lot of magic, since they have none.  Such a creature is asleep in a tomb that the PCs loot, feels itself outclassed, and starts making things up to curry favor.  I can show you this, I can show you that, this is gonna be great...a kind of unhelpful NPC, if the PCs accept it.  Will immediately turn on anyone if it can get hooked up with someone more powerful (demon or not).  

In general, though, I quite like your treatment.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

This thread is a fascinating read and I'm working on adding more to it.

[Crimhthan The Great]

Feb 26, 2023 18:48:04 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

This thread is a fascinating read and I'm working on adding more to it.

This is an oldie, but a goodie. I don't use demons myself, but this is a great how to thread.