Magic missile or not to magic missile that is the question!

[bestialwarlust]

So this maybe reading more into the the rules than anything else. One of the many things I like about OD&D is that magic missile hasn't made an appearance yet. Now there's nothing wrong with the spell or having it in game but it seems to set a precedence. Damage dealing attack spells don't begin until 3rd level. With that in mind spell creation and design have a sort of frame work.

So when designing new spells for NPC's or players magic user creating their own this seems a good way to create a rough guideline. So how do others handle it? Do you have MM in your games? have you kept it out? or changed the spell level?

[merctime]

You bring up a really, really good point about damage spells at 3rd level, I think.

I'm no "D&D scholar" or anything... But these days I like to pay attention to what might go down at the table. If I were to add spells into the game, whether I as the ref do it or I allow my players too, I've been thinking of this very 3rd level damage thing to guide me. I probably won't go damage spells until then, or possibly 2nd for very minor ones.

I'd be all over shield and tenser's floating disc, though.

Granted, if my players find a wand of fireballs on the first level of the dungeon... I'll roll with that and be just fine. That's a lucky, special occurrence that doesn't permanently change the power level of the class. Sure, it's powerful... Maybe even a lot... But for how long?

Besides, Sleep is 10 Times the spell Magic Missile is

[tetramorph]

I've had a recent turn against MM.

With MM gone, sleep becomes the most obvious, powerful, first lvl spell. It caused MUs to have to think differently. They are not going to deal damage like other classes until higher in lvl. And then they will need to worry about area and possible backfires, etc.

But sleep and charm have the potential to take out enemies that can create interesting moments for role play.

And, finally, it just feels more like a classic wizard from the legendaria.

That said, I have MM in my Dun Kells campaign. I assume against it for Gonzoland.

[finarvyn]

I used to not allow MM but now I've sort of softened to it. Why shouldn't wizards get to deal damage, too? A fighter gets to swing his sword every round but a magic-user only gets to do cool stuff a couple of times before he's done.

Here's a variant on the spell: When you cast MM you get three missiles for your spell, but can only cast one per round. Still auto hit, but it allows the magic-user to do something for three rounds in a row.

[bestialwarlust]

I don't mind MM, but it seems to generate the mentality that if you're not doing damage in combat your useless. I think by not having MM it can encourage player creativity and outside of the box thinking.



Say the fighter is engaged with the evil villain, player of the MU "I look around the room is there a large curtain or tapestry?" The referee thinking for a moment "sure there are several what did you have in mind?", "I don't have any spells to blast this guy to smithereens so can I grab one of the tapestries and throw it at his head this should blind and distract him giving the fighter some sort of advantage?" 

Things like that or maybe the magic user just stands out of reach waving his arms in the air spouting out arcane words and phrases to distract the opponent into thinking some big spell is on the way.......

One of the games I run is Savage Worlds and it has what it calls tricks, things you can do in combat that can contribute but don't necessarily deal damage. OD&D can easily have the same sort of tricks. No rules needed for it.

[merctime]

I'm in agreement with Bestialwarlust.

Another point is that there isn't anything stopping the M-U from doing support damage from flung oil and/or daggers. Not to mention any wands found, which I personally like to place as early treasures.

And, besides... I think the lower levels of M-U should be hard; They teach cautious, intelligent play, that will serve that player mightily if he attains even moderate levels for his M-U and thus becomes a real power to contend with. I'm personally just fine with low level M-U's starting of seemingly 'weak' and then becoming explosively powerful in relatively short order... Pretty much passing over the other classes in terms of punch.

I wouldn't be against Magic Missile being a 3rd level spell, and not requiring a hit roll, but also starting out with two missiles and gaining more as written.

EDIT:  By the way, Bestial... Love the new avatar!    And I was finally able to Exalt you from my previous desire to do so.  Not possible from my phone!  

[Admin Pete]

May 22, 2015 20:04:57 GMT -5 finarvyn said:

I used to not allow MM but now I've sort of softened to it. Why shouldn't wizards get to deal damage, too? A fighter gets to swing his sword every round but a magic-user only gets to do cool stuff a couple of times before he's done.

Here's a variant on the spell: When you cast MM you get three missiles for your spell, but can only cast one per round. Still auto hit, but it allows the magic-user to do something for three rounds in a row.

I have never been a MM fan, but I like this idea and I may go with a variation of this and something someone else said, when I start the next campaign.

[Morose]

May 22, 2015 0:55:20 GMT -5 merctime said:

You bring up a really, really good point about damage spells at 3rd level, I think.

I'm no "D&D scholar" or anything... But these days I like to pay attention to what might go down at the table. If I were to add spells into the game, whether I as the ref do it or I allow my players too, I've been thinking of this very 3rd level damage thing to guide me. I probably won't go damage spells until then, or possibly 2nd for very minor ones.

I'd be all over shield and tenser's floating disc, though.

Granted, if my players find a wand of fireballs on the first level of the dungeon... I'll roll with that and be just fine. That's a lucky, special occurrence that doesn't permanently change the power level of the class. Sure, it's powerful... Maybe even a lot... But for how long?

Besides, Sleep is 10 Times the spell Magic Missile is

May 22, 2015 20:04:57 GMT -5 finarvyn said:

I used to not allow MM but now I've sort of softened to it. Why shouldn't wizards get to deal damage, too? A fighter gets to swing his sword every round but a magic-user only gets to do cool stuff a couple of times before he's done.

Here's a variant on the spell: When you cast MM you get three missiles for your spell, but can only cast one per round. Still auto hit, but it allows the magic-user to do something for three rounds in a row.

I would combine these, no Magic Missile as a first level spell. I would make it a 3rd level spell and then do the variant starting at three missiles cast at one per round and then increasing one missile per level, but one shot per round until all the missiles are gone.