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Post by raikenclw on Feb 2, 2021 20:53:34 GMT -5
I love post-apocalyptic fiction. As do I and I believe that D&D implies a post-apocalyptic world. I remember reading somewhere - many, many years ago - that Gygax justified gold coins as the setting's principle means of exchange due to these being found as the principle component of treasure hoards buried in lost labyrinths. It was likened to the contents of the robbed tombs of ancient civilizations appearing on the open market. NOTE: This may have actually been text from the original DM's Guide, but I can't swear to that.
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Post by Admin Pete on Feb 4, 2021 18:47:57 GMT -5
As do I and I believe that D&D implies a post-apocalyptic world. I remember reading somewhere - many, many years ago - that Gygax justified gold coins as the setting's principle means of exchange due to these being found as the principle component of treasure hoards buried in lost labyrinths. It was likened to the contents of the robbed tombs of ancient civilizations appearing on the open market. NOTE: This may have actually been text from the original DM's Guide, but I can't swear to that. That does sound familiar and that may be where it comes from, but it has been quite a while since I read the DMG in any detail.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:12:30 GMT -5
OK, so there is the DungeonPunk Manifesto, then the DungeonPunk Counter-Manifesto and then eldrad's Yet Another DUNGEONPUNK RPG MANIFESTO. Here in the next several posts are my replies to all three, first let's look at The DungeonPunk Manifesto "so-called'. 1. Better living through adventure. Really, someone thinks that statement is Dungeonpunk? Go figure! Where is the rebel in that statement. Sounds more like it was written by an accountant (no offense to accountants, but they are not the people who go off to adventure).
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:12:48 GMT -5
2. Be an intepid adventurer and explorer first, a hack and slash tourist second.
Again, is this dungeonpunk, I think not. Now I will agree that an intepid adventurer and explorer is old school and the hack and slash tourist is 13 year old boy. But neither one is dungeonpunk.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:13:05 GMT -5
3. Experience > Experience Points
Ok now we have a tautology, nothing dungeonpunk about that. Not off to a good start at all.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:14:10 GMT -5
4. Warrior = drummer, Sorcerer = guitar player, Rogue bass player. Everybody sings.
Here is where we find out what went wrong with this manifesto. This was written by someone who never played old school, someone who is trying to be clever, without knowing any of the history they are trying to riff off of. Sorry a new school newbie is not dungeonpunk and will never learn enough to make that break. You have to understand something to rebel against it and the writer of this obviously doesn't understand the old school dungeon.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:14:30 GMT -5
5. A good encounter should be like an awesome 7" single; a great adventure should be like a secret $5 warehouse show; the best campaigns should be like an epic tour.
Poor guy cribbing notes from his betters. Awesome 7" singles were before your day, you've never been to a secret warehouse show and epic tours were before your day. You had to have been there and you need to go experience life before you try to go dungeonpunk. You cannot get there from what others have done, get out of your hovel and experience life yourself.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:14:45 GMT -5
6. You are your class, but your class is not you.
Sorry, sounds like new age gibberish from back in the 80's.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:15:05 GMT -5
7. There's no such thing as an inherently evil orc.
Oh you can play that way sure, but that is not dungeonpunk. In dungeonpunk the orc would be even more evil, not less.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:15:24 GMT -5
8. A sword and a backpack are your best friends.
That is neither old school nor is it dungeonpunk, that is just wimpy platitudes. Dungeonpunk would be the three hidden knives you carry for when your sword fails you and you go to one of your backup plans, yea plans, you have to have more than one or two.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:16:01 GMT -5
9. D.I.Y.: Dungeoncrawl It Yourself.
That is milquetoast middle America, nothing rebel about that statement.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:17:31 GMT -5
10. Your character sheet and your dice are personal totems. Treat them as such.
NO! This not remotely dungeon punk. This is the province of new school players being led from place to place by the nose as they worship their character sheet and their dice. That is why they have to be led from place to place, they never focused on the game to begin with. Sheesh!
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:17:50 GMT -5
11. Adventure and story trump the rules.
Fxxk the rules, Fxxk the scripted stories and Fxxk canned adventures make your own adventure.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:18:43 GMT -5
12. In fact, when in doubt, SCREW the rules.
This proves even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, not that this guy knows enough to SCREW the rules. This so called manifesto was written by someone who would be lost without the rules.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:19:22 GMT -5
Next up is the DungeonPunk Counter-Manifesto
1. If it's in a Dungeon and needs your help, it's a trap.
Well that is the most likely possibility; however, it is also just as likely that this is a future best friend that turns out to be that one person or creature that won't betray you. Yeah, there is always one, but you have to recognize them or you forfeit them. Not giving help can be a trap too! This is more old school than anything else.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:19:43 GMT -5
2. Use the environment. That's what it's there for.
That's not really dungeonpunk, that is just old school.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:19:56 GMT -5
3. Them fearing you is half the battle. You'd better look the part, punk.
Yes, that is true, but it is not dungeonpunk, it is old school, basic rudimentary game play.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:20:10 GMT -5
4. The Rules are your friend, as is the weapon of your choice. Never forget that.
What world is this guy living in? The Rules are not your friend, the rules are cold and unforgiving, not warm and fuzzy! If you are a fighter, your magic sword and magic armor are your friends, if you are a cleric your don't have friends you are the friend and mages, well everybody hates the mage and we all use him as best we can.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:20:26 GMT -5
5. The Dungeon Master isn't your friend. And shouldn't be.
This true of old school and dungeonpunk. If the DM is your friend you are playing new school and after 10 years of play, you won't have learned a thing and won't be any better player than you were on day one.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:20:50 GMT -5
6. If you can't beat it alone, cooperate with the pack. Nothing's changing? Flee.
Now this one is dungeonpunk.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:21:35 GMT -5
7. It's not called an adventure, it's called a sandbox. The sandbox is not your friend.
This!! Don't forget this!
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:21:48 GMT -5
8. Everything comes with a price. If the price is right, do it.
This is old school and dungeonpunk. This is where full overlap between the two occurs.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:22:19 GMT -5
9. Trust the thief to do his job. It will also mean he's stealing from you. If you are the thief, deny that.
In old school and dungeonpunk, never, ever, ever trust the thief. If you trust the thief, you are definitely playing new school.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:22:37 GMT -5
10. Trust the fighter to do his job. If you're the fighter: do your job.
Translation, don't allow the cowards in your group to play fighters. You can never trust a coward, let the cowards play the thief, that way you will not forget that they cannot be trusted.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:22:54 GMT -5
11. Be nice to the magic-user, he might get powerful (if he lives). If you're the magic-user, write down their names now, misdiret the first balls later.
This is for a new school game. Don't play a new school game. Translation, don't allow the cowards in your group to play magic-users. You can never trust a coward, let the cowards play the thief, that way you will not forget that they cannot be trusted.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:23:08 GMT -5
12. Believe! If you're the cleric: make them.
If you are the cleric you are the most versatile character, be wise and make yourself indispensible to the group. Make them want to protect you.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:23:21 GMT -5
13. Remember: demi-humans might not have a soul.
This is not old school, new school or dungeonpunk, it just is.
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:23:38 GMT -5
14. Your life being cheap doesn't mean they shouldn't pay.
He left out a phrase, "dearly for it" it should should say "Your life being cheap doesn't mean they shouldn't pay dearly for it."
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:23:50 GMT -5
15. And it's all right, if you can get away with it.
Yeah, wise words "Don't get caught!!"
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Post by dilvish on Feb 4, 2021 21:24:03 GMT -5
16. You owe no one.
Wrong, it should read "Do your best to owe no one, and do your best to make sure they owe you."
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