Found elsewhere

[Admin Pete]

A new school poster in a post directed at the OSR,

1. Posts a list of all the things he wants to see - pretty much all of which is out there in one form or another per other posters.
2. Then all of the things he does not want to see, which pretty much boils down to any rule found in a TSR product.
3. Then stuff he wants to see put to use.

He takes a lot of heat for the first section, a little heat for the second section above and then the third section reveals that he is a massive 4E fan.

He says, " I'm convinced that OSR stands for 'Old School Reprints' if it comes from WotC and 'Old School Regurgitation' if it comes from anyone else."
He says, "I'd love to see OSR mean Old School Reinvogoration or Reimagining, let's do it!"

And:

He says "Stop being 'incestuous'. The OSR Blogosphere, and the OSR devs, are all this one big, odd, weird clique, and their ideas are now getting incestuous, in that 'new ideas' just don't branch out the family tree very much at all. The gene code of ideas is running in a straight line. Expand horizons."

He takes a lot of heat for this post above also.
Another poster refers to:

OSR products based on 5E.

I really don't know what to make of all of the above. In my mind if you define the OSR so broadly as to include WotC and 5E you have made the term OSR even more meaningless than it already was/was becoming.

I do not consider myself part of the OSR because I never stopped playing OD&D and moved on to other versions. OD&D has always been my go to first choice and even the few times I played AD&D, I was pretty much just playing OD&D with enough window dressing to make the players happy, so IMO I am not restoring or reviving anything I am just playing what I have also played in the way that I have always played it - striving to bring in new and different things and keep the game alive and fresh.


Another reason I do not consider myself part of the OSR is that it is such a moving target. I though the OSR was at some level supposed to be promoting old school DIY gaminmg. That does not seem to be what most people on the internet at large think of as OSR anymore.


Therefore with no insult intended to anyone, if I like what you do and consider you to be old school, then I personally do not think of you as being part of the OSR, I have a much higher opinion of you that that. That pretty much encompasses all the members here, all of our resident designers/writers  and quite a few others outside this forum that I would love to have as members. I think of you as just OS - Old School, no third or more words needed.

[captaincrumbcake]

ehh...


I don't particularly like the phrase Old School, anyway.

Just call me a Classic* gamer.



* Like a '53 corvette, '57 chevy with a flathead, or '64 mustang. 

[Admin Pete]

May 17, 2016 16:03:49 GMT -5 captaincrumbcake said:

ehh...


I don't particularly like the phrase Old School, anyway.

Just call me a Classic* gamer.



* Like a '53 corvette, '57 chevy with a flathead, or '64 mustang. 

Well I could just shorten it to "Old".

[finarvyn]

Always a tough topic because what one person likes in a game might be the opposite of what another person likes in a game. I think that the whole "old school" thing is worn as a badge of honor by many but at the same time it can be perceived as insulting to those who prefer newer versions of the game.

It's not surprising to me that a 4E gamer would presume that all "old school" materials must be a retread because it's highly possible that he has never played the older stuff, although one who has played earlier editions (such as OD&D) know that much of the stuff out there is as new and fresh as old Judges Guild products were when they were first released in the 1970's.

I'd say that the poster of those comments just likes to snipe on people and I would probably avoid responding in that thread. All it can do is lead to more bickering.

[Admin Pete]

May 18, 2016 7:52:30 GMT -5 finarvyn said:

Always a tough topic because what one person likes in a game might be the opposite of what another person likes in a game. I think that the whole "old school" thing is worn as a badge of honor by many but at the same time it can be perceived as insulting to those who prefer newer versions of the game.

It's not surprising to me that a 4E gamer would presume that all "old school" materials must be a retread because it's highly possible that he has never played the older stuff, although one who has played earlier editions (such as OD&D) know that much of the stuff out there is as new and fresh as old Judges Guild products were when they were first released in the 1970's.

I'd say that the poster of those comments just likes to snipe on people and I would probably avoid responding in that thread. All it can do is lead to more bickering.

finarvyn I don't have an account on that forum, therefore I never post there, but I browse now and then. Most of what I posted above was to establish the context of the comments. I was more interested in their defining the "OSR" as including WotC and 5E and how twisted the thinking would have to be to think that WotC is part of the "OSR". I thought that was rather mind boggling and that it really renders the term "OSR" as completely meaningless if that is how broad the general gaming community defines it.

[mormonyoyoman]

You mean I've been doing it wrongly and it DOESN'T stand for Old Senile Ramblings?

[Admin Pete]

May 18, 2016 8:23:24 GMT -5 mormonyoyoman said:

You mean I've been doing it wrongly and it DOESN'T stand for Old Senile Ramblings?

No, I am beginning to think you have it right ...

[Necromancer]

Well...

Defining OSR seems to come with a difficulty of almost epic proportions, so I have no intentions of entering that conversational tomb of horrors...

Nevertheless, I fully understand persons like Admin Pete not feeling a part of the OSR movement since he and others never stopped playing OD&D in favour of other editions in the first place.

Personally, I can still see the term as potentially useful (even though slightly troublesome in certain aspects) in a couple of ways. I think it might be a valid label for people starting out back in the day with OD&D and then moving on to other editions or other games before returning to OD&D, or for people starting out with other editions or other games before searching for the roots of roleplaying ending up with the games produced in the 70's (alternatively their simulacra). I also think it can be useful as a label to describe the vaguely defined "movement" focused on this renewed interest for OD&D (and possibly other early RPG's), and perhaps in particular as a label for all these games, modules and supplements produced now as some sort of tribute alternatively continuation of the original game(s) - all the retroclones and whatnot.

Applying the OSR label to D&D 5e and WotC seems quite bizarre to me, though. Sure, from what I understand 5e is in some ways closer to the earlier editions of the game compared to 4e, and I don't think it's impossible that the relative success and attention the OSR movement and its associated products have gained affected the designers behind 5e. But I hardly see how that could qualify it as OSR no matter how you define the term, without diluting it to the extent of bland pointlessness.

[Necromancer]

Also, generally I have no need to label myself as anything, really, as I think labels tend to be somewhat limiting, but I think Admin Pete is quite right - there is a distinction to be made between "Old School Renaissance" and "Old School".

[Admin Pete]

I agree with both of Necromancer 's posts above, I think he states it quite well.



Again this is not about trying to define the OSR -since there are as many definitions as there are members on all of the main old school forums and blogs.  For me the relevant part is that people think WotC is part of the OSR when the OSR was formed in rebellion against and in defiance of WotC. Unless of course we are rewriting the history of the last 10-12 years or so.

[mormonyoyoman]

We may not rewrite the past decade of WotC, but I do believe the movement for GM rulings vs Rules Out the Wazoo, has rewritten and is rewriting the next decade of rolegaming. 5e is a clear admission of going back to the models which worked.