The Perilous Dreamers First Dungeon (a look back to winter 75-76)

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Back in Sept of 1975 I started playing D&D, first background from some other posts I have made:

bitd (Sept 75) when my friend brought the game with him to college from high school, he had been reffing for about 17 months and had run only outdoor wilderness campaigns and over the next four years continued to run more of the same. He started me off reffing fairly quickly, as I was the first person since he started playing that wanted to ref. Over that four years I reffed most of the time (80-85% as a guess)as he much preferred to play and only reffed now and then so I could play. As soon as I started reading the rules, I saw the part about dungeons and with nothing else to go by started creating them. We probably spent about 35% of our time in dungeons from that point.

My friend never created new monsters or new magic items or new anything else, those were things I did. The other 12-28/30 players never looked at the rules at all, so it all was pretty new for them for a long time anyway, but I often wished he would make up something new that wasn't in the books when I played.

He never did run a dungeon. So it was a long time before I ever played in a dungeon.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

In college I carried a full course load and worked. I did not have much in the way of prep time. I once used as my prep 12 quotes, that I chose because I like the quote and then I reffed a 14 hour game for 20 players. The only prep was the quotes, I told the players where they were and the map was created on the file as they traveled after picking a direction. I gave them several different rumors and they picked on. Each rumor was something that I thought I could build something from the quotes. If they picked one rumor I would use the quotes one way and another rumor another way. They traveled across a desert to some ruins near an oasis. They entered the ruins, all along the way their decisions of created the map as they went and as I described where they were going.

I said 12, but it turns out when I found the sheet of quotes that I used it was nine(9) not 12.

My first dungeon, beyond finding a map and traveling a few weeks out into a desert to some old ruins, was created on the fly as we played, inspired as we went from a quote craved into the rock as they traveled around through the underground world. It was a series of mental puzzles and we played two back to back 14 hours game sessions going through it. There were no deaths; however, they were within moments of TPK on three occasions during this game session, although they did not realize it until they were out of it, then they had a few moments of panic. There was no treasure aside from the satisfaction of completing it and they talked about it for weeks.

I looked up the quotes during December of 1975 during Christmas break and brought them back to college in Athens, Ohio and this was the first game I ran for the new year in January of 1976 and this was the first dungeon I tried. I did not follow the example in the rules at all, but when off on this entirely different tangent.

Each of the nine quotes was carved into rock, and they could have explored the areas in any order. When they finally came out above ground they were miles from the oasis and the ruins. I have used ruins from the very beginning. Also an oasis is something that has reoccurred in my games quite a bit, now that I think of it.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

So what were the quotes that I used as a mental prompt to improv my first dungeon on the fly, well I found the sheet and here they are. I got 28 hours of gaming in two long hauls with 20 players that talked about it for weeks. There was no treasure and no combat. Yeah, they were on the verge of a TPK three times with no combat involved and as noted they did not realize they were in so much danger until they were out of it. Physical danger was a small part of the danger. These were each carved into the dungeon walls.

The Quotes:

1. What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared with what lies within us.

2. Those who have not often felt the joy of doing a kind act, have neglected much, and most of all themselves.

3. You may light another's candle at your own without loss.

4. It's not enough that we do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required.

5. The permanent temptation of life is to confuse dreams with reality. The permanent defeat of life comes when dreams are surrendered to reality.

6. Water becomes worthless when it stagnates. So do people.

7. If in the morning a *Gypsy you meet,
the rest of your day will be lucky and sweet,
but if a black-robed priest comes first,
your luck is gone expect the worst.

8. Let your red blood and my red blood,
run together in one stream,
let it drive a mill
and that mill should have three stones;
It's first stone should throw white pearls,
It's second stone should throw small change,
It's third stone should produce love.

9. The river is deep, the river is wide
Milk and honey on the other side.

Disclaimer* in 1975-76 no one of college age ever suspected that Gypsy was a slur, in fact I viewed it as a positive word and was very surprised in the last 5 years to find out that it is viewed as a slur, something I would never have guessed. Note that the quote uses meeting a Gypsy as a very good and positive thing.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Also, if I were ever to do this again, it would be completely different as the details are mostly lost to time. But twenty college kids between 18-20 and all of them steeped in a background of fairy tales, Greek, Roman and Norse myths and mythology along with English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish sources and fantasy literature, that group can never be duplicated again.

[Iucounu]

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

Thanks for relating theme memories. I love hearing about peoples first experiences with RPGs, especially from way back then.

What a curious way to prep. I must say I like it! Those are some really good quotes and I can really see that they might be applicable to any kind of game. I really seems like a good way to prep since it makes sure that there is a spark for the imagination while making it broad enough that it can fit into whatever plans the players have.

When I read the quotes I can't avoid trying to fit them all together into some larger narrative. Like if they are each of them some kinds of test or arcane ritual or prophecy. I think I would present the quotes to the players as a goal that they must accomplish and wait until the situations fits with one of them and play along.

I find the quotes 1, 7 and 9 to be very ominous, so that is where I will bet your players faced the most dangerous situations.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 2, 2021 14:22:19 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

Thanks for relating theme memories. I love hearing about peoples first experiences with RPGs, especially from way back then.

What a curious way to prep. I must say I like it! Those are some really good quotes and I can really see that they might be applicable to any kind of game. I really seems like a good way to prep since it makes sure that there is a spark for the imagination while making it broad enough that it can fit into whatever plans the players have.

When I read the quotes I can't avoid trying to fit them all together into some larger narrative. Like if they are each of them some kinds of test or arcane ritual or prophecy. I think I would present the quotes to the players as a goal that they must accomplish and wait until the situations fits with one of them and play along.

I find the quotes 1, 7 and 9 to be very ominous, so that is where I will bet your players faced the most dangerous situations.

I placed your guess in bold, after several people have the chance to weigh in, I will answer.

They read each one and then went thru a door and it was full on improv from that point on. Nine doors, nine quotes engraved in the wall, they just did them each in turn in the order they chose.

[hengest]

(I will reply to this awesome thread tonight, I hope. Exalt!)

[The Perilous Dreamer]

One of these areas looked like it was outdoors with really low thick cloud cover, once you got away from the entrance you would never have guessed you were underground. I did not call attention to this at all, just started to gradually describe it like it was outside. Can you guess which one it was?

[hengest]

Sept 2, 2021 12:18:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

So what were the quotes that I used as a mental prompt to improv my first dungeon on the fly, well I found the sheet and here they are. I got 28 hours of gaming in two long hauls with 20 players that talked about it for weeks. There was no treasure and no combat. Yeah, they were on the verge of a TPK three times with no combat involved and as noted they did not realize they were in so much danger until they were out of it. Physical danger was a small part of the danger. These were each carved into the dungeon walls.

The Quotes:

1. What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared with what lies within us.

2. Those who have not often felt the joy of doing a kind act, have neglected much, and most of all themselves.

3. You may light another's candle at your own without loss.

4. It's not enough that we do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required.

5. The permanent temptation of life is to confuse dreams with reality. The permanent defeat of life comes when dreams are surrendered to reality.

6. Water becomes worthless when it stagnates. So do people.

7. If in the morning a *Gypsy you meet,
the rest of your day will be lucky and sweet,
but if a black-robed priest comes first,
your luck is gone expect the worst.

8. Let your red blood and my red blood,
run together in one stream,
let it drive a mill
and that mill should have three stones;
It's first stone should throw white pearls,
It's second stone should throw small change,
It's third stone should produce love.

9. The river is deep, the river is wide
Milk and honey on the other side.

Disclaimer* in 1975-76 no one of college age ever suspected that Gypsy was a slur, in fact I viewed it as a positive word and was very surprised in the last 5 years to find out that it is viewed as a slur, something I would never have guessed. Note that the quote uses meeting a Gypsy as a very good and positive thing.

Okay, brilliant post.  Great that you dug this up.  

I guess 1, 5, 9 for the near-TPK, although I really have next to no idea.  

I guess 5 for the inside outside, although I guess that's too obvious.  

That you planned this in this manner over a break and then ran it for group is too awesome, that suggests so much faith in the synergy of the group and in one's own imagination.  I bet there are professional performers who have trouble getting into this state.  

The planning itself, the idea of the quotes as things to riff off, somehow to me that sounds like a combination of factors that are likely to take place in person now: the background you mention of most of those present, the college atmosphere, the youth, the sense of possibility.  That just doesn't seem to be the world right now, at least not the world that I live in.  I suppose there are some new good things around, like it would have been unusual for hobbyists who live to far apart to meet to have such extended discussions at a distance.  I'm trying to be positive here.

We could do a thread where you either add a quote or design a room or adventure hook or any improvised idea based on of the quotes already posted in the thread.

In what way did you "look up" the quotes?  You just flipped back through things you had read and took good quotes from them?

The problem with things like "gypsy" is there is a word that is used, a new word is chosen as "polite" and the old word magically becomes "impolite" and then immediately "a slur" even with no change in the intentions of anyone who uses it.  In other words, people change usage consciously and then point fingers at those who just went on doing the inoffensive thing they were doing.  

Do you have any possibility of digging up any of those people and finding them on social media?  I would be thrilled if you cared to and could find one and get them to post on this board at least once about what they remember!

Was every one of those players just a public library hound?

Iucounu Excellent response above, like the take you have of having something like this ready as a god to the imagination and then planning to slot it in wherever, PCs investigate the haunted house at the fair, boom, here are the rooms.  Party wants to drink from the shared-hallucination-inducing fountain, great, roll a d9 (I guess just ignore 0) and then riff.  I would not have thought of that, I could only have imagined this as stationary and planned even though I usually think modular, slot wherever.  I guess because this is already so wild I would have felt it had to be contained somehow.  

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 2, 2021 22:44:25 GMT -5 hengest said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:18:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

So what were the quotes that I used as a mental prompt to improv my first dungeon on the fly, well I found the sheet and here they are. I got 28 hours of gaming in two long hauls with 20 players that talked about it for weeks. There was no treasure and no combat. Yeah, they were on the verge of a TPK three times with no combat involved and as noted they did not realize they were in so much danger until they were out of it. Physical danger was a small part of the danger. These were each carved into the dungeon walls.

Okay, brilliant post.  Great that you dug this up.  

I guess 1, 5, 9 for the near-TPK, although I really have next to no idea.  

I guess 5 for the inside outside, although I guess that's too obvious.  

That you planned this in this manner over a break and then ran it for group is too awesome, that suggests so much faith in the synergy of the group and in one's own imagination.  I bet there are professional performers who have trouble getting into this state.  

The planning itself, the idea of the quotes as things to riff off, somehow to me that sounds like a combination of factors that are likely to take place in person now: the background you mention of most of those present, the college atmosphere, the youth, the sense of possibility.  That just doesn't seem to be the world right now, at least not the world that I live in.  I suppose there are some new good things around, like it would have been unusual for hobbyists who live to far apart to meet to have such extended discussions at a distance.  I'm trying to be positive here.

We could do a thread where you either add a quote or design a room or adventure hook or any improvised idea based on of the quotes already posted in the thread.

In what way did you "look up" the quotes?  You just flipped back through things you had read and took good quotes from them?

The problem with things like "gypsy" is there is a word that is used, a new word is chosen as "polite" and the old word magically becomes "impolite" and then immediately "a slur" even with no change in the intentions of anyone who uses it.  In other words, people change usage consciously and then point fingers at those who just went on doing the inoffensive thing they were doing.  

Do you have any possibility of digging up any of those people and finding them on social media?  I would be thrilled if you cared to and could find one and get them to post on this board at least once about what they remember!

Was every one of those players just a public library hound?

Iucounu Excellent response above, like the take you have of having something like this ready as a god to the imagination and then planning to slot it in wherever, PCs investigate the haunted house at the fair, boom, here are the rooms.  Party wants to drink from the shared-hallucination-inducing fountain, great, roll a d9 (I guess just ignore 0) and then riff.  I would not have thought of that, I could only have imagined this as stationary and planned even though I usually think modular, slot wherever.  I guess because this is already so wild I would have felt it had to be contained somehow.  

Great comments, I marked your guesses, hope to have a few more people chime in before I comment. For looking up the quotes, I had a note book that I had been writing quotes in since I was maybe 10 or so. I looked them up in that.

[Morose]

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

On the TPK guess I am going with 3, 6 and 7.

As to what to make out of the quotes, I will have to see. 28 hours for 20 players. That is huge, shame that game was not video taped. Take that youtube gamers.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Anyone else have a guess on the near TPKs?

[Traveroark]

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

I would guess 2, 4, and 7. 

I think I could do this. Physiological tests, hmm, my players might kill me for this one.

I will say this might not work outside of an academic setting. I bet those English and Language majors were really eating this up.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

You guys have made some good guesses so far, keep them coming.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 8, 2021 20:59:58 GMT -5 Traveroark said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

I would guess 2, 4, and 7. 

I think I could do this. Physiological tests, hmm, my players might kill me for this one.

I will say this might not work outside of an academic setting. I bet those English and Language majors were really eating this up.

More good guesses and yes the liberal arts majors did eat it up, but surprisingly (to me) so did the science, math and engineering majors. I realized this after the fact, going in, I just assumed that everyone would have a great time with it, which is how I always approach every game.

[Traveroark]

The Perilous Dreamer Why don't you post the answer to your question about the deadly three?

[hengest]

Dec 27, 2021 21:44:46 GMT -5 Traveroark said:

The Perilous Dreamer Why don't you post the answer to your question about the deadly three?

Yeah, looking forward to this when PD gets back.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I forgot about this thread. Anyone who wants to guess which were the deadly three and bonus points if you know why, go ahead and post your guess. Then in a few days or a week, I will post the answer.


Edit: don't let me forget this thread, this time.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 6, 2021 13:01:16 GMT -5 Morose said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

On the TPK guess I am going with 3, 6 and 7.

As to what to make out of the quotes, I will have to see. 28 hours for 20 players. That is huge, shame that game was not video taped. Take that youtube gamers.

I just noticed that I did not previously put your guesses in bold.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 8, 2021 20:59:58 GMT -5 Traveroark said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

I would guess 2, 4, and 7. 

I think I could do this. Physiological tests, hmm, my players might kill me for this one.

I will say this might not work outside of an academic setting. I bet those English and Language majors were really eating this up.

I also neglected to put your guesses in bold.

[The Semi-Retired Gamer]

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

Before I read any further, I'm going to guess 1, 4, and 6 resulted in TPKs.

[simrion]

I'm guessing 1, 5 & 9 :-)

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 7, 2022 20:21:17 GMT -5 The Semi-Retired Gamer said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:20:34 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I am curious about two things: One is what would you make out of those nine quotes that would result in 28 hours of gaming for 20 happy players? And two, can you guess which three quotes almost resulted in TPKs?

Before I read any further, I'm going to guess 1, 4, and 6 resulted in TPKs.

Thanks

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 8, 2022 4:46:32 GMT -5 simrion said:

I'm guessing 1, 5 & 9 :-)

Thanks!

[Bartholmew Quarrels]

Sept 2, 2021 12:18:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

The Quotes:

2. Those who have not often felt the joy of doing a kind act, have neglected much, and most of all themselves.

4. It's not enough that we do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required.

5. The permanent temptation of life is to confuse dreams with reality. The permanent defeat of life comes when dreams are surrendered to reality.

I am voting for 2, 4 and 5.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Sept 9, 2022 9:44:48 GMT -5 Bartholmew Quarrels said:

Sept 2, 2021 12:18:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

The Quotes:

2. Those who have not often felt the joy of doing a kind act, have neglected much, and most of all themselves.

4. It's not enough that we do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required.

5. The permanent temptation of life is to confuse dreams with reality. The permanent defeat of life comes when dreams are surrendered to reality.

I am voting for 2, 4 and 5.

Ok, thank you. I will give them another day or two and then I will post.

[Bickler]

I am going to guess, 1, 3, and 5.

[Traveroark]

Hey PD, time to give us the answer!

[The Perilous Dreamer]

OK, guys, sorry for not getting back to this for so long.

The encounters that resulted in a near TPK, but no deaths in this adventure (close but no), were 4, 5 and 7. A lot of you got two of them, and several of you named at least one of the three, but no one got all three.