D&D Campaign timekeeping

[multiarms]

I have read this blog post several times over the past month. The author seems a bit angry but his point is an interesting one. 
jeffro.wordpress.com/2021/04/17/fifty-years-of-fantasy-gaming-and-you-still-dont-get-it/

The article quotes some interesting material from the Blackmoor supplement and from Gary's PHB. For instance, this:

Dungeon expedition– 1 week
Wilderness adventure– 1 move = 1 day
1 Week of actual time– 1 week of game time

Have any of you run your campaigns in this fashion? I am familiar with Gary's quote that "meaningful campaign is not possible unless accurate time records are kept." I always assumed that he was referring to dungeon exploration time (torches burning out, wandering monsters, etc.). But I am seeing that it is about more than that. Have you run campaigns like this where "actual time" away from the game table translates to "game time" for the campaign characters? Did you have players keep a stable of multiple PCs and NPCs? How did you handle dungeon exploration? I'm assuming that the parties would need to leave dungeons and return to safety in each session so that the "actual time" activities could take place. That appeals to me as an interesting way to play (as opposed to the "never-ending camping trip" style which have dominated my campaigns).

[Iucounu]

I have really wanted to run my campaign like that. Ever since I realized the concept of 1 game week = 1 actual week a lot of things in the rules like resting, training times, scroll scribing etc. all made a lot more sense to me.

I ended up trying to implement it but I faced some difficulties. First, my group only plays like once a month, which poses a dilemma: either game time and actual time are not 1:1, or each session takes a month of game time. If I ran the game as 1 week game time = 1 month actual time, scribing a 3rd level spell would mean not playing your character for three months. And if I ran the game as 1 game month = 1 actual month I really wouldn't know how to adjudicate a whole month at each 4-5 hour session.

So I guess the whole thing should be redesigned to really be used in my group. I'd be very interested to hear if this is possible though. And I want to give it some thought, because now that I know about it, I really dislike how not playing it as 1week=1week changes a lot of the design of the game.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

May 30, 2021 14:40:35 GMT -5 multiarms said:

I have read this blog post several times over the past month. The author seems a bit angry but his point is an interesting one. 
jeffro.wordpress.com/2021/04/17/fifty-years-of-fantasy-gaming-and-you-still-dont-get-it/

The article quotes some interesting material from the Blackmoor supplement and from Gary's PHB. For instance, this:

Dungeon expedition– 1 week
Wilderness adventure– 1 move = 1 day
1 Week of actual time– 1 week of game time

Have any of you run your campaigns in this fashion? I am familiar with Gary's quote that "meaningful campaign is not possible unless accurate time records are kept." I always assumed that he was referring to dungeon exploration time (torches burning out, wandering monsters, etc.). But I am seeing that it is about more than that. Have you run campaigns like this where "actual time" away from the game table translates to "game time" for the campaign characters? Did you have players keep a stable of multiple PCs and NPCs? How did you handle dungeon exploration? I'm assuming that the parties would need to leave dungeons and return to safety in each session so that the "actual time" activities could take place. That appeals to me as an interesting way to play (as opposed to the "never-ending camping trip" style which have dominated my campaigns).

Back in the day, I never used this as is. Let me explain, we played twice a week or about 20 hours each week. During those 20 hours anywhere from a month to 3 months of game time would elapse. So IMO for my campaign, this was just wasted effort to worry about real world time, when in the course of a single school year we were playing through years of game time. Also we had one large group/party of players, Gygax was running multiple groups/parties of players through the same dungeon and so more tracking of time was warranted, to coordinate the different groups.

Yeah, the author does seem angry and while he has a point, he is treading the "One True Way" to play that many in the "old school" community tread. Although I would bet that he doesn't know that is what he is doing. No matter how enamored you are with any given rule, D&D is not a one size fits all game. I track time, but not like this. 

Now, when at most I play 3 or 4 hours at a time. That is not long enough to do any significant dive into a dungeon and get back to town before the end of the game, where 8-10 hours is. So IMC we stop play when we need to and no time passes until we play again. On the other hand in 4 hours you play through three to six weeks to get to the dungeon and then play what time you have in the dungeon. Next game you play a long day in the dungeon, they may even have to push on for 48 hours without sleep (yeah you run out of spells) to get in and back out. With a quick thinking group you can play through a lot of time in a hurry.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

May 30, 2021 15:18:26 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

I have really wanted to run my campaign like that. Ever since I realized the concept of 1 game week = 1 actual week a lot of things in the rules like resting, training times, scroll scribing etc. all made a lot more sense to me.

I ended up trying to implement it but I faced some difficulties. First, my group only plays like once a month, which poses a dilemma: either game time and actual time are not 1:1, or each session takes a month of game time. If I ran the game as 1 week game time = 1 month actual time, scribing a 3rd level spell would mean not playing your character for three months. And if I ran the game as 1 game month = 1 actual month I really wouldn't know how to adjudicate a whole month at each 4-5 hour session.

So I guess the whole thing should be redesigned to really be used in my group. I'd be very interested to hear if this is possible though. And I want to give it some thought, because now that I know about it, I really dislike how not playing it as 1 week=1 week changes a lot of the design of the game.

You have to do what works for your campaign. Plus you can try lots of things and if they don't work for you, then do something else. Try anything you want, but if it doesn't work for you, don't feel bad if your campaign doesn't run like someone else's game and don't let them tell you, you are doing it wrong if you don't do it your way.

I played OD&D so there was no training time to worry about. Leveling up was all about on the job training as you go. 

Another thing to remember was that Gygax was playing several game sessions with different players each day, 6-7 days a week. None of us have ever gotten to play that much. The game time/actual time thing has good points, but really if is not going to work for everyone and that is OK. Run what works for you and don't let anyone tell you your game is "less" than some "ideal" game because of it. Try it, experiment with variations, but don't sweat it.

[multiarms]

May 30, 2021 16:16:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

You have to do what works for your campaign. Plus you can try lots of things and if they don't work for you, then do something else. Try anything you want, but if it doesn't work for you, don't feel bad if your campaign doesn't run like someone else's game and don't let them tell you, you are doing it wrong if you don't do it your way.

I played OD&D so there was no training time to worry about. Leveling up was all about on the job training as you go. 

Another thing to remember was that Gygax was playing several game sessions with different players each day, 6-7 days a week. None of us have ever gotten to play that much. The game time/actual time thing has good points, but really if is not going to work for everyone and that is OK. Run what works for you and don't let anyone tell you your game is "less" than some "ideal" game because of it. Try it, experiment with variations, but don't sweat it.

This is good advice. I have been trying to implement classical Gygaxian time records with downtime activities between sessions, such as domain-management type of stuff. But it is not always feasible when you often have to "pause" game time in the middle of a dungeon or something. I appreciate you sharing your experience and wisdom, Halenar.  Here is what I have written up today in the most recent revision of my Homebrew D&D rules and philosophy document:


Campaign Management and “Game Time”

“YOU CAN NOT HAVE A MEANINGFUL CAMPAIGN IF STRICT TIME RECORDS ARE NOT KEPT”
(Gary Gygax, Dungeon Masters Guide, page 37).

This was written in the late 1970s, when Gary and his O.G. buttlords were playing D&D 6-7 days a week in 6-12 hour sessions, and a typical session would include wilderness travel, multi-level dungeon exploration, and a return to town to split treasure and recuperate. Each dungeon & travel session was reckoned to be one week of “game time,” even for characters whose players missed the session. In between sessions, each week of actual time was also counted as a week of game time for downtime activities such as crafting, training, running a household or stronghold, etc.

For normal people with jobs, families and other responsibilities, this is not easily accomplished. My home campaigns are generally scheduled one evening every 1-2 weeks, with a 3-4 hour session at the table. There may be occasional weekend meetings for longer sessions. It would be ideal to venture into a dungeon and return to town each session, but this is not always possible, necessitating that game time be “paused” in between table sessions. Perhaps the party finds a safe place to rest for one night of game time, or perhaps because of time constraints the game world must even be paused in the middle of action!

Whenever possible, it is recommended to try to reckon and record time as Gary intended, even for PCs who do not participate in a game session, so that everyone is on the same time. Keep a log of what day it is in the game world, and record what each PC is doing during downtime, using a shared document or chat thread. I start campaigns on “Jan. 1” and record it as 01.01.01 (month.day.year).

Dungeon expedition: 1 week
Wilderness adventure: 1 move = 1 day
Between sessions: 1 week of actual time = 1 week of game time

[Jareddo]

We try to track time in the game, but we are not sticklers for high accuracy, we try to stay between accurate enough for horseshoes and grenades. That keeps us in the right ballpark.

[Death Even XIII]

Jun 1, 2021 1:32:57 GMT -5 Jareddo said:

We try to track time in the game, but we are not sticklers for high accuracy, we try to stay between accurate enough for horseshoes and grenades. That keeps us in the right ballpark.

Yeah, this is us, this is what we do.

[Iucounu]

May 30, 2021 16:16:29 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

You have to do what works for your campaign. Plus you can try lots of things and if they don't work for you, then do something else. Try anything you want, but if it doesn't work for you, don't feel bad if your campaign doesn't run like someone else's game and don't let them tell you, you are doing it wrong if you don't do it your way.

I played OD&D so there was no training time to worry about. Leveling up was all about on the job training as you go. 

Another thing to remember was that Gygax was playing several game sessions with different players each day, 6-7 days a week. None of us have ever gotten to play that much. The game time/actual time thing has good points, but really if is not going to work for everyone and that is OK. Run what works for you and don't let anyone tell you your game is "less" than some "ideal" game because of it. Try it, experiment with variations, but don't sweat it.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

I will have to experiment with it because I think the idea appeals to me for a lot of reasons other than the knowledge that it might have been intended that way. I will try to explain.

There are some things in the game, that have always irked me, related to the ability of the players to let time pass as will.

One example: in one of my recent games a new (to old school gaming) player discovered how powerful the Sleep spell is and wanted to know if there was any limitation on how he might scribe sleep spell scrolls to bring with him. We play BX D&D and I try to try it as written so I told him that each scroll would take him a week and cost him 100gp. His plan was then for the group to tell me that they would spend four weeks in town while he scribed four sleep scrolls because they had 400gp to spare. The group, however, decided that maybe it wasn't fair and/or fitting into the "narrative" that they should all just wait patiently for him to finish it so they decided to forget about it and not even scribe a single scroll.

Now I want to run a challenging game. I don't want the players to hold back to be able to tell some specific story or whatever. I want them feel like they accomplish something when they succeed on an adventure and these rules, as I currently run them, seems very counterproductive to getting the game I want.

When played as "intended" this all makes sense to me. Time suddenly becomes a resource for a whole new management aspect of the game. You want to craft something, you have to sacrifice something. Besides, A wizard that missed a game one week comes back to the next game and "have used the time he was absent to scribe a scroll" so he also gets a little out of his time.

But there has to be some reason for the game to move on even though some characters are doing something else in town in the meantime. I guess that wasn't a problem when everyone could not attend the same sessions and people competed with each other and wanted to get ahead.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jun 1, 2021 14:28:55 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

There are some things in the game, that have always irked me, related to the ability of the players to let time pass as will.

Iucounu you have raised some good points and I will try to reply to them here. The way time passes is not really under the players control, that falls back to the referee to adjudicate the passing of time.

Jun 1, 2021 14:28:55 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

One example: in one of my recent games a new (to old school gaming) player discovered how powerful the Sleep spell is and wanted to know if there was any limitation on how he might scribe sleep spell scrolls to bring with him. We play BX D&D and I try to try it as written so I told him that each scroll would take him a week and cost him 100 gp. His plan was then for the group to tell me that they would spend four weeks in town while he scribed four sleep scrolls because they had 400 gp to spare. The group, however, decided that maybe it wasn't fair and/or fitting into the "narrative" that they should all just wait patiently for him to finish it so they decided to forget about it and not even scribe a single scroll.

Here is how I run it in OD&D. The player character doing whatever, is out of action for weeks, months or even years with his project. Everyone else continues to adventure. The player may have other characters that he plays while this one character is out of action. There are some stipulations, only one active character in a game session, they can not be related, and they cannot trade resources in ways that the characters of Player X and Player Y do not. A lot of things where the players wants things to happen a certain way with money and resources go to group vote. Often before the vote the other players want to know what is in it for them.

IIRC I have read that Gygax and Arneson let people play one character while another was out of action. But generally no, the group should not be waiting while someone does stuff for weeks. There are rule differences between OD&D and AD&D that can alter this, with training rules and other things all coming into the mix.

Jun 1, 2021 14:28:55 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

Now I want to run a challenging game. I don't want the players to hold back to be able to tell some specific story or whatever. I want them feel like they accomplish something when they succeed on an adventure and these rules, as I currently run them, seems very counterproductive to getting the game I want.

If the rules are getting in the way of the game you want to run, remember that the rules are really guidelines and you can change them as you will to get the game you want to play. It is suggested that you understand the rule you want to change and thing about the unintended consequences of what you want to do. Looking at what other people have done is always a good idea when you have that option. If you change something and it does not work, try something else.

Jun 1, 2021 14:28:55 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

When played as "intended" this all makes sense to me. Time suddenly becomes a resource for a whole new management aspect of the game. You want to craft something, you have to sacrifice something. Besides, A wizard that missed a game one week comes back to the next game and "have used the time he was absent to scribe a scroll" so he also gets a little out of his time.

I would say he gets a lot out of his time. That scroll might save his life and that of the party.

Jun 1, 2021 14:28:55 GMT -5 Iucounu said:

But there has to be some reason for the game to move on even though some characters are doing something else in town in the meantime. I guess that wasn't a problem when everyone could not attend the same sessions and people competed with each other and wanted to get ahead.

The reason, IMO, is the same reason that we make wandering monster checks and extra checks when players are standing in a dungeon having a debate. The world is not static, and if players in a dungeon are having a long debate, treat it as In Character and roll wandering monster checks, have something come investigate the noise, the chance of the players being surprised is increased, etc.

Towns are expensive and if they all hang out in town for weeks, they incur expenses - food and lodging are obvious, then there is gambling and drinking, there are impulse buys (yeah give them things to buy and lots of opportunities to spend money). The mage cooped up making scrolls is not spending a lot of extra money, he is focused. But those fighters, what do you think they are doing for two weeks or four weeks. If they are in dark alleys at night and/or really drunk they might get mugged or rolled. They might get arrested and have to pay fines. The options are endless and a lot of ways to encourage players to not sit around.

[multiarms]

To follow-up from my original post:

Tonight I will be refereeing session 2 of a new campaign with 7 players (a mix of veteran gamers and new players). We're still playtesting my homebrew rules which are a combination of various versions of D&D (Holmes, BX, and 1e mainly). Those are the nuts-and-bolts rule but my growing interest in 1974 D&D informs the fashion in which I make rulings in the game. Hence, I do not use a set initiative system, but adjudicate the order of each round of combat in whatever way makes sense and seems fair, sometimes with dice. I try to run things fast and loose, so we can have a lot of fun exploration and encounters of various types in a 3-hour session.

Tonight I will be encouraging my players to buy-in to the more old-school campaign timekeeping which we are discussing on this thread. Most of us are used to the "never-ending camping trip" style where you go into a dungeon and somehow rest/recover between sessions until the dungeon is cleared or everyone dies. I will do my best to get them back to town somehow if I can tonight, so we can do some downtime stuff and see what else might happen in between sessions as we chat on a group text thread. If not, we will set the stage for future sessions.

Wish me luck!

[xizallian]

Jun 2, 2021 12:32:29 GMT -5 multiarms said:

To follow-up from my original post:

Tonight I will be refereeing session 2 of a new campaign with 7 players (a mix of veteran gamers and new players). We're still playtesting my homebrew rules which are a combination of various versions of D&D (Holmes, BX, and 1e mainly). Those are the nuts-and-bolts rule but my growing interest in 1974 D&D informs the fashion in which I make rulings in the game. Hence, I do not use a set initiative system, but adjudicate the order of each round of combat in whatever way makes sense and seems fair, sometimes with dice. I try to run things fast and loose, so we can have a lot of fun exploration and encounters of various types in a 3-hour session.

Tonight I will be encouraging my players to buy-in to the more old-school campaign timekeeping which we are discussing on this thread. Most of us are used to the "never-ending camping trip" style where you go into a dungeon and somehow rest/recover between sessions until the dungeon is cleared or everyone dies. I will do my best to get them back to town somehow if I can tonight, so we can do some downtime stuff and see what else might happen in between sessions as we chat on a group text thread. If not, we will set the stage for future sessions.

Wish me luck!

Best of luck, have a great game!

You should ask the Admin Pete to create a forum for your game, several people have them.

If not back to town, depending on the distance, camping outside a little ways from the dungeon is often a reasonable thing. Especially if they have some NPCs to watch the camp and take care of the livestock if you have horses or mules. My group often also had guard dogs for the camp and would take along a couple of steers for meat on the hoof, just in case the hunting was poor or they were too injured to hunt. A couple of steers roasted over an open fire is also good for attracting monsters.

[Admin Pete]

Jun 2, 2021 13:16:27 GMT -5 xizallian said:

Jun 2, 2021 12:32:29 GMT -5 multiarms said:

To follow-up from my original post:

Tonight I will be refereeing session 2 of a new campaign with 7 players (a mix of veteran gamers and new players). We're still playtesting my homebrew rules which are a combination of various versions of D&D (Holmes, BX, and 1e mainly). Those are the nuts-and-bolts rule but my growing interest in 1974 D&D informs the fashion in which I make rulings in the game. Hence, I do not use a set initiative system, but adjudicate the order of each round of combat in whatever way makes sense and seems fair, sometimes with dice. I try to run things fast and loose, so we can have a lot of fun exploration and encounters of various types in a 3-hour session.

Tonight I will be encouraging my players to buy-in to the more old-school campaign timekeeping which we are discussing on this thread. Most of us are used to the "never-ending camping trip" style where you go into a dungeon and somehow rest/recover between sessions until the dungeon is cleared or everyone dies. I will do my best to get them back to town somehow if I can tonight, so we can do some downtime stuff and see what else might happen in between sessions as we chat on a group text thread. If not, we will set the stage for future sessions.

Wish me luck!

Best of luck, have a great game!

You should ask the Admin Pete to create a forum for your game, several people have them.

If not back to town, depending on the distance, camping outside a little ways from the dungeon is often a reasonable thing. Especially if they have some NPCs to watch the camp and take care of the livestock if you have horses or mules. My group often also had guard dogs for the camp and would take along a couple of steers for meat on the hoof, just in case the hunting was poor or they were too injured to hunt. A couple of steers roasted over an open fire is also good for attracting monsters.

Yeah, if you want your own area, just let me know.

[ripx187]

Man, that blogger is a creep. I am a stickler with time, but I don't use that abstract stuff, I just count Movement rate and estimate how long an action takes. Sometimes I observe that a month in real time is a month in game time, but not often. Sometimes we are still in the middle of something, or the next session is time sensitive, such as chasing or tracking something and I have to prep the next section. Sometimes I just want to observe the current season so we'll skip ahead a few months. Gygax isn't playing in my game, so I've never felt this compulsion to follow all of his rules. 

One of my campaigns took place during one decade, the 1890's, time management was learned during this monster as it is very finite. I know that during my regular campaigns 10 years could go by in a single paragraph. To manage time I've learned to print off calendar pages and have the player to my right be the time-keeper. They keep basic notes and have the final say-so in regards to continuity. Our current time-keeper draws pictures that only she can decipher, so if she doesn't show up, which is rare but does happen, our game is mostly about trying to figure out what all of that stuff means.

As a group, we enjoy the theme of man vs. nature and observing the seasons is a lot of fun. We've also gotten more into activities that take place between adventures, that is kind of a new thing for us that came from reading 5th edition which really embraces the idea. 

[Samson and Solomon]

Jun 3, 2021 1:15:30 GMT -5 ripx187 said:

Man, that blogger is a creep. I am a stickler with time, but I don't use that abstract stuff, I just count Movement rate and estimate how long an action takes. Sometimes I observe that a month in real time is a month in game time, but not often. Sometimes we are still in the middle of something, or the next session is time sensitive, such as chasing or tracking something and I have to prep the next section. Sometimes I just want to observe the current season so we'll skip ahead a few months. Gygax isn't playing in my game, so I've never felt this compulsion to follow all of his rules. 

One of my campaigns took place during one decade, the 1890's, time management was learned during this monster as it is very finite. I know that during my regular campaigns 10 years could go by in a single paragraph. To manage time I've learned to print off calendar pages and have the player to my right be the time-keeper. They keep basic notes and have the final say-so in regards to continuity. Our current time-keeper draws pictures that only she can decipher, so if she doesn't show up, which is rare but does happen, our game is mostly about trying to figure out what all of that stuff means.

As a group, we enjoy the theme of man vs. nature and observing the seasons is a lot of fun. We've also gotten more into activities that take place between adventures, that is kind of a new thing for us that came from reading 5th edition which really embraces the idea. 

I think most everyone agrees with you, but it is sweet to see someone actually say what everyone is thinking. No one should feel a compulsion to follow the rules btb, do what works for you. Unlike the blogger, here we do not believe in bad wrong fun, if someone doesn't do it our way or play rigid by the book.

[Iucounu]

Jun 1, 2021 17:43:40 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

The reason, IMO, is the same reason that we make wandering monster checks and extra checks when players are standing in a dungeon having a debate. The world is not static, and if players in a dungeon are having a long debate, treat it as In Character and roll wandering monster checks, have something come investigate the noise, the chance of the players being surprised is increased, etc.

Towns are expensive and if they all hang out in town for weeks, they incur expenses - food and lodging are obvious, then there is gambling and drinking, there are impulse buys (yeah give them things to buy and lots of opportunities to spend money). The mage cooped up making scrolls is not spending a lot of extra money, he is focused. But those fighters, what do you think they are doing for two weeks or four weeks. If they are in dark alleys at night and/or really drunk they might get mugged or rolled. They might get arrested and have to pay fines. The options are endless and a lot of ways to encourage players to not sit around.

This last quoted part is really great! I think that's exactly what I needed. So as I see it now there are three approaches: Through the players, the dungeon master or the characters.

Seen in this way, my worries until now have been that the rules were written assuming the players themselves saw no need to jointly pass the time (I guess a due to a lot of the circumstances around the game - competitiveness, many players etc.) That first approach is not something I could use because my players focus on solidarity to the point where they will gladly give up a great magic items if they serve another player marginally better.

The second approach, the DM, I have found a bit hard since I want to avoid stepping in and denying them "just because" or even arguing that it would lead to a better game.

Now what I didn't consider was that the reasons must instead be found in the game world--for the characters. It is, after all, the characters that will experience those four weeks of waiting that could be reduced to a second for the players. I need to think a bit about whether I want to use the carrot or the stick. Or maybe a bit of both. Passing time in a safe space could mean opportunities (missed if delayed), expenses or even dangers. I am tempted to develop a table to roll on or something. I do run my game using living expenses, but I feel that actually end up hitting the players instead of the characters in some sense.

Your reply made me think that I should try and see if I can let the players experience some of what the characters are experiencing. I guess by simply interrupting their "waiting" and run an adventure in the city that the magic user can't be a part of unless they didn't use their time to scribe (I would let the player play another character of course, but that gives exactly the result I seek). I sense that this approach could make some of my stubborn players a bit irritated when they refuse to engage with anything. But on the other hand, this would be only serve to make the effect even better. Being really stubborn they would spend a whole session refusing to engage with anything just like their characters would, and be more and more irritated waiting for the magic user to finish the scrolls.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I think you are on the right track there, to get to where you want to be .

This touches on another thing, "character motivation." Bitd (at least IMC), every player came to the table armed with motivations for their characters. The characters had distinct personalities that may or may not resemble those of the players. I never once heard the question, "What's my motivation?" Apparently in some circles for the last 40+ years, some players have felt it was the Refs/DMs responsibility to come up with motivations for each PC. I guess it stems from directors telling the actors what their motivation is for the part they are playing. But I have read about great actors, reading the script and coming in with something different that worked even better. In my game there is no script and if you don't know what your character's motivation is, I am really sorry for you. I have never met an 8 year old that did not come to an RPG with plenty of motivations; if you are an adult, you are expected in my game to come to the table prepared to play, by having motivations for your character - complex or simple does not matter, just know why you are there.


P.S. Let me add that the characters had distinct personalities from their first breath and all without any back story. We did not need dozens of classes to make the characters different, they were all different. For example, no two fighters were ever alike IMC, they all were distinct.

[Molcho]

Jun 2, 2021 12:32:29 GMT -5 multiarms said:

To follow-up from my original post:

Tonight I will be refereeing session 2 of a new campaign with 7 players (a mix of veteran gamers and new players). We're still playtesting my homebrew rules which are a combination of various versions of D&D (Holmes, BX, and 1e mainly). Those are the nuts-and-bolts rule but my growing interest in 1974 D&D informs the fashion in which I make rulings in the game. Hence, I do not use a set initiative system, but adjudicate the order of each round of combat in whatever way makes sense and seems fair, sometimes with dice. I try to run things fast and loose, so we can have a lot of fun exploration and encounters of various types in a 3-hour session.

Tonight I will be encouraging my players to buy-in to the more old-school campaign timekeeping which we are discussing on this thread. Most of us are used to the "never-ending camping trip" style where you go into a dungeon and somehow rest/recover between sessions until the dungeon is cleared or everyone dies. I will do my best to get them back to town somehow if I can tonight, so we can do some downtime stuff and see what else might happen in between sessions as we chat on a group text thread. If not, we will set the stage for future sessions.

Wish me luck!

multiarms, how did it go? Did you get the buy-in you were hoping for?

[multiarms]

Jun 19, 2021 16:40:56 GMT -5 Molcho said:

multiarms , how did it go? Did you get the buy-in you were hoping for?

Thanks, yes it is going ok. That first session I made sure that they left the dungeon and returned to town. Then I explained to them how the time would work and I prompted them on our group chat a few times.

One player had to leave the group (which was actually ok because we had 7 PCs and now 6 is a little more manageable for me). So one of of the other PCs spent a week mourning their retired friend. That was cool.

Two other PCs started a rivalry, joking back and forth over the 2 weeks. Torgor the barbarian was constantly sleeping naked in Orion the elf's bed, messing it up. So Orion was trying to set up a hidden lair but Torgor was spending money to hire spies to follow Orion and track him. Stuff like that. That was good because it led to nice roleplay in the next game session.

Other PCs did some magical research, or donated money to the temple, etc.

I think they are enjoying it, because the players actually reminded me in our last session that they wanted to leave the dungeon and get back to town. And they asked me to clarify what exact date it was in the game world time. So far, so good.

Cheers!

[Uncle Monkey]

I'm going to direct my DM to this thread. This is all new to me.

[hengest]

Jun 20, 2021 14:31:46 GMT -5 Uncle Monkey said:

I'm going to direct my DM to this thread. This is all new to me.

Ha, nice idea!  I wish I had the experience to contribute to this or learn anything immediately applicable from it.  Here's hoping it's useful to your DM.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jun 20, 2021 9:18:13 GMT -5 multiarms said:

Jun 19, 2021 16:40:56 GMT -5 Molcho said:

multiarms , how did it go? Did you get the buy-in you were hoping for?

Thanks, yes it is going ok. That first session I made sure that they left the dungeon and returned to town. Then I explained to them how the time would work and I prompted them on our group chat a few times.

One player had to leave the group (which was actually ok because we had 7 PCs and now 6 is a little more manageable for me). So one of of the other PCs spent a week mourning their retired friend. That was cool.

Two other PCs started a rivalry, joking back and forth over the 2 weeks. Torgor the barbarian was constantly sleeping naked in Orion the elf's bed, messing it up. So Orion was trying to set up a hidden lair but Torgor was spending money to hire spies to follow Orion and track him. Stuff like that. That was good because it led to nice roleplay in the next game session.

Other PCs did some magical research, or donated money to the temple, etc.

I think they are enjoying it, because the players actually reminded me in our last session that they wanted to leave the dungeon and get back to town. And they asked me to clarify what exact date it was in the game world time. So far, so good.

Cheers!

Awesome, great to see that your players are rolling with it.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Jun 20, 2021 14:31:46 GMT -5 Uncle Monkey said:

I'm going to direct my DM to this thread. This is all new to me.

Cool!

[xizallian]

Jun 20, 2021 9:18:13 GMT -5 multiarms said:

Jun 19, 2021 16:40:56 GMT -5 Molcho said:

multiarms , how did it go? Did you get the buy-in you were hoping for?

Thanks, yes it is going ok. That first session I made sure that they left the dungeon and returned to town. Then I explained to them how the time would work and I prompted them on our group chat a few times.

One player had to leave the group (which was actually ok because we had 7 PCs and now 6 is a little more manageable for me). So one of of the other PCs spent a week mourning their retired friend. That was cool.

Two other PCs started a rivalry, joking back and forth over the 2 weeks. Torgor the barbarian was constantly sleeping naked in Orion the elf's bed, messing it up. So Orion was trying to set up a hidden lair but Torgor was spending money to hire spies to follow Orion and track him. Stuff like that. That was good because it led to nice roleplay in the next game session.

Other PCs did some magical research, or donated money to the temple, etc.

I think they are enjoying it, because the players actually reminded me in our last session that they wanted to leave the dungeon and get back to town. And they asked me to clarify what exact date it was in the game world time. So far, so good.

Cheers!

Really glad to see that this worked out well for you. The barbarian and the elf are a mess. To these two pick on each other all the time in real life? Sounds like friends from childhood.

[Morose]

I have done solo play for years so timekeeping is important to that process.

[mao]

Aug 6, 2021 1:31:56 GMT -5 Morose said:

I have done solo play for years so timekeeping is important to that process.

Time keeping is by far what I am worst at along w record keeping, it's always interesting to see the skill set of a ref, we are all different.

[Morose]

Aug 6, 2021 1:46:53 GMT -5 mao said:

Aug 6, 2021 1:31:56 GMT -5 Morose said:

I have done solo play for years so timekeeping is important to that process.

Time keeping is by far what I am worst at along w record keeping, it's always interesting to see the skill set of a ref, we are all different.

It is my opinion that time keeping is way more important in solo play that in group play. In solo play you have to work to make it riveting so that is one crucial tool to make that happen. 

[mao]

Aug 6, 2021 1:52:20 GMT -5 Morose said:

Aug 6, 2021 1:46:53 GMT -5 mao said:

Time keeping is by far what I am worst at along w record keeping, it's always interesting to see the skill set of a ref, we are all different.

It is my opinion that time keeping is way more important in solo play that in group play. In solo play you have to work to make it riveting so that is one crucial tool to make that happen. 

...it's one of many DM talents I don't have. As I said we all have different skill sets, mine is combat, that is what I do best.

[hengest]

Aug 6, 2021 1:52:20 GMT -5 Morose said:

Aug 6, 2021 1:46:53 GMT -5 mao said:

Time keeping is by far what I am worst at along w record keeping, it's always interesting to see the skill set of a ref, we are all different.

It is my opinion that time keeping is way more important in solo play that in group play. In solo play you have to work to make it riveting so that is one crucial tool to make that happen. 

On that note, many people here would be interested in your tales of solo play.

There is a great thread here with such an account from multiarms .

[Morose]

Aug 6, 2021 12:29:01 GMT -5 hengest said:

Aug 6, 2021 1:52:20 GMT -5 Morose said:

It is my opinion that time keeping is way more important in solo play that in group play. In solo play you have to work to make it riveting so that is one crucial tool to make that happen. 

On that note, many people here would be interested in your tales of solo play.

There is a great thread here with such an account from multiarms .

That is a great thread, but I would call that one on one play as two people are present a player and a ref. I play solo, ref and player are the same person. But to keep it honest AND to keep surprises and suspense at the proper level, the dice play a larger role (pun intended) than I would imagine they do in a regular game like most of you play with a group.

[hengest]

Aug 6, 2021 21:03:29 GMT -5 Morose said:

Aug 6, 2021 12:29:01 GMT -5 hengest said:

On that note, many people here would be interested in your tales of solo play.

There is a great thread here with such an account from multiarms .

That is a great thread, but I would call that one on one play as two people are present a player and a ref. I play solo, ref and player are the same person. But to keep it honest AND to keep surprises and suspense at the proper level, the dice play a larger role (pun intended) than I would imagine they do in a regular game like most of you play with a group.

I had misunderstood your solo play when I said that.  Of course that is different.

I don't really play with anyone, not even myself.  I try to learn and contribute what I can on this board in the hopes of someday reffing for kids or adults who aren't otherwise into the hobby.  Or a related hobby.  There is such a wealth of information and experience around here that I believe really need to be carried into the future.  Now, who knows how far into the future I will even make it, but I have to dream.