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Post by mao on Apr 8, 2021 6:37:45 GMT -5
Nobody is going to play your clone. Write adventures or encounters w that same creativity.
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Post by hengest on Apr 8, 2021 8:49:26 GMT -5
Are people still creating clones?
I largely agree but if someone is inclined to make a clone, who knows how it might spur them on to other work or how the art might catch someone's eye and inspire them. I do agree that creative energy might have a better outlet, but if that's where a gamer wants to go at the moment, I vote yes. Eventually the clones will settle down and bleed into 'zines, adventures, settings, and so on. I think.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 8, 2021 11:36:41 GMT -5
Nobody is going to play your clone. Write adventures or encounters w that same creativity. See here is where I disagree with you. For my gaming, people writing adventure modules is a waste of creativity. I will never use them. Create maps and other gaming aids that can be used in any old school D&D or similar game. Collections of house rules and alternate rules. Magic items, calendars, and tables for hundreds of things, etc. I like clones, because you can tell from the clone if they get it or if they really don't understand it at all. A good clone makes a good teaching aid for new players who have no conception of old school gaming and who the language in the original books intimidates them because it is so "hard" to read and understand. I say "hard," not because it is true, but because that is the image. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 8, 2021 11:39:07 GMT -5
Are people still creating clones? I largely agree but if someone is inclined to make a clone, who knows how it might spur them on to other work or how the art might catch someone's eye and inspire them. I do agree that creative energy might have a better outlet, but if that's where a gamer wants to go at the moment, I vote yes. Eventually the clones will settle down and bleed into 'zines, adventures, settings, and so on. I think. Yes, people are still creating clones and I don't expect that to stop any time soon. You mention two that I forgot to mention. 'Zines are also a great use of creativity and building settings that are independent of a particular game system and can be ported in many different games is great outlet. |
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Post by mao on Apr 10, 2021 5:26:21 GMT -5
You don't need modulus, I font need modals but the average DM needs them
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 14, 2021 10:08:30 GMT -5
You don't need modulus, I don't need modals but the average DM needs them I don't think any of us need modulus or modals in game. Sorry mao, I could not resist. |
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Post by mao on Apr 15, 2021 3:14:00 GMT -5
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 23, 2021 18:34:53 GMT -5
I would like to have a clone that is based on OD&D (just the three books) as close as legally possible, but mainly just for the reorganization, distributed in a RTF file so that you can edit it back to the real thing. Then a series of supplements full of options from the D&D supplements and other documents and then full of house rules from everywhere.
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Post by Morton on Apr 24, 2021 23:56:19 GMT -5
The clones are not wasted creativity. Well maybe the ones that are being sold at high prices are wasted, but the free ones are great, even the so so ones are great. You can take them and use them together and edit back in some of the original stuff where needed and make your own best of a whole lot easier than doing it from scratch. Some one else already did the boring part (typing and rewording) and you can make your own and have a blast. You have a bunch to choose from so you can pick the version that is closest to what you want and easily tweak it. There is free software to rip a pdf apart and fix it up to suit yourself. I say to all those so inclined, keep making clones, as many as possible.
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Post by Thargym The Black on Apr 29, 2021 18:08:36 GMT -5
I am not interested in clones, I am interested in a better organized rewrite of OD&D with no alterations aside from organization, same for the supplements and then take the "good" parts from The Strategic Review, The Dragon and a few other 70s sources and make additional new supplements. What you say, that would not be legal, ask me if I care. Not selling it, not buying it, just want to use it at the table. It is not my fault that the IP owner is too stupid to do it and sell me their legal pdfs. You can't buy it, if they don't sell it. IMO their inaction says they don't care. So if someone has the time and skill to do it, I would love to have a copy.
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Post by Admin Pete on Apr 29, 2021 22:47:22 GMT -5
I am not interested in clones, I am interested in a better organized rewrite of OD&D with no alterations aside from organization, same for the supplements and then take the "good" parts from The Strategic Review, The Dragon and a few other 70s sources and make additional new supplements. What you say, that would not be legal, ask me if I care. Not selling it, not buying it, just want to use it at the table. It is not my fault that the IP owner is too stupid to do it and sell me their legal pdfs. You can't buy it, if they don't sell it. IMO their inaction says they don't care. So if someone has the time and skill to do it, I would love to have a copy. I think we all want that to use at the table. I would have to agree that TSR and the current owner have missed the boat numerous times on things that could have and should have done and could have and should have published. It is mind boggling that Arneson was not utilized creatively by TSR, but instead shoved out the door, that Hargrave was sent a C&D instead of a job offer and on and on and on. All these massively creative people and TSR spent their energy trying to shut them down, instead of using them as an employee source. Then came the misguided T$R days, where it seems they were trying to alienate the fan base. Other franchises have shown that you can protect your IP and not be hateful towards fan creations. You have to set boundaries that everyone can live with. |
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Post by hengest on May 11, 2021 19:47:25 GMT -5
I am not interested in clones, I am interested in a better organized rewrite of OD&D with no alterations aside from organization, same for the supplements and then take the "good" parts from The Strategic Review, The Dragon and a few other 70s sources and make additional new supplements. What you say, that would not be legal, ask me if I care. Not selling it, not buying it, just want to use it at the table. It is not my fault that the IP owner is too stupid to do it and sell me their legal pdfs. You can't buy it, if they don't sell it. IMO their inaction says they don't care. So if someone has the time and skill to do it, I would love to have a copy. I think we all want that to use at the table. I would have to agree that TSR and the current owner have missed the boat numerous times on things that could have and should have done and could have and should have published. It is mind boggling that Arneson was not utilized creatively by TSR, but instead shoved out the door, that Hargrave was sent a C&D instead of a job offer and on and on and on. All these massively creative people and TSR spent their energy trying to shut them down, instead of using them as an employee source. Then came the misguided T$R days, where it seems they were trying to alienate the fan base. Other franchises have shown that you can protect your IP and not be hateful towards fan creations. You have to set boundaries that everyone can live with. I was not there and don't know how these decisions were made. But I agree they were wrong. It's especially boggling in the case of Arneson. I guess it happens that people's contributions begin to seem trivial until they are gone. Then you have to make do with what you have. I have to read that RJK book on Arneson. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 21, 2021 18:33:01 GMT -5
I am not interested in clones, I am interested in a better organized rewrite of OD&D with no alterations aside from organization, same for the supplements and then take the "good" parts from The Strategic Review, The Dragon and a few other 70s sources and make additional new supplements. What you say, that would not be legal, ask me if I care. Not selling it, not buying it, just want to use it at the table. It is not my fault that the IP owner is too stupid to do it and sell me their legal pdfs. You can't buy it, if they don't sell it. IMO their inaction says they don't care. So if someone has the time and skill to do it, I would love to have a copy. If you run across that document, I would love to have a copy of it. Yeah, IP owners seldom are interested in producing and selling the things I would like to buy. Not that I have any money to spend these days, but that is any subject. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 21, 2021 18:35:36 GMT -5
I think we all want that to use at the table. I was not there and don't know how these decisions were made. But I agree they were wrong. It's especially boggling in the case of Arneson. I guess it happens that people's contributions begin to seem trivial until they are gone. Then you have to make do with what you have. I have to read that RJK book on Arneson. Yeah, you do need to read that book. Shame it is in many ways just the teaser. The other books he has mentioned that are in very stages of completion, I hope get finished someday before it is too late. |
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Post by mao on May 25, 2021 5:19:42 GMT -5
I would like to have a clone that is based on OD&D (just the three books) as close as legally possible, but mainly just for the reorganization, distributed in a RTF file so that you can edit it back to the real thing. Then a series of supplements full of options from the D&D supplements and other documents and then full of house rules from everywhere. Swords & Wizardry is close to this. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 25, 2021 11:07:15 GMT -5
Clones are a good thing. Keep them coming. A clone writer can tweak their game to exactly match their vision of the game, or tailor it to "Gary's way" or "Arneson's method", or whatever else they can envision. I dig reading them.
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Post by mao on May 26, 2021 6:27:40 GMT -5
Clones are a good thing. Keep them coming. A clone writer can tweak their game to exactly match their vision of the game, or tailor it to "Gary's way" or "Arneson's method", or whatever else they can envision. I dig reading them. This is more of a do as I say not a do as I do. I have made about 4 rules sets of my own. Including a reverse engineered Savage Worlds with only a character sheet to go by. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 26, 2021 16:41:12 GMT -5
Clones are a good thing. Keep them coming. A clone writer can tweak their game to exactly match their vision of the game, or tailor it to "Gary's way" or "Arneson's method", or whatever else they can envision. I dig reading them. This is more of a do as I say not a do as I do. I have made about 4 rules sets of my own. Including a reverse engineered Savage Worlds with only a character sheet to go by. I think you misunderstand me. The clones make it easier to tailor the rules to how you and your group play. You can take a free download and strip out of the stuff you don't use, change the things you have changed in your campaign (incorporate your house rules into the text), or just go subject by subject changing initiative to method A, thief skills to method c, ability score generation to method b, etc. for example. My buddies and I played a mish-mash of D&D and AD&D when we were young. I got Swords & Wizardry Complete years later and it's almost a perfect match for the level of crunch while the rules might not be exactly duplicated from what we use. Now I have a nearly perfect representation of the game we played in our youth. That sure beats having multiple rulebooks, house rules, and magazines to flip through. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 27, 2021 14:04:12 GMT -5
Clones are a good thing. Keep them coming. A clone writer can tweak their game to exactly match their vision of the game, or tailor it to "Gary's way" or "Arneson's method", or whatever else they can envision. I dig reading them. This is more of a do as I say not a do as I do. I have made about 4 rules sets of my own. Including a reverse engineered Savage Worlds with only a character sheet to go by. , do you still have any of those rules sets particularly the Savage Worlds set? Or did you lose all of that stuff as you have mentioned you lost a lot of stuff? |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 27, 2021 16:53:21 GMT -5
This is more of a do as I say not a do as I do. I have made about 4 rules sets of my own. Including a reverse engineered Savage Worlds with only a character sheet to go by. , do you still have any of those rules sets particularly the Savage Worlds set? Or did you lose all of that stuff as you have mentioned you lost a lot of stuff? Yeah mao don't bogart the rules.  |
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Post by mao on May 27, 2021 23:35:31 GMT -5
mao , do you still have any of those rules sets particularly the Savage Worlds set? Or did you lose all of that stuff as you have mentioned you lost a lot of stuff? Yeah mao don't bogart the rules. My rules were all destroyed in the flood but I remember a great deal. I will start a thread and cover them. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 27, 2021 23:51:42 GMT -5
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 28, 2021 5:47:26 GMT -5
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Post by Admin Pete on May 29, 2021 0:01:48 GMT -5
I would like to have a clone that is based on OD&D (just the three books) as close as legally possible, but mainly just for the reorganization, distributed in a RTF file so that you can edit it back to the real thing. Then a series of supplements full of options from the D&D supplements and other documents and then full of house rules from everywhere. Swords & Wizardry is close to this. Are any copies of it in an editable document? |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 9:19:09 GMT -5
Swords & Wizardry is close to this. Are any copies of it in an editable document? Certainly! Scroll down just a tad past the pdf versions on this page and you will find Latest Editions - Editable for House Ruling...Smoldering Wizard |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:07:28 GMT -5
Are any copies of it in an editable document? Certainly! Scroll down just a tad past the pdf versions on this page and you will find Latest Editions - Editable for House Ruling...Smoldering WizardI did not know that forum was there, who runs it? |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 10:09:09 GMT -5
Certainly! Scroll down just a tad past the pdf versions on this page and you will find Latest Editions - Editable for House Ruling...Smoldering WizardI did not know that forum was there, who runs it? The Smoldering Wizard? |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:15:10 GMT -5
I did not know that forum was there, who runs it? The Smoldering Wizard? Yes, did not know it existed or who runs it. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 10:18:45 GMT -5
Yes, did not know it existed or who runs it. I was saying maybe the Smoldering Wizard runs the forums? <ducks>  |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:25:46 GMT -5
Yes, did not know it existed or who runs it. I was saying maybe the Smoldering Wizard runs the forums? <ducks> Throws fireball and he goes up in smoke and then smolders for a while. |
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