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Post by hengest on Mar 10, 2021 23:31:00 GMT -5
Most magic items have a mechanical benefit (numerical) and in-game flavor. What else is there for a magic item to do? - in-game benefit with no number attached. Helps you start a fire or fly for a while. Lets you get around an aspect of the game world. Pass through stone or something.
- alters relationship between gameworld and our world. Examples, characters wear paired rings that cause some effect that causes them to be played by each other's players. Or something that shakes the core of the world and causes someone else to DM.
- recreational magic. No benefit, only useful for a character's "self"or personality.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 11, 2021 2:43:15 GMT -5
It could be many, many things. Something as simple as sleep with this under your head for a good nights sleep. Or sprinkle a little of this in your soup to enhance the flavor and also ward off attempts to poison you.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 11, 2021 2:44:16 GMT -5
I really like the paired rings. The extreme version of that is The One Ring.
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Post by hengest on Mar 12, 2021 22:56:48 GMT -5
Most magic items have a mechanical benefit (numerical) and in-game flavor. What else is there for a magic item to do? - recreational magic. No benefit, only useful for a character's "self"or personality.
One kind of recreational magic without mechanical benefit might be a kind of illusion that only affects the user. For example, to make his dwelling place appear more cozy, sheltering, and welcoming than it is (a little house full of character rather than a lean-to that barely feels like shelter at all). To avoid total pointlessness, say that the character sees things this way by maintaining the enchantment, and others who associate with him for some time come to see them this way, also. They are drawn into the illusion. The effect could even come to cover many people over a period of years, causing a city to grow around what was originally simply an illusion to make a tent feel more homey. This would still be a low-level illusion, even a cantrip (make house look nicer). The in-world explanation for its coming to cover so many people is this: it covers one vision, and the way the world works is that people can come to (usually do) share a vision. Usually use of this illusion does not "go viral" in this way, but sometimes it does. The extreme version (perhaps more than a cantrip if you wanted to allow this) would add in that people not only share a vision, but also add to its elements. This would mean that, although originally little more than a thin illusion, the spell could come to be a base for a shared visual fantasy around which real elements would gather. This would be an intriguing empire: not "the emperor has new clothes," but that the emperor and the palace itself are a shared illusion... |
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Post by hengest on Mar 12, 2021 23:19:17 GMT -5
Most magic items have a mechanical benefit (numerical) and in-game flavor. What else is there for a magic item to do? - alters relationship between gameworld and our world. Examples, characters wear paired rings that cause some effect that causes them to be played by each other's players. Or something that shakes the core of the world and causes someone else to DM.
I'm most intrigued by this one. Yes, it could be a pointless gimmick. But I have the strange feeling that it could increase engagement with the world. The Hat and the FireplaceA two-part item. The hat is in our world, the fireplace is there. The central mechanism is simple: a note burned in the fireplace is transported to the hat. In the other direction, a note placed into the hat, the latter being placed on the player's or ref's head, is "spoken aloud" by a voice from the flames in the fireplace. Locally (at the game table), this is just part of the game. In-game, the fireplace could be found in any circumstance. It might be the central hearth in a king's castle, where the monarch uses the voice as a kind of oracle. It might be a fiery alter at a temple through which a god is believed to speak. It might be a lantern used as a gimmick in a travelling show. If there is magic, why couldn't the charcters communicate with the outside world, at least in principle? |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 14, 2021 16:08:24 GMT -5
Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: If there is magic, why couldn't the characters communicate with the outside world, at least in principle? Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? |
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Post by hengest on Mar 14, 2021 17:20:09 GMT -5
Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: If there is magic, why couldn't the characters communicate with the outside world, at least in principle? Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? I certainly can imagine it! I came up with a silly mechanism, but anything could work. Not to overdo it seems key, but for a character to use the players as an "oracle" could be really cool. Or even as a "pen pal." |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 14, 2021 17:39:39 GMT -5
Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? I certainly can imagine it! I came up with a silly mechanism, but anything could work. Not to overdo it seems key, but for a character to use the players as an "oracle" could be really cool. Or even as a "pen pal." I am not sure about in pbp, but face to face, I will absolutely use this. I wish I had thought of it back in 1975. |
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Post by hengest on Mar 14, 2021 18:34:44 GMT -5
Yes, I have never done it, but it does sound like fun. I would be glad to hear about it if you ever use it. The Perilous Dreamer |
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Post by hengest on Mar 27, 2021 20:19:57 GMT -5
I already had completely forgotten this thread and had no idea what was in it when I clicked on it. It seems like these things mostly disappear from my mind once I type them.
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Post by mao on Mar 28, 2021 1:06:31 GMT -5
Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: If there is magic, why couldn't the characters communicate with the outside world, at least in principle? Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? I actually have run this, but your thoughts are better formed about it. |
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Post by mao on Mar 28, 2021 1:07:09 GMT -5
Wild stuff be here!!!!!
(nice)
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Post by hengest on Apr 2, 2021 1:59:44 GMT -5
I want to hear more about this. Edit: I meant from mao above. About magic items: they can affect the PC's interactions with the gameworld either mechanically or not at all mechanically. Mechanical: amulet, military family heirloom, originally looted from (insert place here and develop entire cultural history if desired), makes wearer digest more efficiently and causes rations to last 150% as long. Excellent item for a soldier, might explain how someone makes it to 1st level in the first place. Non-mech: potion with 1d6 doses, makes drinker's flesh and muscle, but not bone, intangible for a time. Might be useful for thief abilities, lockpicking, working in small spaces, squeezing through bars or very tight spaces, but the enterprising player will think of a hundred things to do with this. Taken literally it would be a challenging item to use: stabbing someone while using it might injure the user, as the hilt of the dagger is now held only by the bones of your hand. Your pack and clothing all settle down and are held up by your skeleton. I assume that your muscles and other intangible parts are still tangible TO your skeleton, otherwise this would be a deadly item and not a fun magic potion. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 2, 2021 23:38:28 GMT -5
I want to hear more about this. Edit: I meant Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? I actually have run this, but your thoughts are better formed about it. from mao above. Yeah, mao , we want to hear more about how you ran it. "Tell us a story!"  |
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Post by mao on Apr 3, 2021 5:37:31 GMT -5
I have had communication between the pcs and their "owner, In fact Ive done a fair bit of this The game that stands out in my mind, is a truly experimental version of this.The dm and me wee real and the games were their characters and could interact w all of this. I actually lost a player over this as he could not handle the concept, for that reason I strongly suggest that nobody do this hengest The Perilous Dreamer |
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Post by hengest on Oct 3, 2021 20:30:28 GMT -5
Oh, this could be fun with the right group of players: Can you imagine a game where the players communicate with the characters through a mechanism like this? I certainly can imagine it! I came up with a silly mechanism, but anything could work. Not to overdo it seems key, but for a character to use the players as an "oracle" could be really cool. Or even as a "pen pal." I keep coming back to this. It seems impossibly cool, although I know it could fail. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Oct 4, 2021 15:12:32 GMT -5
Most magic items have a mechanical benefit (numerical) and in-game flavor. What else is there for a magic item to do? - recreational magic. No benefit, only useful for a character's "self"or personality.
One kind of recreational magic without mechanical benefit might be a kind of illusion that only affects the user. For example, to make his dwelling place appear more cozy, sheltering, and welcoming than it is (a little house full of character rather than a lean-to that barely feels like shelter at all). To avoid total pointlessness, say that the character sees things this way by maintaining the enchantment, and others who associate with him for some time come to see them this way, also. They are drawn into the illusion. The effect could even come to cover many people over a period of years, causing a city to grow around what was originally simply an illusion to make a tent feel more homey. This would still be a low-level illusion, even a cantrip (make house look nicer). The in-world explanation for its coming to cover so many people is this: it covers one vision, and the way the world works is that people can come to (usually do) share a vision. Usually use of this illusion does not "go viral" in this way, but sometimes it does. The extreme version (perhaps more than a cantrip if you wanted to allow this) would add in that people not only share a vision, but also add to its elements. This would mean that, although originally little more than a thin illusion, the spell could come to be a base for a shared visual fantasy around which real elements would gather. This would be an intriguing empire: not "the emperor has new clothes," but that the emperor and the palace itself are a shared illusion... I wanted to come back to this. One feature would be that the more people who buy into the illusion and come to share it, the more real it becomes and when it reaches a tipping point it becomes completely real, in an absolute sense, that is seen by everyone. For the character themselves, it becomes more real progressively as more people share in the illusion. So that if it is bad weather, it really is warmer and drier and the more people who believe the more real it becomes for them to, until that previously mentioned tipping point occurs. In the one Barsoom book, a soldier that is part of an imaginary army, has been summoned so many times that he becomes real and remains when the rest of the "army" has disappeared. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Oct 4, 2021 15:17:50 GMT -5
The Hat and the FireplaceA two-part item. The hat is in our world, the fireplace is there. The central mechanism is simple: a note burned in the fireplace is transported to the hat. In the other direction, a note placed into the hat, the latter being placed on the player's or ref's head, is "spoken aloud" by a voice from the flames in the fireplace. I am not sure about in pbp, but face to face, I will absolutely use this. I wish I had thought of it back in 1975. The people I gamed with in college would absolutely have loved this idea, especially the English major who was a writer. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Oct 4, 2021 15:20:19 GMT -5
I want to hear more about this. Edit: I meant from mao above. About magic items: they can affect the PC's interactions with the gameworld either mechanically or not at all mechanically. Mechanical: amulet, military family heirloom, originally looted from (insert place here and develop entire cultural history if desired), makes wearer digest more efficiently and causes rations to last 150% as long. Excellent item for a soldier, might explain how someone makes it to 1st level in the first place. Non-mech: potion with 1d6 doses, makes drinker's flesh and muscle, but not bone, intangible for a time. Might be useful for thief abilities, lockpicking, working in small spaces, squeezing through bars or very tight spaces, but the enterprising player will think of a hundred things to do with this. Taken literally it would be a challenging item to use: stabbing someone while using it might injure the user, as the hilt of the dagger is now held only by the bones of your hand. Your pack and clothing all settle down and are held up by your skeleton. I assume that your muscles and other intangible parts are still tangible TO your skeleton, otherwise this would be a deadly item and not a fun magic potion. How about instead of intagible, it makes you very flexible, not as much as, but along the lines of Mr Fantastic of the Fantastic Four. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Oct 4, 2021 15:21:29 GMT -5
I have had communication between the pcs and their "owner, In fact Ive done a fair bit of this The game that stands out in my mind, is a truly experimental version of this.The dm and me wee real and the games were their characters and could interact w all of this. I actually lost a player over this as he could not handle the concept, for that reason I strongly suggest that nobody do this hengest The Perilous Dreamer Could not handle the concept, and quit. That just boggles my mind. |
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Post by hengest on Oct 4, 2021 15:56:11 GMT -5
I have had communication between the pcs and their "owner, In fact Ive done a fair bit of this The game that stands out in my mind, is a truly experimental version of this.The dm and me wee real and the games were their characters and could interact w all of this. I actually lost a player over this as he could not handle the concept, for that reason I strongly suggest that nobody do this hengest The Perilous Dreamer Could not handle the concept, and quit. That just boggles my mind. I also thought that sounded awful, maybe this person was sensitive to things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that and this seemed to tread too close? For the record, I intended it not as anything remotely like that, but just as a potentially fun part of the game. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Oct 4, 2021 16:23:24 GMT -5
Could not handle the concept, and quit. That just boggles my mind. I also thought that sounded awful, maybe this person was sensitive to things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that and this seemed to tread too close? For the record, I intended it not as anything remotely like that, but just as a potentially fun part of the game. This"things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that" would never have crossed my mind. Sometime, I think it boils down to this, if you have trouble discerning the difference between fantasy and reality, any fictional blurring of that line is too much. A good example is people who cry or get really upset when their character dies. Some people should not play RPGs. I can understand people being disappointed or a bit bummed when a high level character dies. But when your first level character dies, at least in OD&D, there is not real time investment there. |
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Post by hengest on Oct 4, 2021 16:27:54 GMT -5
I also thought that sounded awful, maybe this person was sensitive to things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that and this seemed to tread too close? For the record, I intended it not as anything remotely like that, but just as a potentially fun part of the game. This"things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that" would never have crossed my mind. Sometime, I think it boils down to this, if you have trouble discerning the difference between fantasy and reality, any fictional blurring of that line is too much. A good example is people who cry or get really upset when their character dies. Some people should not play RPGs. I can understand people being disappointed or a bit bummed when a high level character dies. But when your first level character dies, at least in OD&D, there is not real time investment there. Yes, maybe that is enough explanation (without knowing this person, of course). When I imagine recruiting inexperienced (adult) players to a game I worry about this a lot, that there will be extreme sympathy for the characters right away. Of course, there are worse things than engagement, but still. |
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Post by El Borak on Oct 4, 2021 16:57:00 GMT -5
This"things that smacked of real-world fortunetelling or necromancy or anything like that" would never have crossed my mind. Sometime, I think it boils down to this, if you have trouble discerning the difference between fantasy and reality, any fictional blurring of that line is too much. A good example is people who cry or get really upset when their character dies. Some people should not play RPGs. I can understand people being disappointed or a bit bummed when a high level character dies. But when your first level character dies, at least in OD&D, there is not real time investment there. Yes, maybe that is enough explanation (without knowing this person, of course). When I imagine recruiting inexperienced (adult) players to a game I worry about this a lot, that there will be extreme sympathy for the characters right away. Of course, there are worse things than engagement, but still. When I play, I get deeply immersed into the character and that is what I want for my players, but on the other hand I never get emotionally attached to the character. I think a lot of that is the fact that those of us who are the DMs/Refs run all the npcs all the time and many of them die, even a named npc can die in the game, so we experience the loss of a "character" much more often than the players do, so we view it differently and more realistically. So I make it really clear up front that your character may die and at low levels is very likely to die and although less likely can still die at higher levels. I point out that while as the DM/Ref I don't intentionally kill characters, a misunderstanding or misinterpretation by the players of the danger of an encounter or even a really bad run of dice rolls can kill a character. I also add that table custom is that you roll up a new character and get back in the game as soon as it works and go on. Or you can grab a Pregen from a stack and get back into the game. I also am very clear that a good chunk of encounters are battles that you cannot win and even at very high level this will happen. So if you choose to fight everything, it is certain that the characters will die sooner rather than later. One other thing I do, is I will have an adventuring party leaving town in the view of new players before they are ready to leave and then they will later come across all those dead bodies to drive the point home that the world is a dangerous place. |
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Post by hengest on Oct 4, 2021 17:15:11 GMT -5
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Oct 4, 2021 18:25:39 GMT -5
Yeah, that is all on point IMO.
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