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Post by hengest on Mar 4, 2021 21:00:17 GMT -5
"There are drawbacks to the game however; as there are in any game. D&D cannot even begin to get interesting in less than 20 hours playing time. Hundreds of hours of work must be done ahead of time by the referee, and it takes a fairly long time to prepare on the part of the players." review of OD&D by Andy Pudewa, 1975 quoted on Wikipedia. Hundreds of hours? Really? Did anyone take hundreds of hours to prepare back in the day? It doesn't sound like it from what I have read on here from people who played and reffed back then. Suppose you already know what you know but you want to start a fresh game with a player or a set of players. What kind of prep time do you need or want? Further comments welcomed. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 4, 2021 21:32:16 GMT -5
"There are drawbacks to the game however; as there are in any game. D&D cannot even begin to get interesting in less than 20 hours playing time. Hundreds of hours of work must be done ahead of time by the referee, and it takes a fairly long time to prepare on the part of the players." review of OD&D by Andy Pudewa, 1975 quoted on Wikipedia. Hundreds of hours? Really? Did anyone take hundreds of hours to prepare back in the day? It doesn't sound like it from what I have read on here from people who played and reffed back then. Suppose you already know what you know but you want to start a fresh game with a player or a set of players. What kind of prep time do you need or want? Further comments welcomed. My vote is prep optional. While I do write stuff down from time to time, I don't really prep much at all and it is not required. First of all D&D can and should get interesting in the first 15 minutes of the game by which I mean the first 15 minutes after the players have their characters ready and the referee kicks of the actual game. Second, I do not require any prep. I am ready anytime and anywhere to sit down and referee an 8 hour game with nothing but dice, a few tables and my imagination. I will do that with experienced players or with complete newbies. In college I had no prep time available. I had to study, so we did not use free time for prep, we used free time to game. During the cold months we had the longest games. During the warmer months we also did a lot of out door stuff on the weekend, so our games were shorter. Wilderness or dungeon, I can create it on the fly for as many hours as are available to play, along with original monsters and original magic items on the fly. |
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Post by hengest on Mar 4, 2021 22:28:18 GMT -5
Since I'm a completely different person that I was the last time I even attempted reffing, I think I would have to get started with PbP, email one-on-one, phone, ref-and-player one-on-one stuff to get up to speed. I don't have the social / cognitive multitasking experience to make 5 people work to start. I just don't.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 5, 2021 3:52:51 GMT -5
Since I'm a completely different person that I was the last time I even attempted reffing, I think I would have to get started with PbP, email one-on-one, phone, ref-and-player one-on-one stuff to get up to speed. I don't have the social / cognitive multitasking experience to make 5 people work to start. I just don't. I imagine that you would pick it up fairly quickly. I would suggest at least two players and don't rush, after we get a few months of action into our pbp, you might try a pbp with two players and see how it goes. For me refereeing is my element, face to face refereeing is my favorite thing in all the world to do. If I could referee 4-6 days a week for (at this point in my life) 6-8 hours a day, I would be loving it. Bitd I have run up to 29 players with myself as the one referee in a single game and that was a 12 hour game. We started game one with 12 players and one referee and over a couple of months added a few people. Over the four years we averaged about 16 players per game. About 40 total people played at least once. One thing that we had through out the four years was an audience. We always had non-players hanging out in the room and watching. Even that largest game, had another 10-12 people watching. Sometimes we had 12 players and 20 people or more just watching the game. My most recent face to face I had a high game of IIRC 14 players and 6 were under 12 years old. That was a challenge as I neither hear as well as I used to, nor do I multi-task as well either. That 14 felt tougher than the 29 college kids did bitd. Of course it was the kids first time playing and they got much better once they got the hang of it. Right now 6 players or less is good, and 8 players is quite doable. Four players is cake, but I prefer at least 6. I can do more players, but I need a well set up space to minimize outside extraneous noise. If they were all experienced and had played bitd, then I think I could still do 16. |
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Post by The Editor on Mar 7, 2021 2:11:15 GMT -5
hengest before very many people vote you should consider redoing the choices in the poll. I suggest prep optional 1 hour or less 1-2 hours 2-4 hours' 5-6 hours 6-12 hours lots of hours, no limit I marked prep optional, but given the option I would pick 1 hour or less.
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Post by simrion on Mar 7, 2021 17:42:58 GMT -5
Voted prep optional. Best ideas percolate when not planning them. I do a lot of hand waving and off-the-cuff adventure design in real time. I throw out hooks and listen to player response, oft time the players create the actual adventure.
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Post by hengest on Mar 8, 2021 0:02:51 GMT -5
hengest before very many people vote you should consider redoing the choices in the poll. I suggest prep optional 1 hour or less 1-2 hours 2-4 hours' 5-6 hours 6-12 hours lots of hours, no limit I marked prep optional, but given the option I would pick 1 hour or less. This was a good idea, but 4 people have voted and I can't figure out how to edit it, so I guess I should let it stand. Still seems impossible to me. Like an unlearnable skill. Maybe it's not so, but that's how it seems. |
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Post by Black Dow on Mar 8, 2021 2:08:25 GMT -5
I did not vote because I have never DM'd, but the thought of running it without prep, seriously blows my mind.
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Post by ripx187 on Mar 24, 2021 12:03:02 GMT -5
Thinking about the game and plotting never stops. Preparing maps, designing encounters, writing keys, creating magic items, NPC spell lists, new monsters, puzzle design. There is lots of work to do, my players pay attention and continuity is important to our group.
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Post by hengest on Mar 24, 2021 16:15:31 GMT -5
I did not vote because I have never DM'd, but the thought of running it without prep, seriously blows my mind. I am starting to get an inkling of how it might be done, Black Dow, by reading the posts by these experienced refs and playing in the PbPs here. Some general prep, trust in and familiarity with our own imagination, fairness. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 24, 2021 22:12:14 GMT -5
"There are drawbacks to the game however; as there are in any game. D&D cannot even begin to get interesting in less than 20 hours playing time. Hundreds of hours of work must be done ahead of time by the referee, and it takes a fairly long time to prepare on the part of the players." review of OD&D by Andy Pudewa, 1975 quoted on Wikipedia. Hundreds of hours? Really? Did anyone take hundreds of hours to prepare back in the day? It doesn't sound like it from what I have read on here from people who played and reffed back then. Suppose you already know what you know but you want to start a fresh game with a player or a set of players. What kind of prep time do you need or want? Further comments welcomed. You know, reading this again, I would have to say if I had hundreds of hours available for prep time, I would pour it all into world building. In hundreds of hours I could build and flesh out a dozen worlds to sit side by side. |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 24, 2021 22:13:29 GMT -5
Thinking about the game and plotting never stops. Preparing maps, designing encounters, writing keys, creating magic items, NPC spell lists, new monsters, puzzle design. There is lots of work to do, my players pay attention and continuity is important to our group. Look who is on the verge of joining the 1000 post club. (don't waste it replying to this post.  ) |
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Post by hengest on Mar 24, 2021 22:58:17 GMT -5
"There are drawbacks to the game however; as there are in any game. D&D cannot even begin to get interesting in less than 20 hours playing time. Hundreds of hours of work must be done ahead of time by the referee, and it takes a fairly long time to prepare on the part of the players." review of OD&D by Andy Pudewa, 1975 quoted on Wikipedia. Hundreds of hours? Really? Did anyone take hundreds of hours to prepare back in the day? It doesn't sound like it from what I have read on here from people who played and reffed back then. Suppose you already know what you know but you want to start a fresh game with a player or a set of players. What kind of prep time do you need or want? Further comments welcomed. You know, reading this again, I would have to say if I had hundreds of hours available for prep time, I would pour it all into world building. In hundreds of hours I could build and flesh out a dozen worlds to sit side by side. I wish I had hundreds of hours for playing! |
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Mar 25, 2021 19:46:23 GMT -5
You know, reading this again, I would have to say if I had hundreds of hours available for prep time, I would pour it all into world building. In hundreds of hours I could build and flesh out a dozen worlds to sit side by side. I wish I had hundreds of hours for playing! I do too, in a perfect world I would be refereeing about 40 hours a week and have a dozen assistants to do research and do some of my posting for me. |
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Post by hengest on Apr 5, 2022 14:05:23 GMT -5
I went back and voted, prep optional. I finally see how it can be done. I have plenty more to learn about doing it, but I see it can be done by a cognitively more or less normal (i.e. - not a genius) person like me.
I can also see how even just a couple elements pre-prepared (and I mean bare bones - like "enchanted wood" or "stairs leading down") could be plenty to reach for when you need something because the players do something unexpected, and then you riff from there.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 6, 2022 11:28:31 GMT -5
I went back and voted, prep optional. I finally see how it can be done. I have plenty more to learn about doing it, but I see it can be done by a cognitively more or less normal (i.e. - not a genius) person like me. I can also see how even just a couple elements pre-prepared (and I mean bare bones - like "enchanted wood" or "stairs leading down") could be plenty to reach for when you need something because the players do something unexpected, and then you riff from there. Cool, good to see you are learning it. I am not a genius either and I don't think it takes a genius to do it. Being a good multi-tasker helps and have really good hearing and vision helps, but also not required. I have met three bona fide geniuses in my life and I cannot fathom playing D&D with the first two, but the third was a child and that was awesome. It was fun reffing for someone that was a lot (a whole lot) smarter than I was and seeing where her mind went with things. Fortunately improv as a ref is my strength, so I just riffed off of her and it really enhanced the game. I have met a lot of really smart people in my life and there is a huge quantitative and qualitative difference between really smart and genius. |
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Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on Apr 16, 2022 1:05:12 GMT -5
I picked 1-3 hours, but I mean minimal prep. When I first started to DM I would try to prep too much and be overly concerned with details. Over time I learned to not sweat the small stuff. I come up with a few facts, a few rumors, and maybe some hints and hooks that I thought of for possible use. Of course, once the players start making decisions then it's quite possible the game will go in very different directions. Basically, one hour or less for me.
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Post by oldskolgmr on Apr 16, 2022 17:17:43 GMT -5
This was a tough one, bitd 20 years ago I could do prep time optional. Now I would prefer about 1-3 hours. This is for me to decide setting and system. If I always went OD&D for system then I would still like 1-3 hours to prep (setting choice, plotting mostly, room set up, character sheets, and brief rules hand out). Since I've been reading more about FKR I'm trying to think more about, "Playing worlds, not games [systems]", Jeff Berry (Chirine ba Kal). Norbert G. Matausch's writing has cemented that. <Edit: below is a link to some of Norbert's blog posts, enjoy.> Free Kriegspiel Revolution |
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Post by Snuffy Smith on May 18, 2022 13:22:36 GMT -5
Prep optional. Always use OD&D. Setting is a homebrew world used for years. No handouts, room has a table and chairs and everyone is responsible for their own character sheet.
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Post by Vladimir, The Dark Prince on Jun 4, 2022 23:41:50 GMT -5
Optional
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Post by nobody on Jun 16, 2022 22:04:56 GMT -5
Optional
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Post by Gawaine on Aug 8, 2022 21:08:37 GMT -5
How do you get to the prep optional stage?
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Post by DFL_GM on Aug 9, 2022 11:10:49 GMT -5
How do you get to the prep optional stage? Prep optional is mind blowing. Even after all the reading I have done here that is a fantasy. I would have loved to have watched a 19 year old PD in action. |
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Post by Molcho on Aug 11, 2022 21:27:23 GMT -5
Optional
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Armor
Prospector
Posts: 63
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Post by Armor on Aug 11, 2022 22:19:21 GMT -5
I vote for optional too.
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Kujik
Traveler
Posts: 208
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Post by Kujik on Aug 15, 2022 19:45:17 GMT -5
prep optional, including reading notes from last session.
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Post by The Man From Coventry on Aug 17, 2022 16:49:23 GMT -5
No prep needed for a solo game.
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Post by The Master on Aug 17, 2022 17:39:41 GMT -5
Optional
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Post by Dartanian on Aug 17, 2022 17:56:43 GMT -5
Optional for me as well.
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Post by Tallyman on Sept 2, 2022 12:55:13 GMT -5
In a pinch I can go with no prep, but I prefer to spend a couple of hours getting ready for a game.
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