consistently collapsing magic

[hengest]

I am reluctant to touch the magic system as part of my groping towards a setting.  

But why be reluctant?  Forward!

I want a way to make long-term magic collapse, at least behind the DM screen.  And I want it to make some degree of sense.  

I think local magic, PC-level magic doesn't have to be touched for this to work. 

After all, we could imagine two flavors of magic—one that's accessible to people these days (and happens to be identical to whatever version of DnD magic you use in the setting) and one that is no longer practiced on earth, totally unknown except through its effects as they continue today...if they continue.

For example, the post here describes a still-extant magical effect that must have once been for something.  

"One such alley that runs north-south loops back on itself during travel from south to north, making endless pursuit along it possible. This must have had a purpose when the wood was used by the local population. Or perhaps it is merely a bit of broken-down enchantment that survives when the rest of the magic has failed over the years."

What might its purpose have been?  Alone, it seems not to be excessively useful.

Suppose the wood had 10 x 8 avenues and that every other one looped in this manner in both directions.  Normal travel to and from the wood is not impeded, but a knowledgeable local will be able to use the connections to "skip" travel through the center of the wood at times.

That raises the following questions:

• what society could use such powerful long-term magic...apparently for the convenience of woodcutters?  
• Was there a purpose to the wood that is not now obvious?
• How does the magic break down to its current state?

[mao]

As to your 1st question , I think what would yield this would be a long lived race, which doesn't have to be elves or dwarves but that would be easier to use.

2 The wood purpose could be decayed magic that once had a huge number of gates and portals that once went very far and no longer capable of anything but your description

The lat question is the easiest to answer: Time..

[hengest]

On reconsidering this, I think I was overthinking things. Maybe. If you want broken magic, I guess just design broken magic?

Although, you could set up a way for it to decay that might not be super intuitive for players...a large area effect might diminish in area over years or decades, but not in strength where it's still functioning. A rumor or local memory might sound like a joke or a wild tale, but then it's still "on" in a very small place at the center of the area.

[hengest]

I think my trouble with this idea is related to my post here.

If I want players to enjoy and engage with ruined magic or other kinds of ruins, I should remember Courtney Campbell's advice, at least the general principles found here. 

"Don't give the players blind choices. Always give some sort of information with the choice. A choice with no information to distinguish between the options isn't any sort of choice at all."

I think this sounds like fine advice.  So how would I apply it in developing or playing my idea for The Caves?

I don't know.  My thought in writing these things is to put down my ideas.  Whether they're useful, I don't know.  In a way, I'm writing around my weaknesses.  I don't know how to play some of these things.  I hope someone else has an idea.  

But how might I try to handle this?  Somehow, a character or party enters The Caves.  For the moment, they seem stuck.  They can move freely.  Nothing is killing them.  But the place limits their freedom (as seen in its suppression of alien light).  They will be drawn to the few features given.  The lichen and the water.  Both glow.  

They will try to do something with them.  They will gather or drink the water.  They will try to eat the lichen.  The purpose here is a mystery, but the players should not become helpless or without meaningful choice.  

So, if I run this, I have to know that gathering the water is okay.  Eating the lichen is okay.  I do not want this to be a simple re-skin of a magic fountain table from AD&D.  

But I can decide that, while both actions are okay in that they don't do terrible harm, a character who drinks the water will become unusually aware of the water in the surrounding chambers and will feel they can sense the pool described, even if it is several chambers away.  Drinking the water will give information that the character can act on or ignore.  The pool-chamber can be found without drinking the water, as well.  

So, while this may not be the best idea ever, I don't think it's a disaster for player engagement and agency yet.

As to what happens in the pool chamber, again, drinking the water is an obvious choice that is not forced on them.  But, if there's too little to do, it may feel forced.  I think that's okay.  This is an unusual circumstance where choices are limited.  But if there is no way out of the microplane other than by drinking the water and engaging with the giant figure in some way not described in the post, that's a problem.  A bit of a railroad situation.  I suppose the overall flavor and freedom of the campaign would determine whether this was a problem here.  

Think about this more.

Edit: The Caves could easily be tweaked to be in regular space.  Escapable.  Go out the way you came in, or press on and drink the water.  I like it as a "pocket-world," though.  Of course, anyone who wants to run it can tweak it any way that works.  It doesn't have to be perfect.  But it's still not clear to me whether this is a not bad idea.  Is it too railroady?  I suppose that depends on what interactions with the figure are possible and whether there's another findable way out.  

[hengest]

This idea was completely crazy. Maybe it was useful for me somehow, but a couple years in, I don't see much value in pursuing this. Who knows, maybe I'l change my mind again...

[El Borak]

Dec 4, 2021 22:43:14 GMT -5 hengest said:

This idea was completely crazy. Maybe it was useful for me somehow, but a couple years in, I don't see much value in pursuing this. Who knows, maybe I'l change my mind again...

I liked these ideas and I also think that giving out extra information if the players take certain actions is fine and if they don't take those actions, then they miss out is also fine. Some ideas just need to set for a while, even a long while. Don't be hard on yourself, just record your ideas and when the time is right they will be used. Hopefully others will comment and that my spur new ideas.