Character Creation and Musing on Kits

[The Perilous Dreamer]

I love the speed of character creation in OD&D, on the other hand I also realize that people coming to the game do not usually have the depth and  breadth of exposure to older fantasy (pre-Tolkien) and pulp writing that I and others, as well as, the founders of the game had. So it is useful to provide them with starter ideas without inadvertently stiffling the growth of their ideas or "setting the mold too small" or accidentally falsely conveying the fallacy of The One True Way as something other than a fallacy.

Given these parameters and recognizing that there are major problems with the kits in 2E as written, namely that they are 1. written for NPCs and not for PCs and 2. that they are just IMO poorly written for play purposes; what I propose is a rewrite using ideas from 2E and elsewhere to come up with "soft" "guidelines" for character creation. Character creation that can be done up front with collaboration between player and DM, i.e. what do you want to do and will that work with my campaign as I have outlined it.

Part of that will involve the background of the PC. I propose that the group of players decide what social class they are mostly from as that would affect their starting knowledge and experience. Also for the PCs that are of a difference social class, why would they be together. Is one PC a servant of another PC? Or one of a hundred other things.

[mao]

I need a clearer idea of what exactly you are hoping to do here, Im not getting it.

[El Borak]

I think that is the point, a lot of loose guidelines and suggestions without any hard and fast rules, very loosey goosey.

[mao]

Jul 16, 2019 16:03:00 GMT -5 El Borak said:

I think that is the point, a lot of loose guidelines and suggestions without any hard and fast rules, very loosey goosey.

loosey goosey is my midddle name

[eldrad]

3D6 in order 6 times,
roll d6 for HP,
3D6X10 for gold,
buy stuff,
start playing in 10 minutes or less.
No classes, play your class.
No skills but a background.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Here are a few thoughts.

Since you have to change stuff and not just reprint the rules the way you use them. I am going with the following three classes.

Fighting-Men becomes Warriors and would include Rangers and other things, but all still called Warriors.
Magic-Users becomes Wizards
Clerics become Warrior Priests i.e. basically a Paladin but much re-written.

I like 3d6 in order and have used it more than not over the years, but I like other options too.  I will include an option for using exceptional stats, if you roll an 18 then roll d10,000. (I have a set of dice for that)

The game with have no skills but will have some basic abilities determined by a brief background (100 words or less).

Roll 1d8 for starting hit points plus stat adjustments

Roll 3d10 for starting Silver (Silver Standard)

Buy stuff - starting kits to choose from and then add to. This is to speed up selecting equipment.

[eldrad]

Want a Thief (Some of you don't)? Fighting Man wears leather armor, sneaks around and steals stuff. Maybe he just didn't roll well on his hit points.

You could try and get rid of all rules that you can to completely streamline the game. Only Magic-Users and Clerics really need additional rules.

Although simple, my RPG Back to the Dungeon became too clunky compared to the original.

I like the simplicity of S&W where 15+ gives a bonus BUT an 18 should mean something like a whopping +2!

The traditional D6 for skills/task or a really simplified D20 vs a target number or roll below attribute which I think is too generous?

Monster are cut down like OD&D with AC/HD/Movement and a small description.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Dec 23, 2019 1:59:47 GMT -5 eldrad said:

Want a Thief (Some of you don't)? Fighting Man wears leather armor, sneaks around and steals stuff. Maybe he just didn't roll well on his hit points.

You could try and get rid of all rules that you can to completely streamline the game. Only Magic-Users and Clerics really need additional rules.

Although simple, my RPG Back to the Dungeon became too clunky compared to the original.

I like the simplicity of S&W where 15+ gives a bonus BUT an 18 should mean something like a whopping +2!

The traditional D6 for skills/task or a really simplified D20 vs a target number or roll below attribute which I think is too generous?

Monster are cut down like OD&D with AC/HD/Movement and a small description.

Good ideas there eldrad, I am planning on incorporating the thief stuff into all the characters to some extent. A player should be able to play a Gray Mouser or a Fafhrd or a Conan or a Soloman Kane type if they want to. Or take a pregen that I rolled up and just play and develop as you go.

[eldrad]

Roll Stats, Roll Money Buy Stuff, Play.

Monsters have AC, HD and Movement plus any damage/effects they do.

Goblin AC 15 HD1 Move 20' Weapon 1D6 or Ranged 1D6

AC is 10 none, Light is 12, Medium is 14 and Heavy is 16. A shield adds +1 and Dex bonuses add to the AC.

Saves are 10 + 1/2 of HD or Level. You get spells after some sort of magical harrowing or test by the gods. Arcane gets Level plus Int and Divine gets Level plus Wisdom in spells per day.

Spells come in weak to powerful. A per Round is the weakest and Cheapest 50 g.p. and Per Year Decade 10,000 g.p. ECT is the most powerful. You must wait the time allocated before that spell slot is available again.

Spells come in: Per Round, Per Battle, Per Day, Per Week, Per Month, Half a Year, Year, Decade, Century, ECT

Attacks are 1/2 HD or Level PLUS Attribute Bonus.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

So AC 15 would be AC 4 in OD&D equivalent to Chain & Shield.

[hengest]

Jul 3, 2019 21:35:58 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Part of that will involve the background of the PC. I propose that the group of players decide what social class they are mostly from as that would affect their starting knowledge and experience. Also for the PCs that are of a difference social class, why would they be together. Is one PC a servant of another PC? Or one of a hundred other things.

I have never really seen this done and I like it.  Is it common?  I'd love to play a servant of another PC, it would help me to drop my habit of non-motivation. 

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Mar 2, 2021 17:54:39 GMT -5 hengest said:

Jul 3, 2019 21:35:58 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

Part of that will involve the background of the PC. I propose that the group of players decide what social class they are mostly from as that would affect their starting knowledge and experience. Also for the PCs that are of a difference social class, why would they be together. Is one PC a servant of another PC? Or one of a hundred other things.

I have never really seen this done and I like it.  Is it common?  I'd love to play a servant of another PC, it would help me to drop my habit of non-motivation. 

No, I don't think this is common, I have never seen it done. I came up with this as something that I would like to try. I think it would be best play-tested face to face, although at some point I may do it as play by post.

I like what you say here:

I'd love to play a servant of another PC, it would help me to drop my habit of non-motivation.

I have heard other people with this same problem.

[eldrad]

Some Advice:
Get started with at least the most basic of rules to make a character, choose spells (only make the low level spells you need) and a simple equipment list. ONLY write what you need to GET STARTED! Make it like only 10 pages or so! Make it so!

[hengest]

Jul 3, 2019 21:35:58 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I love the speed of character creation in OD&D, on the other hand I also realize that people coming to the game do not usually have the depth and  breadth of exposure to older fantasy (pre-Tolkien) and pulp writing that I and others, as well as, the founders of the game had. So it is useful to provide them with starter ideas without inadvertently stiffling the growth of their ideas or "setting the mold too small" or accidentally falsely conveying the fallacy of The One True Way as something other than a fallacy.

Given these parameters and recognizing that there are major problems with the kits in 2E as written, namely that they are 1. written for NPCs and not for PCs and 2. that they are just IMO poorly written for play purposes; what I propose is a rewrite using ideas from 2E and elsewhere to come up with "soft" "guidelines" for character creation. Character creation that can be done up front with collaboration between player and DM, i.e. what do you want to do and will that work with my campaign as I have outlined it.

Part of that will involve the background of the PC. I propose that the group of players decide what social class they are mostly from as that would affect their starting knowledge and experience. Also for the PCs that are of a difference social class, why would they be together. Is one PC a servant of another PC? Or one of a hundred other things.

Completely forgot about this. Like it. 

One might even play with the PCs as normal people at first and after some time they may "break through" into being exceptional at which time there might appear some definitions of their abilities...

I remember in PD's now-paused PbP, I had the PC on foot and the servant mounted, that was fun.

[The Perilous Dreamer]

Aug 29, 2022 15:26:28 GMT -5 hengest said:

Jul 3, 2019 21:35:58 GMT -5 The Perilous Dreamer said:

I love the speed of character creation in OD&D, on the other hand I also realize that people coming to the game do not usually have the depth and  breadth of exposure to older fantasy (pre-Tolkien) and pulp writing that I and others, as well as, the founders of the game had. So it is useful to provide them with starter ideas without inadvertently stiffling the growth of their ideas or "setting the mold too small" or accidentally falsely conveying the fallacy of The One True Way as something other than a fallacy.

Given these parameters and recognizing that there are major problems with the kits in 2E as written, namely that they are 1. written for NPCs and not for PCs and 2. that they are just IMO poorly written for play purposes; what I propose is a rewrite using ideas from 2E and elsewhere to come up with "soft" "guidelines" for character creation. Character creation that can be done up front with collaboration between player and DM, i.e. what do you want to do and will that work with my campaign as I have outlined it.

Part of that will involve the background of the PC. I propose that the group of players decide what social class they are mostly from as that would affect their starting knowledge and experience. Also for the PCs that are of a difference social class, why would they be together. Is one PC a servant of another PC? Or one of a hundred other things.

Completely forgot about this. Like it. 

One might even play with the PCs as normal people at first and after some time they may "break through" into being exceptional at which time there might appear some definitions of their abilities...

I remember in PD's now-paused PbP, I had the PC on foot and the servant mounted, that was fun.

I had too and I hope to someday get back to it.

[hengest]

There is a LOT of material on this board, more than enough to forget about roughly 95% of it and still feel like there is stuff here.