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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 26, 2019 20:59:12 GMT -5
Those are my kind of questions! Are you asking for stories about Blackmoor? Yes About any of the gaming we did, in other campaigns and games? Also Yes Yes and also David and other people, also other people, and of course we want to hear stories about you. And do not feel like you have to limit yourself to gaming. I could easily fill pages with stories about those days. I was interviewed for the movie (Secrets of Blackmoor), for an entire day, and I am just one of many interviewed. I believe that Griff has at least a couple hundred hours of film to use. Fill as many pages as you like, the one thing that Proboards does is give us unlimited space. David was one of the smartest and friendliest people I ever knew. He could handle any situation (in real life and in a game), and I do not remember him ever being mad. He was also very patient. My first experience with Blackmoor was a playtest game, where he determined the rules would not work after my Hero was killed in one blow by a Troll. After that, I refused to play in the campaign for a while; as a result, when I finally participated in adventures, my characters were not good enough to survive. When I told David that I was giving up, he sat down with me for several hours ,teaching me and building up my characters until I could survive in the future. I have heard all of those things about David, so I am not surprised that he worked with you like that. I have done much the same myself and considering I game with friends or friends to be, I expect that from myself and hope anyone I train would do the same. I backed the first Secrets of Blackmoor movie and am looking forward to seeing it. I hope that ultimately any film that remains unused after all the movies are made, is transcribed for posterity.
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Post by robertthebald on Apr 28, 2019 20:23:40 GMT -5
I will start with the basics. I grew up in a rural area just west of Minneapolis. I learned to play chess when I was five or six years old, and have been hooked on games ever since, playing just about any game available. We moved closer to the city when I was a teen, where I found more gamers in high school, so I could give my brother a respite from all the gaming we did. This is where I met Svenson, Funk, the Belfry brothers, and a few others. I attended the University of Minnesota after high school, where I met more gamers (who I call the St. Paul group). This included Arneson, Wesely, Maker, Gaylord, Nicholson, Megarry, the Snider brothers, and others. The group kept growing larger as we met people at the U of M, and discovered more from University of St Thomas and the local game shops. One entire group of gamers (including Mike Carr), became aware of us when they met some of us in Lake Geneva. Some of us lived in an apartment near the U of M. This is where John Snider first had us play his space campaign game. There was no room for anyone else, so Megarry rented a house (also near the U of M), and we moved in there. We would play games starting in the evening, and keep going until sunrise. As time went by, we married and started careers, but still found time to play games. I will give more details on the people and games later.
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Post by robertthebald on Apr 30, 2019 20:05:20 GMT -5
The St Paul guys (Midwest Military Simulation Society), hereafter to be referred to as MMSA, were playing this huge miniatures campaign in the 60's. The setting was in the Napoleonic wars, and was being run by David Arneson. David Wesely had already run his Braunstein game. Mike Carr had invented his Fight in the Skies game (now called Dawn Patrol). They were also playing other games, including Avalon Hill, Parker Brothers, Fletcher Pratt, and others. The Napoleonic games were normally done in Arneson's parents house, in their basement. We also had access to rooms at local game shops, the U of M, and later at St Thomas. We also played in the apartment, and later the rented house, and at some of the guy's houses. The Universities were particularly important for the naval miniatures games (usually 1 to 1200 scale), as we needed large spaces for those. Arneson printed a broadside called The Corner of the Table to keep people informed of the events in the Napoleonic Campaign, and to inform people of upcoming gaming events When I joined in the late 60's, the Napoleonic Campaign was starting to have real problems (too large, too many disputes, people not having time). David allowed it to fade away, and invented the game that became Blackmoor to replace it. We were still playing the other games also, and mostly gamed on the weekends. This included FITS, which we played a lot. We also played these monster games of that time, such as Drang Nach Osten, which we set up (in Peter Gaylord"s basement) and left in place to play over the period of several weeks. Blackmoor grabbed our attention, and came to dominate our gaming over the years. The other guys were also inventing their other games, such as John Snider's Space Campaign. A one off game that David Wesely ran is still one of my favorite memories. It was a miniatures game recreating the Battle of Bladensburg (24 August 1814). If you read about the battle, you will find that it was an extremely confused and very badly managed affair on the part of the Americans. Wesely set up the battle to recreate this confusion. Each of the American commanders were given their commands and orders, and kept in the dark about the other commanders orders and commands. We could only talk to another person when our commander figures were adjacent on the battlefield. Some of the guys were given historical figures who believed they were in command, so we also had conflicting orders to fulfill. None of us knew of this battle beforehand, but we managed to recreate the battle almost exactly the way it happened historically. The Americans lost, and the British went on to burn the American capitol. We learned a lot of history from the games we played.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on Apr 30, 2019 20:40:03 GMT -5
A one off game that David Wesely ran is still one of my favorite memories. It was a miniatures game recreating the Battle of Bladensburg (24 August 1814). If you read about the battle, you will find that it was an extremely confused and very badly managed affair on the part of the Americans. Wesely set up the battle to recreate this confusion. Each of the American commanders were given their commands and orders, and kept in the dark about the other commanders orders and commands. We could only talk to another person when our commander figures were adjacent on the battlefield. Some of the guys were given historical figures who believed they were in command, so we also had conflicting orders to fulfill. None of us knew of this battle beforehand, but we managed to recreate the battle almost exactly the way it happened historically. The Americans lost, and the British went on to burn the American capitol. We learned a lot of history from the games we played. Yeah, I think we learn a lot from all the games we play. I have always had the impression that David Wesely was very good on the setup part of the any game. I have read about the battle and it is pretty cool that it turned out so closely to the real world. Not on topic but as an aside. (Hey I love alternate history stories) (The War of 1812 was a dark time in our history - partly due to poor military leadership and partly due to Napoleons debacles with Spain and Portugal on the one hand and with Russia on the other hand. Perhaps if things had went a little bit differently we would have owned all of Canada as part of the US. British troops could have been forced to focus completely on Napoleon.)
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Post by robertthebald on May 1, 2019 15:43:13 GMT -5
A one off game that David Wesely ran is still one of my favorite memories. It was a miniatures game recreating the Battle of Bladensburg (24 August 1814). If you read about the battle, you will find that it was an extremely confused and very badly managed affair on the part of the Americans. Wesely set up the battle to recreate this confusion. Each of the American commanders were given their commands and orders, and kept in the dark about the other commanders orders and commands. We could only talk to another person when our commander figures were adjacent on the battlefield. Some of the guys were given historical figures who believed they were in command, so we also had conflicting orders to fulfill. None of us knew of this battle beforehand, but we managed to recreate the battle almost exactly the way it happened historically. The Americans lost, and the British went on to burn the American capitol. We learned a lot of history from the games we played. Yeah, I think we learn a lot from all the games we play. I have always had the impression that David Wesely was very good on the setup part of the any game. I have read about the battle and it is pretty cool that it turned out so closely to the real world. Not on topic but as an aside. (Hey I love alternate history stories) (The War of 1812 was a dark time in our history - partly due to poor military leadership and partly due to Napoleons debacles with Spain and Portugal on the one hand and with Russia on the other hand. Perhaps if things had went a little bit differently we would have owned all of Canada as part of the US. British troops could have been forced to focus completely on Napoleon.) The battle was really fated to mirror the historical battle, given the same conditions as the historical battle.This just shows how good David was in the way he set up the game. As to alternate history, anything is possible. The Canadians actually did more to repel the Americans than the British did, and they were not interested in being part of the US. This is true even today. Part of it is that a lot of American loyalists moved to Canada after the Revolutionary War ended. Our conquering Canada would have ended badly no matter what happened. This is really wishful thinking on our part. The Canadians have proved to be our most loyal allies and trading partners, so it was good that we failed. By the way, the producers of Secrets of Blackmoor have talked about the possibility of using the unused footage to produce a couple more movies if the financing can be worked out. I would very much like to see that happen.
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Post by robertthebald on May 1, 2019 20:07:03 GMT -5
I have been very lucky in my gaming with so many good people, and even luckier that so many of them have been willing to run (and even invent) games and campaigns for us. I am seeing this now in people I meet and talk to, and read about in these forums. The people I game with are actually more important to me than the game itself. Indeed, they have ended up being my lifelong friends.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 1, 2019 20:59:26 GMT -5
By the way, the producers of Secrets of Blackmoor have talked about the possibility of using the unused footage to produce a couple more movies if the financing can be worked out. I would very much like to see that happen. I am hoping that this will be successful enough to fund the next movie and so on down the line. But if it is short of that I also think running additional Kickstarters would be the way to go. Once I get my copy and get to watch the whole thing, I intend to talk and blog about it. I am hoping many others do too!
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 1, 2019 21:00:28 GMT -5
I have been very lucky in my gaming with so many good people, and even luckier that so many of them have been willing to run (and even invent) games and campaigns for us. I am seeing this now in people I meet and talk to, and read about in these forums. The people I game with are actually more important to me than the game itself. Indeed, they have ended up being my lifelong friends.The part I placed in bold, quoted for truth!
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Post by robertthebald on May 2, 2019 12:39:00 GMT -5
I was not looking forward to attending Garycon this year, even though I was invited and they did everything they could to make me comfortable. This included arranging for a place to stay and setting up my games for me. I am so very glad that I attended. Everyone was friendly and welcoming to me. I made new friends there that I look forward to seeing again. I do not care to travel, but readily accepted an invitation to attend another convention, in addition to coming back to Garycon again next year. This is what I have found on these forums also. I only joined them to say hello to an old friend I discovered on one, and who lives in Florida now. The welcome, not to mention the enthusiasm, that I was given there has expanded my world in a wonderful way.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 2, 2019 17:39:17 GMT -5
I happy that you feel that way about things, it has always been my hope that is the experience every member will have. Everyone has a story to tell and everyone's story has something to teach you if you take the time to listen. That is the only drawback to sitting at a keyboard, we cannot see the body language or hear the voice. On the other hand I can read so many more stories than I could ever listen to. But it is great when life brings you a mixture of both.
I am really looking forward to your sharing of more tales from days of yore! Question, what were some of the features you remember of the Blackmoor Dungeons?
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Post by robertthebald on May 3, 2019 22:28:38 GMT -5
I always worry about how I come across to people when I am typing, for the same reasons you bring up. I think (hope) I come across better in person.
As to the dungeons, I have always considered them deathtraps (probably because of my first experiences in them), and I avoid them as much as possible. I did end up adventuring in Blackmoor dungeon after the disastrous end to my Skandaherion adventure. I was flat broke and needed some treasure to start over again.
Dungeons seem to be all or nothing. You end up rich or dead. I can only talk about what the other guys have talked about in other forums. The Orcs took over Blackmoor dungeon at one time, and set up in several levels there. The King of the Orcs was Fred Funk. He was an extreme Anglophile (he was the commander of the British at the Battle of Bladensburg), and built what was called the Orcian Way there. As you went down the corridor you heard music (Rule Britannia), ended up at a spiral staircase, which took you up a distance. This was a trap. You exited a door at the top. The door closed behind you, and disappeared. You where now a distance high up in the air over Blackmoor Bay, and dropping fast. If you where lucky, and shed your armor, equipment, and treasure, fast enough: then you could swim ashore. I never experienced this myself.
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Post by El Borak on May 4, 2019 11:17:41 GMT -5
I always worry about how I come across to people when I am typing, for the same reasons you bring up. I think (hope) I come across better in person. You are coming across quite well here! As to the dungeons, I have always considered them deathtraps (probably because of my first experiences in them), and I avoid them as much as possible. I did end up adventuring in Blackmoor dungeon after the disastrous end to my Skandaherion adventure. I was flat broke and needed some treasure to start over again. Dungeons seem to be all or nothing. You end up rich or dead. Well that tells us quite a bit about how David ran his dungeons. That matches my experience, of course if you keep going back to get rich, you either succeed or you don't come back. I can only talk about what the other guys have talked about in other forums. The Orcs took over Blackmoor dungeon at one time, and set up in several levels there. The King of the Orcs was Fred Funk. He was an extreme Anglophile (he was the commander of the British at the Battle of Bladensburg), and built what was called the Orcian Way there. As you went down the corridor you heard music (Rule Britannia), ended up at a spiral staircase, which took you up a distance. This was a trap. You exited a door at the top. The door closed behind you, and disappeared. You were now a distance high up in the air over Blackmoor Bay, and dropping fast. If you were lucky, and shed your armor, equipment, and treasure, fast enough: then you could swim ashore. I never experienced this myself. Wow! That would have been a hoot the first time it happened, except for the player it happened too. I take it this happened to more than one player on more than one occasion? I have read that Fred Funk's game was wild and wooly.
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Post by robertthebald on May 4, 2019 21:01:28 GMT -5
Thank you, El Borak. That makes me feel a lot better.
All the dungeons, whoever built them, were like that in Blackmoor and the surrounding area. I always preferred outdoors adventures myself.
It took a while for us to catch on to Fred's trap, so yes, it happened more than once. Occasionally, a new player would stumble across it again, especially if they were being chased through the corridors.
I adventured with Fred, so I know how he could be. One adventure, I had a very impressive character (lots of hit points, magic sword, magic armor), and Fred had a magic user that had acquired a fireball throwing wand somewhere. Fred loved firepower, and would always use a sledgehammer instead of a regular hammer when given a choice. We were camped at night when we were attacked by a band of orcs. I drew my sword, and ended up in the middle of them. Fred could not see them, but he could see my sword glowing, and knew I would be in the middle of the fight. He used me for the aiming point to throw his fireballs, knowing he would not do too much damage to me. So there I was, yelling "Knock it off, Fred!", and Fred kept saying "What is the problem, we are beating them". He was right of course, but I felt like I was in a Three Stooges movie. We did beat them off.
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Post by robertthebald on May 8, 2019 23:11:09 GMT -5
I have just come home from the premier showing of Secrets of Blackmoor here in Minneapolis. The producers did a fantastic job in putting the movie together. If you watch the movie, this should answer a lot of your questions about us and that time.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 13, 2019 23:47:15 GMT -5
I have just come home from the premier showing of Secrets of Blackmoor here in Minneapolis. The producers did a fantastic job in putting the movie together. If you watch the movie, this should answer a lot of your questions about us and that time. I am waiting on the DVD to arrive, I am not sure how long yet I have to go with that, but really looking forward to it.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 10:05:33 GMT -5
I am waiting on the DVD to arrive, I am not sure how long yet I have to go with that, but really looking forward to it. I would love to read your review, whether in-depth or just a quick couple of lines, after you've watched it.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 14, 2019 16:49:06 GMT -5
I am waiting on the DVD to arrive, I am not sure how long yet I have to go with that, but really looking forward to it. I would love to read your review, whether in-depth or just a quick couple of lines, after you've watched it. I do want to do a review of it, since I think there will be a lot that I want to comment on.
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Post by True Black Raven on May 18, 2019 19:43:33 GMT -5
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Post by robertthebald on May 21, 2019 22:27:44 GMT -5
I apologize for my absence. Life happens. More on Secrets of Blackmoor. The premier was a Red Carpet Premier hosted by Twin Cities Film Fest. Miss Shannon from the Film Fest did interviews at the theater before the movie, and a question and answer with Chris and Griff after the movie. Kevin has posted these on his facebook page (castleblackmoor), along with more videos and pictures he took there. I am afraid I abandoned my wife before the movie, as I was seeing people there that I had not seen for years, and others that I have only met by computer. I did sit with her during the movie, which she liked even though she does not understand gaming. I have been preparing for the Annual Blackmoor Game. I have so many people wanting to play ( around 40 at last count), that I had to come up with a scenario to accommodate all of them. Fortunately, two good friends will help me as Gamemasters for this game, and are helping to set it up. This will have a Blackmoor setting, but will almost play like a Braunstein also.
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Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 22, 2019 1:32:06 GMT -5
I apologize for my absence. Life happens. More on Secrets of Blackmoor. The premier was a Red Carpet Premier hosted by Twin Cities Film Fest. Miss Shannon from the Film Fest did interviews at the theater before the movie, and a question and answer with Chris and Griff after the movie. Kevin has posted these on his facebook page (castleblackmoor), along with more videos and pictures he took there. I am afraid I abandoned my wife before the movie, as I was seeing people there that I had not seen for years, and others that I have only met by computer. I did sit with her during the movie, which she liked even though she does not understand gaming. I have been preparing for the Annual Blackmoor Game. I have so many people wanting to play ( around 40 at last count), that I had to come up with a scenario to accommodate all of them. Fortunately, two good friends will help me as Gamemasters for this game, and are helping to set it up. This will have a Blackmoor setting, but will almost play like a Braunstein also. No apology needed, we all have a lot of life happening, even our younger members.
I will have to check out Kevin's page.
Love to hear more about the Annual Blackmoor Game, especially a report after this one while it is all fresh in your mind. Forty players, a ref and two assistants or split into three groups?
I started playing with a ref and 12 players in college. Over a four year period we playing many games with 16-20 players and several in the 20's. The largest group I ran was 30 players split equally between men and women in one game. I could not do that now. About 6 years ago, almost everyone showed up the same game and I ran one with 15 players (6 of them between 10-15) and that stretched me quite a bit, but it was a lot of fun. When I was in college I could keep track of it all in my head, but I think now at 63, about 10-12 would be my limit.
I would love to hear more about running a Braunstein, too.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 9:00:55 GMT -5
More on Secrets of Blackmoor. [snip]
Thanks for the after-action report.
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Post by robertthebald on May 22, 2019 15:05:08 GMT -5
Dreamer, The game will be on May 26 (next Sunday). I will give an after action report next week after the game, which should answer your questions. I am expecting Kevin to be there, and he always takes videos and pictures which he posts on his facebook page. When you watch Secrets of Blackmoor, you will have an idea as to how a Braunstein is played. Basically, I have different groups of people that will have to interact with each other. Some of these groups are a surprise for the main group of adventurers, that will enter the game at some time after the game starts. Each group has their own objectives, that may or not be compatible with the other groups objectives. If they decide to cooperate, they will all come out much better; if they do not cooperate, then anything could happen. I have been telling everyone that this game will be epic. The only question will be whether it will be good epic or bad epic. This game will determine what happens in the campaign from then onwards.
Akatonbo, You are very welcome.
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Post by Admin Pete on May 24, 2019 12:06:19 GMT -5
Dreamer, The game will be on May 26 (next Sunday). I will give an after action report next week after the game, which should answer your questions. I am expecting Kevin to be there, and he always takes videos and pictures which he posts on his facebook page. When you watch Secrets of Blackmoor, you will have an idea as to how a Braunstein is played. Basically, I have different groups of people that will have to interact with each other. Some of these groups are a surprise for the main group of adventurers, that will enter the game at some time after the game starts. Each group has their own objectives, that may or not be compatible with the other groups objectives. If they decide to cooperate, they will all come out much better; if they do not cooperate, then anything could happen. I have been telling everyone that this game will be epic. The only question will be whether it will be good epic or bad epic. This game will determine what happens in the campaign from then onwards. Akatonbo, You are very welcome. An after action report of your Annual Game will be very welcome and should be very informative. I am quite interested in seeing how three DMs coordinate such a sizable group.
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Post by Mighty Darci on May 24, 2019 18:34:01 GMT -5
Who is Kevin and where is he found on Facebook?
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Post by robertthebald on May 24, 2019 21:52:30 GMT -5
Who is Kevin and where is he found on Facebook? Kevin McColl, and his facebook page is www.facebook.com/BlackmoorCastle/. This is the same page has has videos and pictures of the Secrets of Blackmoor premier and of Garycon, including some of the games I ran at that convention.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 0:53:39 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
And a question for you, Robert the Bald, although I'm aware that maybe you don't know the answer to it. You stated that only Arneson knew the rules for the game and that you as the players didn't have any idea about it. I'm anyway curious about something regarding the rules you, or rather he, used. I've seen several times a list of characters with several skills/abilities that they had, from 'brains' to 'sword' and things like 'smithing'. Each of those skills had a value numbers associated with it, that never was above 12. How did you resolve actions? Throwing two 6-sided dice in order to beat that number so you can succeed with the skill being used?
And, concerning some of the things that have been said previously in this thread: I heartily agree with the statements that less rules equals more fun and that players don't have to deal with them, since that will stagnate their creativity and hinder them when having to think in character. My favourite version of the game is the original from the 3LBBs, which I use as a loose basis for my games. Unfortunately my players insisted on having to play AD&D 2e, since those are the rules they're more familiar with. Now the two that insisted the most on it are regretting playing clerics (so many spells! :-) ) Each time I open those massive rulebooks I sigh in desperation. It's the same when I'm on the other side of the screen: each time I wanted to take part in a campaign run by another GM (for another systems too), I quickly became disheartened when they required us the players to make a masters degree in order to say what our characters want to do. Nope. It's a game, not a chore to add up to our daily tasks.
Greetings from the other side of the pond.
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Post by robertthebald on May 25, 2019 22:35:34 GMT -5
Hello baldorar,
Greetings from this side of the pond. The game kept evolving all the time. In the beginning two six sided dice were used (2-12). This became three six sided dice (3-18), then decimal dice (2-20). I no longer remember how David used our die rolls to compare against our skill factor. I know that the higher the skill factor the better. In my Blackmoor games I have tremendously simplified the things that the players need to know by taking care of most of it myself as the Gamemaster. They tell me the action they are taking, and I determine the results. This is not determined randomly, I do have a system. The players do not have a problem with this style of play.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 1:34:53 GMT -5
Thank you Robert,
I't interesting to see how things evolve and change. The experimenting with the rules is something I really love. One of my players always tells me he is too. The problem is that he's the one who have the least available time!
Some day I'll be able to convince my friends of playing without them having to worry about the rules. They always tell me that they have to have some stats in front of them in order to know 'what's going on' or what the 'can' do. Of course, it doesn't make any sense :-)
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 14:26:39 GMT -5
Hi Mr. Meyer, Could you please reveal how you deal with damage and hit points?
Greetings from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
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Post by El Borak on May 27, 2019 15:53:40 GMT -5
Hi Mr. Meyer, Could you please reveal how you deal with damage and hit points?
Greetings from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Yes, please tell us about how you run things in your game.
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