|
Post by Malcadon on Oct 2, 2018 14:35:21 GMT -5
My kind of establishment.
I'll assume that most of the people here know about Star Frontiers.
I'm well aware that SF has enough of a following to produce freely-available fan-made reproduction version of the old rules, along with at least two fanzines dedicated to the game. The SF community did a lot to improve upon the old game (to which I contributed here and there), and yet, my feeling about the game is still mixed. There is a lot that I dislike about the game, and yet, there are a few things I really like about it enough to use in my own sci-fi games.
Although not common knowledge, in the game's development, it was going to be a space opera on the level of Traveller, but management said "Lets dumb it down for children.", aka "Lets do something that has never worked in the history of ever!". It also going to five playable races, but management said "We need this game to be 'D&D in space', so we need Space-Orcs.", so they took one of the races — the worn-like Sathar — and made them into "The bad guys". Oh, how I hate the Sathar! I hated them form the start! The game always tried to present them as "the red menace" from Cold War era fiction, while also wrapping them in a mystery-box, but there are three problems with this: 1) They have no real stated goals or motivation, just a butch of mustache twirling villains trying to take over the world; 2) they never go anywhere with the mystery; and 3) they ruin the mystery by showing what they look like. I would rather have them presented as a faceless menace, like a mind-controlling parasitic creature, who leave evidence of mind-control, but the players are left guessing to what they rally look like. But no, they where just stupid and baring. Although, in Dragon Magazine, they introduced the S'sessu as a means to bring back the worn-like aliens as a good (relatively speaking), playable race.
I was never a fan of the rules, as it is a hot mess, which is not surprising, as the game was revised, cobbled together form two different teams and rushed to market. I once played with the rules normally; never liked it. I would take another, mostly house-ruled game system and use it instead. Although, the one rule I liked was Robot Level. Basically, level 1 is a mindless drone with no ability to do anything beyond what it is programed for, like a modern factory-line robot, while level 6 is an A.I that can rewrite its own directives. I use this system for computer CPUs, and the Robots found in Gamma World and Mutant Future. I used to not like the Computer rules, as the smallest ones are as heavy as a person and more complex computers would take-up a small building, but once you remember that it was a product of the 1980s and remember that they are old-school mainframe computers, they make a lot more sense.
I find the spaceship rules in Knight Hawks supplement to be broken and largely unusable. Movement is flawed, even for something like Star Wars. Space Fighters are nothing but suicide capsules that becomes useless after firing their third missile. I love Assault Scouts, but they have too little HP for their size to make them usable, as well as their inability to reload on a Fighter Carrier. The ship construction rules are a mess! Although, one thing that SF:KH spoiled me on is the way the decks of spaceships are arranged. Instead of what you see in all the other sci-fi movies and shows, the ships in KH are arranged in a nose-at-the-top fashion to take advantage of they way momentum creates gravity. I like this arrangement beyond even Star Frontiers. Also, a fan found an image of a spaceship online (from an old anime) and used it as a non-combat/non-military Scoutship with enough room for a whole character party to crew. Besides the size, it also looks really nice. Much like a submarine, there is no room or privacy... which I like!
(click for larger image)
The setting is OK, but was never relevant. After all, if it really is "D&D in space" than GMs should dismiss the prefab "Frontier Sector" in favor of a homemade sector. There are a number of things I like to do differently. I would have the star systems spread out with empty star systems to separate the more populated systems, while leaving room for hidden pirate bases and disputed systems between civilized systems. Being a fan of cyberpunk games, I have the main enemy as the Pan-Galactic Corporation: A Mega-Corporation so powerful, it controls the government, the elections and the media. "The Sathar" are just a made-up foreign threat used by the government and the PGC to keep everyone in line and as a scapegoat for all the social unrest. (A key piece of into that I do not tell to my players.) So when I run the Introduction Scenarios where the players play "Problem Solvers", they are actually playing thugs hired to find and take out anti-corp freedom-fighters in the name of fighting a fabricated alien menace from beyond known space. In my games, the PCs are still independent Spacers who are often competing against the giant PGC, but occasionally do dealings with the PGC or one of their lesser competitors. Where the default SF game use Port Loren as the go-to location for urban adventurer, I pull out the Space Station Map for the Knight Hawks set as Port Haven: The center of galactic trade and commerce that also has services and establishments that makes the wilder places of Las Vegas look like the quaintest parts of Disneyland. Like with regular SF, I try to keep the adventures more pulp than hard sci-fi, but with things here and there to make it feel grounded.
Most of all, I like the races. On top of the "core fore" (as fans call it), I also have the S'sessu. As most of my players are cat-lovers, I remade the Monkey-like Yazarians as felinoids. After reading about SF's development (as Alien Worlds), I tried to incorporate those ideas into the races. On top of their love of puns and cringe-inducing humor, Dralasites also love shape-humor. Basically, they would see a flexible tube on the deck in a odd position and would chuckle over it as the other races roll their eyes. (This was likely removed to the fact that it would result in a lot of cheep phallic jokes.) Yazarians were originally conceived as being "like moody, angsty teenagers, being more emotional than the more tempered Dralasites" and as such Yazarians are impulse and have explosive anger issues. Mind you, Dralasites and Yazarians where meant to be emotional-vs-intellectual foils for each other. The Vrusk's love of beauty goes beyond just collecting shinny stuff: Originally, they where prone to fly in an "artistic rage" over anything that is an affront to their sense of esthetics, causing the Vrusk to destroy or deface the offending object. (This was likely removed to the fact that it also included people.) Where the Vrusk were originally conceived as being group-oriented to a fault, the S'sessu are competitive, self-centered and social-anarchists by nature. Basically, they are like the smug, amoral reverse-ouroboros worms of Ayn Rand's Objectivist "philosophy". Just like how the complex society of the Vrusk gives them the comprehension to figure out the dealings of a groups or people, the S'sessu have the insight to determine someones strengths and weaknesses.
In one case, I used the races in an old-timey "Rocket Rangers" type adventure, where there was limited contact between the races beforehand. It was fun! Everyone had rayguns and dressed in WWI aviator suits. Spacesuits looking like old diving suits. The Poly-Vox translator looked like a bulky WWI Bombercrew radio chest-set with funnel microphone and cartage-slots for additional languages. Everything was so retro!
So, whet are your experiences with Star Frontiers?
|
|
|
Post by randyb on Oct 2, 2018 17:00:28 GMT -5
I wanted it to be "D&D rules in space", and it wasn't. My expectations did not match the released product, so I was never interested after that.
|
|
|
Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 8:55:47 GMT -5
I remember when my younger brother got the Star Frontiers set. We had been playing D&D and were excited to see "the space version". Unfortunately, our reaction was pretty meh. It felt "off" and I believe the dumbing down for kids mentioned above was the culprit. The game set on a shelf for years at a time. I would pull it out a few times and start going through it again but I still got the same meh vibes. We never did play more than the opening scenario. The rules weren't great. I do like much of the stuff that the fan community has done.
|
|
|
Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:10:24 GMT -5
I remember when my younger brother got the Star Frontiers set. We had been playing D&D and were excited to see "the space version". Unfortunately, our reaction was pretty meh. It felt "off" and I believe the dumbing down for kids mentioned above was the culprit. The game set on a shelf for years at a time. I would pull it out a few times and start going through it again but I still got the same meh vibes. We never did play more than the opening scenario. The rules weren't great. I do like much of the stuff that the fan community has done. From what I have seen down in the pbp area, it would have been a tough go to compete with Traveller even if it had been more what you were expecting.
|
|
|
Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 10:14:06 GMT -5
I remember when my younger brother got the Star Frontiers set. We had been playing D&D and were excited to see "the space version". Unfortunately, our reaction was pretty meh. It felt "off" and I believe the dumbing down for kids mentioned above was the culprit. The game set on a shelf for years at a time. I would pull it out a few times and start going through it again but I still got the same meh vibes. We never did play more than the opening scenario. The rules weren't great. I do like much of the stuff that the fan community has done. From what I have seen down in the pbp area, it would have been a tough go to compete with Traveller even if it had been more what you were expecting. Agreed! Traveller has always caught my eye. I wish I could have gotten a game together. I remember the little black books. I had a lot of fun generating characters and reading about the universe.
|
|
|
Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:18:14 GMT -5
From what I have seen down in the pbp area, it would have been a tough go to compete with Traveller even if it had been more what you were expecting. Agreed! Traveller has always caught my eye. I wish I could have gotten a game together. I remember the little black books. I had a lot of fun generating characters and reading about the universe. I had never seen Traveller until a few years ago, someone asked to start a play by post here. I hope someday to have enough time to commit to get into a game. Although the guys I am gaming with right now IRL (virtually) have talked about running a Traveller game when the 5E game I'm playing in runs it course.
|
|
|
Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 10:23:20 GMT -5
Agreed! Traveller has always caught my eye. I wish I could have gotten a game together. I remember the little black books. I had a lot of fun generating characters and reading about the universe. I had never seen Traveller until a few years ago, someone asked to start a play by post here. I hope someday to have enough time to commit to get into a game. Although the guys I am gaming with right now IRL (virtually) have talked about running a Traveller game when the 5E game I'm playing in runs it course. Cool! I think I'm going to buy up some Traveller stuff. I have looked at the massive latest version of Traveller from Marc Miller and it looks like it packs quite a bit of info inside. I've heard good things about Mongoose Traveller but I never bit the bullet. I did have GURPS Traveller but I never got to play it either. Wound up getting rid of it. I do have volume 1 of the Classic Traveller reprints somewhere...
|
|
|
Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 10:27:25 GMT -5
I had never seen Traveller until a few years ago, someone asked to start a play by post here. I hope someday to have enough time to commit to get into a game. Although the guys I am gaming with right now IRL (virtually) have talked about running a Traveller game when the 5E game I'm playing in runs it course. Cool! I think I'm going to buy up some Traveller stuff. I have looked at the massive latest version of Traveller from Marc Miller and it looks like it packs quite a bit of info inside. I've heard good things about Mongoose Traveller but I never bit the bullet. I did have GURPS Traveller but I never got to play it either. Wound up getting rid of it. I do have volume 1 of the Classic Traveller reprints somewhere... My friend that is reffing right now has Classic Traveller and that's what we would play. That is mostly what is being played down in the play by post. Speaking of gaming I have to get ready for my 5E game, catch you later.
|
|
|
Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 10:35:58 GMT -5
Cool! I think I'm going to buy up some Traveller stuff. I have looked at the massive latest version of Traveller from Marc Miller and it looks like it packs quite a bit of info inside. I've heard good things about Mongoose Traveller but I never bit the bullet. I did have GURPS Traveller but I never got to play it either. Wound up getting rid of it. I do have volume 1 of the Classic Traveller reprints somewhere... My friend that is reffing right now has Classic Traveller and that's what we would play. That is mostly what is being played down in the play by post. Speaking of gaming I have to get ready for my 5E game, catch you later. Cool! Good gaming to you!!
|
|
|
Post by The Perilous Dreamer on May 29, 2021 19:35:49 GMT -5
My friend that is reffing right now has Classic Traveller and that's what we would play. That is mostly what is being played down in the play by post. Speaking of gaming I have to get ready for my 5E game, catch you later. Cool! Good gaming to you!! That was a blast today. We have been having good luck tracking the wondering monsters back to their lairs recently. We are taking forever to get to where we are going because we keep having encounters and then we follow up and loot the lair too. Funny, in 5E the monsters are beefed up the way I did back in the 70s, they give huge bonuses to hit, but it is still harder to hit than in OD&D (no supplements) with no bonuses and then healing is on steroids. I haven't seen the tables, but I get the feeling there is more disparity between the monsters chance to hit and the PCs chance to hit, than there is in OD&D. The monsters always were better at the same hit dice, but I have the impression they are even better now.
|
|
|
Post by The Semi-Retired Gamer on May 29, 2021 21:19:22 GMT -5
Cool! Good gaming to you!! That was a blast today. We have been having good luck tracking the wondering monsters back to their lairs recently. We are taking forever to get to where we are going because we keep having encounters and then we follow up and loot the lair too. Funny, in 5E the monsters are beefed up the way I did back in the 70s, they give huge bonuses to hit, but it is still harder to hit than in OD&D (no supplements) with no bonuses and then healing is on steroids. I haven't seen the tables, but I get the feeling there is more disparity between the monsters chance to hit and the PCs chance to hit, than there is in OD&D. The monsters always were better at the same hit dice, but I have the impression they are even better now. I like what you are describing above. I have the core 5E books but I haven't gotten a game together yet. I caught a sale at Vintage Stock that had all books buy 2 get 1 free so I snagged the core books and went to the counter. I asked to make sure and they responded that it included all book even the D&D rulebooks. I bought them and some character sheets. For me, it seems like 5E is the best WOTC D&D.
|
|
|
Post by raikenclw on Aug 7, 2021 19:10:53 GMT -5
I have SF:NH but have never actually played it. I have used the Dralasite race as a Minor Race in my version of Traveller [somebody wanted to play a race based off the old Stretch Armstrong toy]. I have also used the deckplans of the Assault Scout as a PC buggy (slightly modified - ladders not elevators, as hits in combat could easily render an elevator shaft warped beyond use).
|
|
|
Post by raikenclw on Aug 7, 2021 19:12:36 GMT -5
Malcadon: If you're still around these parts (post dates from 2018), you might want to edit a bit. You probably meant to write "worm-based" rather than "worN-based."
|
|