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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 26, 2018 16:25:31 GMT -5
I think your Fantasy Sandbox series is quite intimidating to most people. I am glad I did not see it before I started reffing. Now a year into reffing, now at that point I was ready for it, shame it was not around back then in the spring of 76 after I had my first 500 hours of reffing under my belt. What intimidating about it?  I gotten a lot of feedback over the years so I am curious where yours fall. For starters for me is the fact that I can not draw and the whole first part in the main outline batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-make-fantasy-sandbox.html is all drawing. Then we come to this Now I never wrote a paper all the way through school until I got to college. At that point in my life 10,000 words would have been daunting. 1,000 words in two hours would have been a mountaintop at that point in time. Of course back then reading the list of 34 items and then seeing this at the bottom of the page, Would have had me doubting if I could do it or not. But once I had be reffing and creating about 500 hours of game time, and having written a bunch of college papers by that time also, it would no longer have looked so daunting as it would have early in the year. Four years later, it would have been old hat, except for the drawing, I still can not draw and my maps are very, very rough. |
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Post by robertsconley on Jun 26, 2018 21:28:14 GMT -5
I can't draw either but squiggly lines I can do. Just take a piece of paper and draw a blob in the middle. You got yourself an island. Draw some squiggly lines from the center of the island out to the boarder. You got some rivers. Or use one of the numerous auto generators that are floating around on the net. It doesn't have to be elegant to be usable. I can draw maps professionally because I am clever about using my tools and/or software. If I work at it maybe I can get something like the below but that about the limit of my ability and that by tracing over a mannequin figure found on the GURPS character sheet.  This map below is good enough  Then we come to thisNow I never wrote a paper all the way through school until I got to college. At that point in my life 10,000 words would have been daunting. 1,000 words in two hours would have been a mountaintop at that point in time. If you think of it as a paper to be written in one go sure. My time estimate is for folks who want to go all out and get it done. But most people just add stuff in bits and pieces. The thing is you are doing this anyway. I am propose a way (there are others) of organizing the time and writing you are already putting in. I got crates, folders, and hard drive filled with tens of thousand of words of material I written but that over 40 years years added together. So it never felt like a chore putting it together. But once I had be reffing and creating about 500 hours of game time, and having written a bunch of college papers by that time also, it would no longer have looked so daunting as it would have early in the year. Four years later, it would have been old hat, except for the drawing, I still can not draw and my maps are very, very rough. Perhaps, the post are not polished and your comment is not the first feedback I gotten like this. It not common that I get a complaint that it is hard for a novice to follow but it happens. The most common is the hours I estimated to complete the list. People don't believe it takes that long and involves so many words. But I written a half dozen setting using this procedure. And every step is something I seen people asked for help about or seen referee add to their campaign. It just rare to see broken out the way I did. But if add up all the time folks spend messing around with the campaigns it adds up. Another aspect of my posts is that they assume you doing it all yourself. Most people sub in material from other sources for one or more of the stuff. If you do that it save considerable time. Again something I will need to add to polished version for publication. For example using Greyhawk for the first several steps and picking a region out of it to detail. Instead of detailing a city, they use Judges Guild Modron and go from there. Your observations and criticism are warranted. However one thing I am trying to do is say here are the brass tacks of what it takes and the time that it takes it. In the fullness of time it is my hope that I will document enough shortcuts and alternative to make a useful tool kit for somebody to make a setting regardless of how much or or how little time they have for the hobby. |
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Post by Admin Pete on Jun 26, 2018 22:05:32 GMT -5
This map below is good enough That would be one of my very best efforts. Perhaps, the post are not polished and your comment is not the first feedback I gotten like this. It not common that I get a complaint that it is hard for a novice to follow but it happens. The most common is the hours I estimated to complete the list. People don't believe it takes that long and involves so many words. But I written a half dozen setting using this procedure. And every step is something I seen people asked for help about or seen referee add to their campaign. It just rare to see broken out the way I did. But if add up all the time folks spend messing around with the campaigns it adds up. Another aspect of my posts is that they assume you doing it all yourself. Most people sub in material from other sources for one or more of the stuff. If you do that it save considerable time. Again something I will need to add to polished version for publication. For example using Greyhawk for the first several steps and picking a region out of it to detail. Instead of detailing a city, they use Judges Guild Modron and go from there. Your observations and criticism are warranted. However one thing I am trying to do is say here are the brass tacks of what it takes and the time that it takes it. In the fullness of time it is my hope that I will document enough shortcuts and alternative to make a useful tool kit for somebody to make a setting regardless of how much or or how little time they have for the hobby. 1. Not hard to follow, it is more that to a novice it looks like such a massive amount of work, it looks like way more than you need to start, it looks like I'll never get enough down to start playing. Suggestion break it down into Beginner (a let us get your feet wet) where they do certain things then rinse and repeat, Intermediate (let us step it up a notch) where they start expanding and fleshing things out and Advanced (Let us build a world) where you throw everything and the kitchen sink at them. Break it down so they can do enough to start playing, but stay ahead of the players most of the time. A companion document on Improvisation so that if the players so choose they can go off the map and the game does not have to grind to a halt because the ref has prepared for just such an eventuality. 2. Don't change the assumption that they are doing all of of it themselves, teach them old school. In an Appendix teach them how to borrow and make it there own in the borrowing. 3. A very valuable thing would be Tips for thinking outside the box, boxes in other dimensions, differently shaped boxes, boxes that are sideways in time, etc. 4. Direct them to non-fiction sources of inspiration. 5. ... 6. ... And so on And so forth |
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Post by Q Man on Jun 26, 2018 22:25:09 GMT -5
Do you work out phases of the moon(s) (assuming you have one or more moons)? Or calculate eclipses? That is the kind of thing, that it would be fun to have, but the players would probably never get more than a comment here or there, so do you go into that kind of detail or just fudge some things? I don't think I would want to learn the math at this point in my life, so some things I would probably not do with an rigor. Of the 2000 pages, how much is published? I have indeed worked out the planetary spheres and the moon. I have no need for mathematical method due to the emphasis on their cosmological histories and happenings thorughout myth and legend, so I really do not need to bring forward what fictional astrologers "know" as far as science goes, I only need to concentrate on the "strange cosmic matter " that they foretell of and track. Pages published? Oh, about 250 I guess spread here and there. Pragmatic and effective use of time, and it does the design work that translates to game play. |
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Post by Q Man on Jun 26, 2018 22:34:52 GMT -5
What do you mean by preserving the setting? BTW, I don't consider players knocking off a King or starting a Thieves Guild to be trashing my setting, that is interacting and playing within the parameters of the game. A big part of preserving the setting is to not allow modern ideas and principles into the game on my end. If we are playing a medieval game the NPCs follow those guidelines. If I create a hardrule that dictates that citizenship must be purchased and comes with specific responsibilities, that is the way it is. That is a condition of the game. I hope this answers your question Q Man Yeah, that is what I wanted to know and it is good to know that you are not using preserving in the sense that most people use it. |
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Post by Bartholmew Quarrels on Jun 28, 2018 8:22:40 GMT -5
I am going to go with this, start small bottom up and get a feel for DMing and what you like, then go back and start designing TOP DOWN, but I wouldn't do that as the first effort. There is a learning curve, so pay your dues before you invest in a large effort. Then when you do the large effort, you'll get something you want to keep.
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